At least as awesome is spending that same money on things that are actually better...
Calling all wheel nerds, normal nerds also welcome
- Thread starter englertracing
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Cost, weight savings, etc. Same reason a car doesn't come with a spare tire anymore.
Oh yeah, Boost. But boost was supposed to make the lateral stiffness of a 29" wheel equal to a 27.5. So still not as inherently stiff as a 26. Need Super Boost and 24 spokes.
well lads, had some issues with a front hub so I'm scrounging the second hand market for a wheel. Just want to double check with the nerds so I don't waste money.
ATM I'm on a mate's spare wheel that has a decent condition formula dhl-92 hub and sun ringle inferno rim. Are these hubs generally worth lacing a new rim to?
I also have an offer for an early 2010s yellow deemax wheel. Proprietary spokes scared me off but tubeless and the good condition is tempting.
These are local to me and are easy to get. I've an eye on some EX729/Hope builds over in the UK if all else fails.
Another is a DT swiss F550 32mm front build. EDIT: did a little bit of digging and the F550 rims are wider/lighter OE versions of DT5.1 rims, which are buttery trash according to the archives here.
ATM I'm on a mate's spare wheel that has a decent condition formula dhl-92 hub and sun ringle inferno rim. Are these hubs generally worth lacing a new rim to?
I also have an offer for an early 2010s yellow deemax wheel. Proprietary spokes scared me off but tubeless and the good condition is tempting.
These are local to me and are easy to get. I've an eye on some EX729/Hope builds over in the UK if all else fails.
Another is a DT swiss F550 32mm front build. EDIT: did a little bit of digging and the F550 rims are wider/lighter OE versions of DT5.1 rims, which are buttery trash according to the archives here.
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If the mavics deemax in question are based on the 823 rim, then they are strong.
Every time this thread pops up I get excited and open it, and then leave disappointed because it turns out it isn't actually about whale nards.
https://www.dtswiss.com/en/products/rims/hybrid-e-bike/hx-491/#2
I found this....
in the depths of the DT swiss site hidden behind the evil hybrid and e bike catagory.
its basically a 471, with slightly more meat, and aimed squarely at electric dumbfuckery.
but its still lighter than a FR560!
here is the neat part
It comes in 36H drilling
meaning if you have a 36H hadley laying around you can build up a sweet wheel with 36 aero comps or whatever you like,
or the 29" people can have a wheel that is not flexing all over the place.
they also have a 30mm internal version,
the HX531 its 550g. Its lighter than the most likely overkill FR560 coming it at 595G
also available in 36H
I found this....
in the depths of the DT swiss site hidden behind the evil hybrid and e bike catagory.
its basically a 471, with slightly more meat, and aimed squarely at electric dumbfuckery.
but its still lighter than a FR560!
here is the neat part
It comes in 36H drilling
meaning if you have a 36H hadley laying around you can build up a sweet wheel with 36 aero comps or whatever you like,
or the 29" people can have a wheel that is not flexing all over the place.
they also have a 30mm internal version,
the HX531 its 550g. Its lighter than the most likely overkill FR560 coming it at 595G
also available in 36H
this rim takes an interesting approach.
www.pinkbike.com
Review: Quai's ISOS 33 Carbon Wheels - Unique Looks, Reliable Performance - Pinkbike
You've probably never seen carbon fiber rims like these before, but do they make a difference on the trail?
this rim takes an interesting approach.
Review: Quai's ISOS 33 Carbon Wheels - Unique Looks, Reliable Performance - Pinkbike
You've probably never seen carbon fiber rims like these before, but do they make a difference on the trail?
First Look: Alchemist's Radical Carbon Wheels - Eurobike 2015 - Pinkbike
Carbon fiber rims that are made in Italy and look like nothing else on the market.
Looks like a gimmick. Offset drilled asym rim works as fine.
They cut through sticks really well, they also take the top off your knuckles when installing Cush Core, helps offset the weight gain.
With bladed spokes my wheelset with tyres and no cassette is 11pounds, I can really notice the weight reduction from the bladed spokes, hahaha!
Here we go again
Yeah you want the heavy bits on the outside, it gives you the momentum of a 29er but you are still accepted by the RM crowd.Here we go again
I noticed my spokes have been contacting the cassette, must be because of the sideways flex from the bladed spokes, or maybe it is the lack of boost.....
Another nonsensical post by me, there are many on here.
They are just wheels, do what the professional wheel builders recommend, the E book I bought said 32 spoke, three cross with J bend spokes was a sure bet so I do that.
My Stan's rims are quite compliant and the spokes I have are butted over a very long length which should(in theory) help with fatigue life, when laced they sit nice and flat where the spokes intersect and the spokes don't wear little grooves in each other like my roundtard spokes did.
The CX-Ray still lists as the strongest of the Sapim spokes, I don't replace them very often and I' assume I'm a pretty shit wheel builder.
I think the full build ended up at around 1750g for 650b wheels which is okay for alloy rims.
That's because they are the most expensive and the ones they want people to buy. Sapim is full of shit. The other butted spokes are also cold forged.
To be fair, they are fairly strong spokes for the weight. See:
Spoke strength and wheel strength
We have a lot of wheels to get out today, so I'm going to publish this without some charts and graphs that I'll add a little later. The words will convery the point adequately enough for the time being, but charts and graphs always make a nice impression on management - those guy are short...
novemberbicycles.com
You know that pinging that you hear when you inflate your tire after a truing/new build/tensioning? Or when you mount the wheel and take it for a spin? That noise is the spokes/nips straightening out. Spokes don't twist 3-4 times when building/truing. Maybe a quarter turn at the worst. Use spoke prep and avoid these issues when you tension your wheels in the off season.
Never have that because after every round of truing I take the wheel out of the stand and release the windup. Takes longer to work on a wheel but I have minimal windup and don't damage the spokes. If you hear pinging while riding you know your spoke tension is off after that compared to when you trued the wheel.
For example Sapim Laser spokes (2.0-1.5-2.0 mm) will get damaged by windup. And from their weight these are the ones to compare to CX Rays. But I agree with you, for more reasonable spokes like 2.0-1.8-2.0 this will be less of an issue.
I use linseed oil when I build.
Use something to keep the spokes turning and provide a barrier for galvanic corrosion. Doing this, which you should be doing when building alum nipple carbon rims, everything works out fine. I just built a wheel a week ago for my endurpo bike and absolutely no issues with spokes winding up. That happens IME when they are dry and these days, you need something as a barrier (that is not conductive) anyway.
I do final truing with the tubeless tire mounted, tension drops significantly, so this is the final important step. After that, I don't have to touch it for years usually. It won't "loosen".
IME, different spokes don't really make a real difference, balancing out elasticity with all out strength, there's usually a wide range of what will work, the bigger issues come from using like 24 spokes or some stupid lacing pattern that's hip at the time.
Sapim lists the yield strength in Newtons/square mm
So,
If we do the pi radius squared to the 1.5mm cross section cx ray we get an area of 1.77 square mm. Sapim lists 1600n/sqmm
1.77sqmm x1600 gives us 2832n or 636lbs.
Now let's do a Sapim force
1.8mm diameter gives us an area of 2.01.
Sapim lists 1400n/sqmm for the force
2.01sqmm x 1400 gives us 2814n or 632lbs
This is impressive!
A 1.5mm spoke stiffer than a 1.8, I suspect this is material not the blading process
Now let's do a Sapim strong
2mm diameter gives us a whopping area if 3.14
Material strength if 1250n/sqmm
3.14x1250 gives us 3925n or 882lbs
Sheer mass makes for a stiffer spoke this time.
Last one
The cx sprint
1.8mm diameter 2.01 area
1450n
2.01 x 1430 =2874n or 646lbs
So the cx ray is not the strongest,
It's made of the strongest material. Less of it. Leaving it weaker than a "strong" and cx sprint
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I do all this and put a piece of tape on the spoke. Easy to see if any windup is happening and you can back it off.
Nerd is in the title....
But nobody is "doing" math. My phone did the math for me.
Too many beers for math right now, but I'll take your word for it.
The pinging happens after truing/tensioning the spokes and riding it for the first revolution of the wheel. That's the spokes unwinding, not losing tension. I've checked tension after doing this and there's no measurable difference.
Linseed oil is a good choice also.
Shit, seems I derailed the thread, sorry.
Interesting. I usually used a spoke tensiometer before and after releasing windup and the spoke tension seems to change. Not a lot and not for all spokes, but it is enough to notice. Maybe there is also some unthreading in the nippel and not only release of windup?
Does it matter? This is always the same, so you factor that in when adjusting the spoke tension when you build the wheel. Easier than to deal with truing with the tire on IMO.
You should be unwinding the spokes before riding the wheel.
IME yes, as the drop with the tire installed/inflated is significant enough to cause you to be maxing out the nipples/tension before doing so, and then mounted, it's loose enough that it wouldn't be safe to ride. I think I counted 3-turns to proper tension after mounting.
well, they are organic rims. I count "half turns" as full turns on my spokey, as in my fingers can only do half-turns at once, so probably 1.5 full turns.Holy cow, never seen it that extreme. Are your rims made out of cheese?