There's also plenty of people that feel that way about mountain biking.....
California 200: 8 people dead
- Thread starter sanjuro
- Start date
So what? There are people who think we should dam every river and cut down every tree too. Is every opinion of equal value, or are some people just dumbasses?
^ I think you know the answer to that question...
My point exactly. People are less entitled to race in the desert because you don't like it?
People are entitled to tear the **** out of the desert landscape just because they bought a toy and they feel like it?
any different?
There is a matter of scale and wastefulness to consider. How about people who enjoy setting wildfires? Is that any different?
You know who is an even better father? The ones who don't bring their kids and stand them right beside a race course to watch a bunch of amateur drivers.
That's the point. Not everyone who goes out to the desert and rides a dirtbike or races is an a-hole. Same as every other sport...there is always going to be some people that have to have something to bitch about. Just because it's not your cup of tea doesn't mean it should be outlawed.
I feel bad for the daughter that has to grow up without a dad, and he definitely didn't deserve to lose his life, but I think hero would be a loose definition for a guy that decided to stand with his family on the back side of a 50mph jump in the desert....
I didn't call anyone an a-hole, I just said they needlessly thrash the desert (generally public land) for their own amusement. I don't value other people's amusement over the health of the land, or wastefulness in general so it ought to be more regulated IMO.
Ummm...what exactly is the 'health of the land' that you are saving?
Don't pretend to debate something you don't know anything about.
Mostly, while obviously there needs to be a control to prevent this kind of accident, I don't want a bunch of hippie environmental groups involved with my access.
I know that this tragedy means no more rally racing in America. Maybe I am being selfish...
I know that this tragedy means no more rally racing in America. Maybe I am being selfish...
How often have you gone four wheeling in the desert? Do you have any idea what the area is even like there? Do you know why exactly environmental activists are trying to get off road vehicles banned from the dunes?
There's not much to really destroy, and the difference between OHV designated areas and the rest of the desert isn't that huge after a strong wind or winter flooding.
Thank you. It's like the people pissing on mountain biking that have never ridden one. You want to 'save the environment', but you have no idea from what.
That's not going to be the ultimate issue. It's going to be, as always, insurance.
Guys, there is plenty of information out there about the type of environmental degradation this stuff causes. Don't play dumb and don't act as if Im dumb. The fact of the matter is there is a value judgement involved, and I personally don't think the costs (which affect everyone since it's public land) associated are worth the benefits (to only a few). Your right to go waste money, petroleum and thrash sh*t is worth nothing to me.
Yep. Burly- to answer one of my own questions: Activists want to close down designated OHV areas in the dunes because these are endangered:
These little plants are few and far between OUTSIDE of OHV areas because the dunes are hot and there's no water. They're endangered because 110* sand dunes are sort of hard on vegetation in the summer time.
The best part about all this? The race didn't even take place in the dunes, but because all these people are "off roaders" and sand dunes get crazy on big weekends with lots of crazy drunk fools then by default people at an organized race in the desert must also be the same sort of off roaders who drive around crazy and drunk.
While I don't get to go to many any more because I live too far north, I hope this accident doesn't mean the end of racing in California or even the end of the MDR series. It's sort of the last great frontier for people to witness how hecktic, difficult and unpredictable desert racing can be. Those who are fans and those who do compete are extremely passionate about their sport for just that reason and most understand the risks they're taking.
Anyone who's doesn't quite get it should watch a documentary called Dust To Glory. It's on netflix.
There will always be a little taste of hypocrisy in this kind of debate. Mountain bikers are usually well-served to promote multi-use access, even if that means letting in some users we don't like. But come on, generally there is a big difference between the impact of mountain bikes vs. motorsports in the wilderness, especially 4X4. In addition to actual physical impact, you also have noise, increased fire potential, danger to others, and other things that make it much harder to co-exist.
Anyway, it sucks that this happened. I agree that the spectators should use a little more common sense and move the heck back. Either that or be willing to accept the fact that they are taking just as much risk as the drivers (maybe more) if they get up there.
Anyway, it sucks that this happened. I agree that the spectators should use a little more common sense and move the heck back. Either that or be willing to accept the fact that they are taking just as much risk as the drivers (maybe more) if they get up there.
Who cares if we waste gas since we're all switching to 100% green and renewable energy right? Some day maybe we'll all be racing on Zero MXs...
And there are still debates raging in a court of law about whether or not certain places are actually getting "thrashed" so this issue isn't as cut and dry as your non-desert visiting self seems to think it is.
OG- There's not much to burn out there, or really any one else you could possible bother with noise.
I'm going to go ahead and just toss it out there, but I personally don't think the costs of your job as a public employee saving fish (see "my" cost on a large scale) are worth the benefits to me, because I don't care about your fish (your values). I'd figure it safe to assume there are a lot of taxpayers that would agree with me.
Interesting how that works, now isn't it. My values don't line up with your values. I think what is important to you shouldn't exist (ie. your job), because it is not important to me.
Use your logic BS. I know that the green in you immediately makes you tout the party line, but what about logic? Who are you saving the desert for? At least these guys enjoy it, and recreate in the desert. I've seen more done to save deserts from development by moto guys than pretty much any other group. Why is that? Would you rather see a new development go in?
Come to socal, inland valley sometime and lets get your take on the wonders of desert conversion to developments. I sure would rather have motos and a desert than houses.
Some of you guys are mega-douches.
You don't need anyone to play dumb and act as if you are dumb, your stance has been repeatedly challenged with valid arguments and you have ignored them all.
Do me a favor, go walk down a beach and then the next day please find your foot steps.
Now, go drive through the desert and come back a few days later and please follow your exact tracks.
k thanks for playing.
As for those who lost their lives, it's just natural selection, common sense would tell you not to stand that close, and not to put your children in danger. Idiots, everyone of them.
If you go out into the desert alone with no water, you die.
If you go out into the desert to watch truck races and get too fvcking close when one rolls, you die.
If you drink poison in the desert, you die.
If you get attacked by coyotes or scorpions in the desert, you die.
Moral:
Stay out of the desert.
If you go out into the desert to watch truck races and get too fvcking close when one rolls, you die.
If you drink poison in the desert, you die.
If you get attacked by coyotes or scorpions in the desert, you die.
Moral:
Stay out of the desert.
I saw this earlier today but didn't want to comment until I'd thought about it for a while.
My initial reaction was WTF are those idiots doing right on the track... nothing else I've seen or read has changed my mind. Dead or not, people who choose to put themselves in harms way should hold themselves accountable for their decisions. My next thought involved the racers and organizers - what I saw was not safe for the drivers or spectators. To me everyone involved should be held accountable - the racers, spectators and organizers all all equally accountable for the 8 deaths.
My initial reaction was WTF are those idiots doing right on the track... nothing else I've seen or read has changed my mind. Dead or not, people who choose to put themselves in harms way should hold themselves accountable for their decisions. My next thought involved the racers and organizers - what I saw was not safe for the drivers or spectators. To me everyone involved should be held accountable - the racers, spectators and organizers all all equally accountable for the 8 deaths.
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If you drink poison in the desert, you will die. It's true. Of course, drinking poison most anywhere can kill you. If you're in the desert, you also die all hot and uncomfortable. Don't do it.
I feel the same way about people who stick their head in an alligator's mouth or get in a cage with lions or have "domesticated" chimps that rip their face off. If you knew the risks, it's hard to feel sorry for you. I feel sorry for these people's families that they lost a not-so-smart loved one.
I remember years ago driving through the desert with a friend from Chicago. He was totally freaked out. "Look at this! Nothing but nothing for miles. Do we have enough gas? You'd fvcking die in a few hours out here! There's....NOTHING!"
deserts sucks, but desserts rule
Do you really get this upset out of some displaced sand? How about braking bumps and ruts on singletrack? How about miles of cleared out trees for ski runs at resorts?
I've spent more time "tearing the sh!t out of the desert" than you, I guarantee it. And guess what, the desert is pretty f'ing big. There's plenty to go around. If you absolutely cannot stand the sight of desert whoops and fire roads, you can very easily find areas without them.
The amount of land area in the desert open spaces or state/national forests in the state of California that is used OR affected by ORV's is less than .05%. Not 5%, .05%. 5/10,000th's. There might be enough other spots in the desert for you to enjoy without encountering those godawful offroad recreational areas.
Fvcking hippie. I'm sure the Sierra Club would love to welcome you into their eco circle jerk.
Can we stop comparing a mountain bike to an off-road racing vehicle? That's full retard...somewhat like arguing you should be able to rip through a harbor in a cigarette boat at full speed because a sailboat uses it as well.
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Dessert habitat is far more delicate than one would presume, small plant colonies can take decades or even centuries to mature enough to support animal or insect life. I read this in Moab so it must be true.
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