Quantcast

Café: Children 'Have To Behave'

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
29,683
2,394
Portland, OR
As a parent, I agree 100%.

Link

Dan McCauley had seen one too many kids at his cafe lying on the floor in front of the counter, careening off the glass pastry case, coming perilously close to getting their fingers pinched in the front door. So he posted a sign: "Children of all ages have to behave and use their indoor voices."

To him, it was a simple reminder to parents to keep an eye on their children and set some limits. But to some parents in his North Side Chicago neighborhood, the sign may as well have read, "If you have kids, you're not welcome."

That one little notice, adorned with pastel hand prints, has become a lightning rod in a larger debate over parenting and misbehaving children.

"It's not about the kids," says McCauley, the 44-year-old owner of A Taste of Heaven cafe, who has no children but claims to like them a lot. "It's about the parents who are with them. Are they supervising and guiding them?

"I'm just asking that they are considerate to people around them."

While he has created some enemies in his neighborhood, McCauley has received hundreds of calls and more than 600 letters, the overwhelming majority of them supportive. One letter-writer from Alabama typed out in bold letters: "In my opinion, you're a hero! Keep it up."

It is a sentiment that people feel increasingly comfortable expressing. Online bloggers regularly make impassioned pleas for child-free zones in public, while e-mailers have been forwarding a photograph of a sign in an unidentified business that reads, "Unattended Children Will Be Given an Espresso and a Puppy."

While it is common policy for upscale restaurants to bar children, owners of other types of businesses also are setting limits on kids.

The Wynn Hotel in Las Vegas, for instance, does not allow visitors who aren't guests to have strollers; hotel officials say it is to prevent crashes with other pedestrians. The Bellagio Hotel does not take guests younger than 18 without special permission.

Some parents are fine with the limit-setting and complain that too many of their peers take their kids to places traditionally meant for adults, such as late-night movies and rock concerts.

Robin Piccini, a 42-year-old mom in Bridgewater, Mass., gets annoyed when she has hired a baby sitter for her daughter, only to end up seated at a restaurant next to unruly kids.

"I am paying the same price so that I can have a relaxing dinner, but because there are lazy parents out there, my dinner has to be stressful and tense," she says. "How fair is that?"
 

skinny mike

Turbo Monkey
Jan 24, 2005
6,416
0
if anything, they need another section added to airplanes to make the flight more enjoyable. first class, coach, and parents with young kids. nothing annoys me more on a flight than a kid who's out of control sitting near me.
 

mcA896

Turbo Monkey
Aug 15, 2003
1,160
0
Cape Cod, MA
More power to them I say! Nothing more un-appetizing than going to the Outback steakhouse only to have the kid next in the booth next to you piss himself because he didn't want to tell his mother he had to go. or the time when the mom hit her young daughter. But, the daughter was painfully loud and obnoxious. Not saying that justifys hitting your child, just 'saying'.


Why do I always get stuck next to a bad family when i go to outback?
 

Tenchiro

Attention K Mart Shoppers
Jul 19, 2002
5,407
0
New England
I remember seeing a sign that said something like "Stray children will be given espresso and puppies." I always thought that was funny.

Personaly l I would rather just see misbehaving kids get beaten in public by exasperated parents.
 

narlus

Eastcoast Softcore
Staff member
Nov 7, 2001
24,659
26
behind the viewfinder
it was very common in irish pubs and restaurants to have signs such as:

"no buggies" (irish parlance for strollers)
"children are to be supervised by parents at all times"
"no children allowed after 7PM"

it wasn't hard to take the hint.

not saying that yr kids should run rampant and be a nuisance, but they don't need to be put into shackles either. it was a nice change of pace to visit sweden and denmark where kids were actually recognized as members of society.

for the person bitching about the unruly kids at a FAMILY restaurant like Outback, suck it up princess.
 

Zark

Hey little girl, do you want some candy?
Oct 18, 2001
6,257
7
Reno 911
Props to that guy. When I worked at a bike shop I was utterly astonished at how unruly people's kids would get. Running in the shop, riding bikes in the shop, touching everything (when told not to), screaming, crying, the works. I like kids, but parents need to be in controlof em.
 

mcA896

Turbo Monkey
Aug 15, 2003
1,160
0
Cape Cod, MA
But honestly, who wants to deal with the smell of piss in a restaurant? And hitting a kid for any reason, is out of line.
 

narlus

Eastcoast Softcore
Staff member
Nov 7, 2001
24,659
26
behind the viewfinder
gnurider1080 said:
if anything, they need another section added to airplanes to make the flight more enjoyable. first class, coach, and parents with young kids. nothing annoys me more on a flight than a kid who's out of control sitting near me.
believe me, it's no picnic for the parents either; we'd much rather be on our 2nd beer and deep into a book or magazine, rather than trying to keep yr kid amused and/or stop kicking the seat in front of them, or stop crying...travelling w/ kids on a plane is one of the more stressful things i can think of, but if you gotta go there's no other choice. luckily ours have been through the routine enough where it's a fair non-issue now.

pet peeve - airlines anouncing boarding for people w/ kids or need more time (like elderly, infirm, etc), and then literally 15 seconds later annouce general boarding. this happened all the time on aer lingus. for a culture w/ such large families, the irish do have some funny ideas about children.
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
29,683
2,394
Portland, OR
My daughter thought it was funny when she saw a kid about her age on a leash at Disneyland. She said "Dad, I want to be on a leash like a dog!" I told her if she was a pain in my ass, that's what would happen.

She's way to well behaived for the leash in public stuff.
 

narlus

Eastcoast Softcore
Staff member
Nov 7, 2001
24,659
26
behind the viewfinder
Zark said:
Props to that guy. When I worked at a bike shop I was utterly astonished at how unruly people's kids would get. Running in the shop, riding bikes in the shop, touching everything (when told not to), screaming, crying, the works. I like kids, but parents need to be in controlof em.

there's definitely no excuse for that. the kids are not being taught proper boundaries, and ways to behave. next thing you know, they'll turn into GWB in another decade or two.
 

narlus

Eastcoast Softcore
Staff member
Nov 7, 2001
24,659
26
behind the viewfinder
mcA896 said:
But honestly, who wants to deal with the smell of piss in a restaurant?
no one; what about the smell of puke in a bar? but that never happens either, does it. not saying it's right, just that sometimes people can't hold their liquor or urine.

mcA896 said:
And hitting a kid for any reason, is out of line.
this has been (er) beaten to death. let's start the topic again in PD.
 

mcA896

Turbo Monkey
Aug 15, 2003
1,160
0
Cape Cod, MA
Eh, I didn't realize. I tend to stay out of the PD forum. I think I don't follow politics enough, and I'm too naive. I guess it comes with young age.
 

skinny mike

Turbo Monkey
Jan 24, 2005
6,416
0
narlus said:
believe me, it's no picnic for the parents either; we'd much rather be on our 2nd beer and deep into a book or magazine, rather than trying to keep yr kid amused and/or stop kicking the seat in front of them, or stop crying...travelling w/ kids on a plane is one of the more stressful things i can think of, but if you gotta go there's no other choice. luckily ours have been through the routine enough where it's a fair non-issue now.
i definitely understand where you are coming from, but i guess ive just had a few experiences where it seemed that the parents just didnt care.
 

narlus

Eastcoast Softcore
Staff member
Nov 7, 2001
24,659
26
behind the viewfinder
Tenchiro said:
Dsy ehat you will, but kids used to behave much better when they got regular beatings.
it's a good thing you are in the 'no kids' camp, in my opinion. are you drawing on personal experience?

for the majority of time, my kids behave much better than average, and they've not been hit.
 

Tenchiro

Attention K Mart Shoppers
Jul 19, 2002
5,407
0
New England
narlus said:
it's a good thing you are in the 'no kids' camp, in my opinion. are you drawing on personal experience?

for the majority of time, my kids behave much better than average, and they've not been hit.
Just from what I have seen personally by friends who have kids, read in the news, etc.

But yeah it is good that I don't have any, because I wouldn't stand for it. They would definately get the belt. Hell I have been tempted to beat other peoples kids for them.
 

Velocity Girl

whack-a-mole
Sep 12, 2001
1,279
0
Atlanta
gnurider1080 said:
if anything, they need another section added to airplanes to make the flight more enjoyable. first class, coach, and parents with young kids. nothing annoys me more on a flight than a kid who's out of control sitting near me.
Yes, yes, and yes!!!!!! The only think I can think of that might be worse is the person sitting next to you who is too big for their seat so they squish you or the person with such bad BO it makes you want to puke!
 

-dustin

boring
Jun 10, 2002
7,165
1
austin
nothing like sitting down at happy hour, only to discover you're seating next a mom and five ****ing crying and/ or hyper kids. god damn that's annoying.
 

Andyman_1970

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2003
3,105
5
The Natural State
I agree 100%, nothing aggravates me more than a loud kid in Barnes and Noble or having a fit in the booth next to us.

That said, the times Noah has acted up, he goes straight out to the car no "if's, and's, or but's"..........luckily he's only had a cow in public like once or twice. We try to make sure when we go out it's after he's had a nap and eaten, most parents tend to be oblivious of those things so you have kids that are tired and hungry being dragged all over the place because the parents are too self absorbed..........sorry [rant off]
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,045
0
Towing the party line.
Kids were much better behaved when they were smacked around when they misbehaved...i know this from experience.

Kid misbehaves - tell him to sit in corner, kid laughs. Misbehaves again.

Mid misbehaves - receives smack across the back of the head. Kid recognizes that misbehaving again = more smacking os said head. Kid does not become a repeat offender.
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,045
0
Towing the party line.
Velocity Girl said:
Yes, yes, and yes!!!!!! The only think I can think of that might be worse is the person sitting next to you who is too big for their seat so they squish you or the person with such bad BO it makes you want to puke!
When I flew to london in September i hit the trifecta. Flight was late due to weather. Brittish lady next to me was like 400 lbs..couldn't butter he own dinner roll. Baby in front of me was about 4 weeks old..SCREAMING, and before we even took off (due to weather delay) had already managed to vomit all over her new parents twice.

Who the hell flies with a kid that young?
 

Snacks

Turbo Monkey
Feb 20, 2003
3,524
0
GO! SEAHAWKS!
PsychO!1 said:
Is it the unruly kids that get beat, or the kids that get beat are unruly?

I find the parents that beat there kids have little self control, which is usually passed on to the kids. A vicious circle.
I wasn't beat as a child, but I was spanked with a wooden spoon. If Kev and I ever have kids we are raises them the same....we turned out perfect:p
 

narlus

Eastcoast Softcore
Staff member
Nov 7, 2001
24,659
26
behind the viewfinder
Transcend said:
Kid misbehaves - tell him to sit in corner, kid laughs. Misbehaves again.
if you can't find a way to affect your child's behavior that doesn't involve hitting them, then you suck at being a parent.

Transcend said:
Mid misbehaves - receives smack across the back of the head. Kid recognizes that misbehaving again = more smacking os said head. Kid does not become a repeat offender.
or...child learns that hitting is OK and solves problems.
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,007
149
The Cleft of Venus
narlus said:
if you can't find a way to affect your child's behavior that doesn't involve hitting them, then you suck at being a parent.



or...child learns that hitting is OK and solves problems.

Spanking is not hitting.
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
21,667
417
NC
narlus said:
if you can't find a way to affect your child's behavior that doesn't involve hitting them, then you suck at being a parent.
:stupid:

I don't necessarily think that a spanking is totally inappropriate - many parents raise their kids well that way - but relying on hitting your kids as a discipline method is pretty much the cowardly way out.

Isn't it great? Just whack 'em. That way, you don't even have to think. No thought process, no curbing of your anger... It's a wonderful thing. Kind of like the husband hitting his wife because he got angry at her. No thought process, just gut-level instinct and physical violence.
 

narlus

Eastcoast Softcore
Staff member
Nov 7, 2001
24,659
26
behind the viewfinder
N8 said:
Spanking is not hitting.
now that's an interesting premise...

i suppose that when most people spank their kids, they cry. is that a fair assumption? and why do they cry? because the cool air has suddenly assaulted their naked buttcheeks and they can't take this new painful sensation? :rolleyes:
 

narlus

Eastcoast Softcore
Staff member
Nov 7, 2001
24,659
26
behind the viewfinder
Transcend said:
Gimme a break. Kids cry when you turn off the TV. Kids cry when you tell them no more ice cream. Kids cry when you don't buy thenm a GI Joe.
exactly. you are now getting it. well done.

you can use non-violent means to exact the same response.
 

DH Diva

Wonderwoman
Jun 12, 2002
1,808
1
I'm not against kids in public at all. But, like all humans, I expect them to act appropriately, and their parents to supervise them.

A recent macdonalds lawsuit: Young girl (3ish I think) is running around at a macdonalds. Adult patron with tray holding his food and a cup of coffee, walk from the counter and around the counter. Young girl comes around same corner and plows into his knees. He trips and spills his food and coffee on the child. Child is burned. Parents are sueing the man and macdonalds for negligence. They obviously didn't think there was anything wrong with letting their child run around a public restaurant with out supervision. Escencially, others should "watch out" for their kid, but they don't have to "watch" their kid in public.

This is a parental attitude I don't agree with.
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,045
0
Towing the party line.
narlus said:
exactly. you are now getting it. well done.

you can use non-violent means to exact the same response.
Ya, sure. My mom works in an elementary school of 600+ kids as an administrator.

There have been 20 pencil stabbings alone this year - not to mention the screaming, swearing, bite-ing (sp?), hitting of teachers and staff etc etc.

40% of the kids here have been in SERIOUS trouble for violent or just unruly behaviour. They are all repeat offenders.

This is in an upper class (think $2 000 000+ houses), predominantly white collar, lawyer parent, beamer driving neighborhood.
 
I have 2 under the age of 4. They have travelled all over the country and eaten at many restaurants and are always perfect.
We are VERY cognisant (spelling?) of our kids and how their behaviour affects others.
We were both raised by parents who occasionally spanked us with apaggle, spoon, brush, whatever. We have both grown up to be normal people.
If you have kids you realize that at certain times there is just simply no reasoning with them. You cannot reason with a tired 3 year old all the time. You can distract them, make them sit in a chair, etc. The counting / time out thing works in most cases, but sometimes not. In those cases it is not unreasonable to smack the kid on the ass. Not hard enough to hurt, but enough to get their attention.
You might say that my parenting sucks, but what do you know. I certainly can say that there are alot of kids that have crappy parents. My parents spanked me and I consider them my heros. My parents also love me, gave me everything I needed to become a successful, HAPPY person. When I think back I laugh at the brush my Mom used to use, but remember the fact that they were great parents.

Besides you want your kid to be some kind of pussy who won't ride a bike because he's afraid of falling and getting a scrape?
 

narlus

Eastcoast Softcore
Staff member
Nov 7, 2001
24,659
26
behind the viewfinder
Transcend said:
Ya, sure. My mom works in an elementary school of 600+ kids as an administrator.

There have been 20 pencil stabbings alone this year - not to mention the screaming, swearing, bite-ing (sp?), hitting of teachers and staff etc etc.

40% of the kids here have been in SERIOUS trouble for violent or just unruly behaviour. They are all repeat offenders.

This is in an upper class (think $2 000 000+ houses), predominantly white collar, lawyer parent, beamer driving neighborhood.
it's interesting that you can divine the child-rearing methods of all these households. what's your secret?
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,045
0
Towing the party line.
narlus said:
it's interesting that you can divine the child-rearing methods of all these households. what's your secret?
Pay attention: I'm saying that no method works with all kids, and no one method ALWAYS works with any particular child. Saying that one method is wrong, or an easy way out, is utter crap.

Once and awhile, a kid needs a smack on the ass to get his attention. No one's kids are perfect little angels, no matter what their parents think.

And for many of them, the parents are such whiney, pathetic hippy, the worlds all rainbows and gumdrops it's frightening.

They come in ranting and raving and threatening to sue because their little angel was sat on a bench in the hallway - or that the school had to call the POLICE to get their child under control and their child should never have been put in a police car.

Granted, the police part is rare, but it's happened 3 or 4 times since September alone.