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CA thinking about legalizing pot for tax purposes...

sanjuro

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Sep 13, 2004
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Calif. tax officials: Legal pot would bring $1.4B
By MARCUS WOHLSEN, Associated Press Writer Marcus Wohlsen, Associated Press Writer
Wed Jul 15, 9:14 pm ET

SAN FRANCISCO – A bill to tax and regulate marijuana in California like alcohol would generate nearly $1.4 billion in revenue for the cash-strapped state, according to an official analysis released Wednesday by tax officials.

The State Board of Equalization report estimates marijuana retail sales would bring $990 million from a $50-per-ounce fee and $392 million in sales taxes.

The bill introduced by San Francisco Democratic Assemblyman Tom Ammiano in February would allow adults 21 and older to legally possess, grow and sell marijuana.

Ammiano has promoted the bill as a way to help bridge the state's $26.3 billion budget shortfall.

"It defies reason to propose closing parks and eliminating vital services for the poor while this potential revenue is available," Ammiano said in a statement.

The way the bill is written, the state could not begin collecting taxes until the federal government legalizes marijuana. A spokesman says Ammiano plans to amend the bill to remove that provision.

The legislation requires all revenue generated by the $50-per-ounce fee to be used for drug education and rehabilitation programs. The state's 9 percent sales tax would be applied to retail sales, while the fee would likely be charged at the wholesale level and built into the retail price.

The Equalization Board used law enforcement and academic studies to calculate that about 16 million ounces — or 500 tons — of marijuana are consumed in California each year.

Marijuana use would likely increase by about 30 percent once the law took effect because legalization would lead to falling prices, the board said.

Estimates of marijuana use, cultivation and sales are notoriously difficult to come by because of the drug's status as a black-market substance. Calculations by marijuana advocates and law enforcement officials often differ widely.

"That's one reason why we look at multiple reports from multiple sources — so that no one agenda is considered to be the deciding or determining data," said board spokeswoman Anita Gore.

Advocates and opponents do agree that California is by far the country's top pot-producing state. Last year law enforcement agencies in California seized nearly 5.3 million plants.

If passed, Ammiano's bill could increase the tension between the state and the U.S. government over marijuana, which is banned outright under federal law. The two sides have clashed often since state voters passed a ballot measure in 1996 legalizing marijuana for medical use.

At the same time, some medical marijuana dispensary operators in the state have said they are less fearful of federal raids since U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder said the Justice Department would defer to state marijuana regulations.

Advocates pounced on the analysis as ammunition for their claim that the ban on marijuana is obsolete.

"We can't borrow or slash our way out of this deficit," said Stephen Gutwillig, California state director of the Drug Policy Alliance. "The legislature must consider innovative sources of new revenue, and marijuana should be at the top of that list."

Ammiano's bill is still in committee. Hearings on the legislation are expected this fall.

Also Wednesday, three Los Angeles City Council members proposed taxing medical marijuana to help close the city's budget gap.

Council members Janice Hahn, Dennis Zine and Bill Rosendahl backed a motion asking city finance officials to explore taxing the drug.

Hahn said that with more than 400 dispensaries operating in the city, the tax could generate significant revenue. The motion pointed out that a proposed tax increase on medical marijuana in Oakland, which has only four dispensaries, was projected to bring in more than $300,000 in 2010.

Meanwhile, marijuana supporters have taken the first official step toward putting the legalization question directly to California voters.

A trio of Northern California criminal defense attorneys on Wednesday submitted a pot legalization measure to the state attorney general's office, which must provide an official summary before supporters can begin gathering signatures.

About 443,000 signatures are necessary to place The Tax, Regulate and Control Cannabis Act on the November 2010 ballot. The measure would repeal all state and local laws that criminalize marijuana.
 

jonKranked

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Nov 10, 2005
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What isn't mentioned in the article is the additional amount of money the state will save if it's legalized. They will save money by not prosecuting people for pot related infractions, they will save even more money (and free up space) by not having to imprison those found guilty of pot crimes.

A lot of numbers I've seen indicate that the amount saved by getting pot only crimes out of the judicial/penal system will be greater than the amount of revenue they'll generate by taxing it. This would give a greater overall impact on the budget deficit.
 

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
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As much as I am against drugs in general, this is a good thing. If they actually allow growth of Hemp for fibers (see clothing and paper), the cash vaule of the product would go ballistic, while saving trees (see more C02 reduction), and using less water that Cotton.
I'd put $$ that the major opponents to this proposition will be pharma, farmers, loggers, and lumber interests.
 

sanjuro

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Sep 13, 2004
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SF
Considering approximate 4/5ths of them already live there, it shouldn't be a huge change. :D
Thank god you live in Tennessee. With all the Dale Jr t-shirts, Amerikan flags, bbq stains, and the duo of Churches/Strip Clubs, you're all set.
 

jonKranked

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Nov 10, 2005
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As much as I am against drugs in general, this is a good thing. If they actually allow growth of Hemp for fibers (see clothing and paper), the cash vaule of the product would go ballistic, while saving trees (see more C02 reduction), and using less water that Cotton.
I'd put $$ that the major opponents to this proposition will be pharma, farmers, loggers, and lumber interests.
The hemp used for fibers is actually from a different strain of the plant (which I believe is still legal to grow, as the THC content is negligible, you'd get sick from the smoke before you ever got the slightest buzz).

I doubt pharma would be against this. If anything, they would be ones to invest in it. A single plant/chemical/extract that treats a wide range of chronic illnesses, pains, symptoms, and ailments? What else does that? Let's see now, Penicillin, acetaminophen, Diazepam, etc. Familiar with Marinol? Synthetic THC. Already on the market.

Why would farmers be against it? It's a crop that can be grown annually, is rather resilient, and has a high potential profit.
 

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
21,596
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Colorado
The hemp used for fibers is actually from a different strain of the plant (which I believe is still legal to grow, as the THC content is negligible, you'd get sick from the smoke before you ever got the slightest buzz).

I doubt pharma would be against this. If anything, they would be ones to invest in it. A single plant/chemical/extract that treats a wide range of chronic illnesses, pains, symptoms, and ailments? What else does that? Let's see now, Penicillin, acetaminophen, Diazepam, etc. Familiar with Marinol? Synthetic THC. Already on the market.

Why would farmers be against it? It's a crop that can be grown annually, is rather resilient, and has a high potential profit.
Hemp is a different plant, but illegal to grow in the US. Thank the cotton and lumber lobbies.

Pharma can use MJ as a source of developing new drugs already. Their issue is that people will use it instead of their drugs for common ailments. Revenues lost.

Farmers? Imagine that you have a large crop of cotton, your equipment is all setup for harvesting cotton. Due to the costs of entry to this crop, the barriers to entry prevent a lot of others from growing it and increasing supply. This keeps your prices high.
Now imagine that a crop that does the exact same thing your crop does, but with far less overhead, that takes less water, has less impact on the soil (see less fertilizers), and grows faster, is made available. What will happen to the demand for your product?
Exactly. Entrenched interests will always try to prevent new, more efficient growth.
 

jonKranked

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Nov 10, 2005
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Hemp is a different plant, but illegal to grow in the US. Thank the cotton and lumber lobbies.
It is legal in Europe though. And I do remember now that they were the ones who lobbied against it.

Pharma can use MJ as a source of developing new drugs already.
Only in somewhat limited manner. To the best of my knowledge, all Marijuana for research has to be obtained through the NIDA (that is, if they are obtaining it legally), which only has one growing facility. There are plenty of ways around this though; the whole system has become somewhat farcical.

Their issue is that people will use it instead of their drugs for common ailments. Revenues lost.
Not if they are the ones growing/supplying it (or at the very least have a stake in the companies that do). Even if we see it legalized in the next decade, it will take much longer for the taboo's associated with it to dissipate. Older generations would probably still a more old fashioned pill than a joint.


Farmers? Imagine that you have a large crop of cotton, your equipment is all setup for harvesting cotton. Due to the costs of entry to this crop, the barriers to entry prevent a lot of others from growing it and increasing supply. This keeps your prices high.
Now imagine that a crop that does the exact same thing your crop does, but with far less overhead, that takes less water, has less impact on the soil (see less fertilizers), and grows faster, is made available. What will happen to the demand for your product?
Exactly. Entrenched interests will always try to prevent new, more efficient growth.

It's a short term vs long term discussion here. Yes it would be a high initial cost, but over a long term it would be cheaper. If the cotton companies don't invest in it, someone else will. They could stick with cotton, and risk eventually being put out of business by the competition (hemp), or they could diversify and reap the benefits (profits, long term) of it.

Its somewhat of a similar situation in the oil industry. Oil isn't the best fuel/energy source out there, but oil companies are entrenched in that infrastructure. However, there is only a finite amount of oil on this planet, and it is quickly dwindling. Newer energy sources are developing (solar, wind, tidal, even geothermal, and to a certain degree nuclear) which are going to have to step in when the oil runs out. The way I see it, oil companies have 2 options: start investing in the newer energy sources now to ensure long term survival and viability, or refuse to explore new means of providing energy, and go under when the oil runs out.
 

Pesqueeb

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Feb 2, 2007
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If Mary Jane is made legal, what happens if your in a DOT sensitive position? Would it be okay to roll a doobie on the weekend and then go drive a school bus during the week?

I'm all for the legalization of pot simply based on the economics of tax revenue + prison cost savings stated above. The war on drugs = fail.
 

jonKranked

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Nov 10, 2005
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If Mary Jane is made legal, what happens if your in a DOT sensitive position? Would it be okay to roll a doobie on the weekend and then go drive a school bus during the week?
This is a good question. Would it be treated the same as alcohol? That is, its ok to indulge when you're off the clock and it doesn't interfere with your job performance?

I'm sure some private companies would still can someone for it though.
 

Silver

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Jul 20, 2002
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If Mary Jane is made legal, what happens if your in a DOT sensitive position? Would it be okay to roll a doobie on the weekend and then go drive a school bus during the week?
Why not?

You can always administer a saliva test to determine if the bus driver is high behind the wheel. If he was high last night, that's not going to affect his skills behind the wheel when he picks up your brat in the morning...
 

laura

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Jul 16, 2002
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This is a good question. Would it be treated the same as alcohol? That is, its ok to indulge when you're off the clock and it doesn't interfere with your job performance?

I'm sure some private companies would still can someone for it though.
It's my understanding that even if it is legal, your company can make you pass drug tests to work there. Since pot won't rinse out after a couple of days like an alcohol bender would, you would have to be very quiet and wll behaved if you were using off the clock.
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
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TN
Id like to see this happen.

Not really because I care whether or not people are allowed to smoke, but just to watch the fallout really. Some hilarity would no doubt ensue.
 

AngryMetalsmith

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Jun 4, 2006
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I saw an interview with a some DEA official about the legalization of hemp some time ago. He said that since hemp contains a tiny amount of THC, even though it's not enough to produce a buzz, it qualifies as a controlled substance. He said for it to be legalized that it would have to be reclassified as non-controlled substance.



Twenty years ago or so there was a guy that went through all the bureaucratic red tape to become a legal hemp grower and set up a facility to experiment with it's uses. He was able to manufacture an alternative building material that could be generated in a few months. It takes 25 years for a pine tree to mature enough to yield a few 2x4s. Without any warning his permits were pulled and he was shut down. It's probable that the lumber industry had something to do with it.
 

jonKranked

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It's my understanding that even if it is legal, your company can make you pass drug tests to work there. Since pot won't rinse out after a couple of days like an alcohol bender would, you would have to be very quiet and wll behaved if you were using off the clock.
I believe that when they do perform drug tests, they are testing for illegal drugs. If marijuana is no longer illegal, would the presence of it in a urine analysis still constitute a failure?
 

X3pilot

Texans fan - LOL
Aug 13, 2007
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Probably way more if they had to let all the people in prison out who were jailed for dealing/smoking the stuff. They could probably lay off half the guards.
That won't happen because the union representing prison guards in CA is one of the top 3 most powerful political lobbies and has it's own PAC. That's why CA has some of the toughest and longest sentencing guidelines and will not repeal 3 strikes. More prisoners in jail=more prison guards.

Unions are another factor. The prisons employ 33,000 people, including the nation's highest-paid correctional officers. The unions are a powerful political force, backing ballot measures for longer sentencing and punishment, for example.
NPR story
 

bohorec

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Jun 26, 2007
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If that's going to happen, you'll have a bunch of bored officers tazing random drivers all over the country.:D