[mogulskr]

I'm looking for a new camera. We have your basic point and shoot to carry around, but I need something for sports. Keep in mind I am no photographic genious. Looking for something to shoot soccer games, skiing and indoor stuff like graduations at a distance. Easy to use, but enough features as I learn them would be helpful.

Thanks

 

[Westy]

This takes some nice shots.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/531073-REG/Hasselblad_70390531_H3DII_39MS_SLR_Digital_Camera.html

 

[mogulskr]

This takes some nice shots.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/531073-REG/Hasselblad_70390531_H3DII_39MS_SLR_Digital_Camera.html

Really, great I think I will get 2 so my wife and I can both take pics.

 

[dante]

if you're serious about shooting sports (and just getting better pics in general), a DSLR is really the only way to go. it has (almost) instantaneous shutter release, so you can focus on what you want, and then when you want to take the picture *click*, instead of trying to figure in the 1/2sec shutter lag on a P&S. the sensor's are also a LOT larger, so the shots will be clearer and sharper, and low-light photography is greatly improved (the low-light photography is important for sports, since you have to keep your shutter speed high, which limits the amount of light that the camera can bring in).

however (always a however), the biggest issue is cost. DSLR bodies have come down a LOT recently, to the point that you can pick up a good, solid entry level model (Canon XSi / XTi, Nikon D60?) for about $5-600, but the lenses/accessories have not come down in price.

"Good" lenses start in the $300-500 range including some excellent 3rd party lenses from Tamron and Sigma, with "Very Good" lenses in the $700-1000 (and going up from there). Then figure on another couple hundred for a flash, especially if you're going to be shooting under tree cover.

So, uh, I guess what I should've asked at the beginning, is, how much are you willing to spend? For about a grand you can set yourself up with a very nice body and "walkaround" lens, and if you know the distance you're going to be shooting at you can usually get an excellent prime lens (no zoom) for far less than a comparable zoom lens...

 

[narlus]

This takes some nice shots.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/531073-REG/Hasselblad_70390531_H3DII_39MS_SLR_Digital_Camera.html

it does. a friend of mine uses one.

 

[blue]

it does. a friend of mine uses one.

I shot a few clicks with one once while assisting on a shoot.

Sadly, there was no choir of angels, no noodly appendage reaching down...quite a let down, really.

Aaaanywho, back to the OP...a Rebel or D60 is going to be pretty slow for action photography. Get a used Canon 30D body, or spring for the new 40D...A used 30D body will probably run around $600, with a third party 24-75mm f/2.8 and a flash card/little bag rounding out your budget.

One downside to the third party fast lenses is that they seem to have awfully slow and lost (hunts like no other, can't lock on) autofocus. If you're shooting in broad daylight, you may want to pick up a slower Canon zoom with USM. I have the much-hated-on 75-300mm f/crap and from 75-200mm it's a decent piece of glass if you have enough light to use it.

 

[binary visions]

One downside to the third party fast lenses is that they seem to have awfully slow and lost (hunts like no other, can't lock on) autofocus.

That is not an accurate generalization of third party lenses.

There are gems and duds across all brands, but there are many great Sigma/Tamron/Tokina lenses. I have no doubt that some lenses have AF troubles (DPReview just noted the Tamron 70-200 as being prone to AF problems), but it is not a "downside to the third party fast lenses." It's simply a downside to certain lenses. I've used some of Sigma's HSM lenses that are blazingly fast and accurate. My Tamron 90mm macro is a screwdriver lens, and is the same focus speed and accuracy as my Nikon screwdriver lenses.

dante's advice is good - except for shutter lag on P&S cameras, there is virtually no discernible shutter lag on most decent P&S cameras, only slow focus problems - and we really need a budget to make accurate recommendations.

 

[dante]

dante's advice is good - except for shutter lag on P&S cameras, there is virtually no discernible shutter lag on most decent P&S cameras, only slow focus problems - and we really need a budget to make accurate recommendations.

damn, I stand corrected...

Shutter Lag, Canon G9 Prefocused 0.088 sec

guess I shouldn't make recommendations based on my 8 year old 2.1mp P&S. :biggrin:

for blue, the only thing the XTI / XSI gives up to the 30d is frames per second, but if you're shooting action you usually want one good shot instead of spraying for 5 shots and hoping you get something good... the XTI uses the same focusing system as the 30d, and the XSI uses a superior one.

but ya, give us a budget and we'll spend it (and probably go 20% over) in no time...

 

[mogulskr]

For a budget can I stay around 750. Would this get me something to start with and have room to improve on it if need be in the future?

 

[narlus]

for blue, the only thing the XTI / XSI gives up to the 30d is frames per second,

the controls differ...the quick dial on the back is essential for easy exposure adjustments if you tend to shoot manual.

 

[dante]

For a budget can I stay around 750. Would this get me something to start with and have room to improve on it if need be in the future?

barely. the Canon XTi is ~$520, and you can pick up the 85mm 1.8 for ~$329 (both at buy.com). or $50 less than my 20% over quote. maybe a little less if you buy used?

the biggest issue is that you want sports (distance) + indoor (distance + low light) + probably a walkaround for the times when you're shooting people, kids, landscapes, etc. the body isn't where your cost is going to lie, as a $400 XTi body picked up off of ebay would do 90% of what a newer, more expensive body would be. the issue is that lenses are fudgin' expensive.

a couple of excellent value lenses would be:
$550 Canon 70-200mm f4 - excellent entry professional lens, good outdoor sports lens, might be a bit "slow" (aperture wise) for indoors
$350 Canon 85mm 1.8 - excellent value indoor sports lens, think basketball, volleyball, etc, which would probably work well for graduations too. might be a bit on the short side (only 85mm) for outdoor sports or graduations shots from the bleachers?
$350 Tamron 17-50mm / Sigma 18-50mm - good quick little "walkaround" lenses that could be used for sports if you can get close enough, but they probably don't have the reach for anything like skiing or soccer.
$400 Sigma 30mm 1.4 - really good indoor close up lens, but it's a prime so you have to move around to compose your shot.
$85 Canon 50mm 1.8 - Cheap, plasticky, and takes incredible photos. Ok, maybe just really, really good photos. Slow focusing, loud, and occasionally some color/contrast issues, for the price it really can't be beat.
$50 (used) Canon 18-55mm - Cheap plasticky lens that was included with kit cameras. Worthwhile only because it enables you to get a walkaround lens to accompany a better telephoto lens for your sports pohotography
$170 Canon 18-55mm IS - replaces the lens above, and adds IS (image stabilization) and supposedly increases the picture quality as well. might be able to pick up used?

body prices range from ~$400 used on up from there. so the problem really is that you could afford a body and one of the lenses listed above. if you want a telephoto, you'd be stuck without a "walk around" lens for normal photography. if you go with a walk around lens, you're missing out on the telephoto that you want for the sports shots.

I listed lenses for Canon, but Nikon has similar bodies/lenses. their bodies might be a bit cheaper on the low end, but their lenses are often more expensive and their cheap bodies don't work with some of their older lenses. (you do get the satisfaction of knowing you produced good results with inferior equipment, though... )

If $750 is the max and you're not planning on dropping anymore cash anytime soon, you might want to get an advanced P&S. Otherwise start out with what you can afford, and build up from there. Careful, it, uh, gets a bit addicting...

 

[mogulskr]

Lots of good information...

Thanks for the advice. So by the looks of it I will be in the 750 -1000 range to start with.

 

[mogulskr]

How would this camera and this lens fit the bill to start with?

I think I need to find some info on photography as well. Thanks for the help.

 

[dante]

Thanks for the advice. So by the looks of it I will be in the 750 -1000 range to start with.

yup. also don't forget to budget in things like a memory card and a bag to carry it all in. it's not hugely expensive, but it's things like that that sometime's push you up a bit over your target price.

also be careful of some of the shady online shops, especially the ones that operate from Brooklyn. the places that are usually the best are bhphotovideo.com, adorama.com, buydig.com and beachcamera.com (the last two are the same).

 

[dante]

I think I need to find some info on photography as well. Thanks for the help.

a great forum site for canon resources is www.photography-on-the.net/forum , and for Nikon it's www.nikonian.org. a lot of great info to peruse through, although I'd definitely search a lot before posting since the "what camera should I buy" question comes up several times per day...

the camera that you listed is the XT model, which is the precursor to the XTi. the biggest difference is the speed of the AF (among other things), which might limit you some if you're trying to shoot sports.

the same with the lens, it is IS (which is an excellent feature, but often quite costly) but it's also a bit slow in focusing (it has a micro-drive AF motor, not the faster USM) and has a relatively small and variable Aperture 4-5.6 (not going to be that good for indoor use).

this is an excellent website with a lot of hands-on testing of both bodies and lenses, and while there are always good and bad copies of lenses, he's usually pretty consistent. www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews

 

[blue]

That is not an accurate generalization of third party lenses.

There are gems and duds across all brands, but there are many great Sigma/Tamron/Tokina lenses. I have no doubt that some lenses have AF troubles (DPReview just noted the Tamron 70-200 as being prone to AF problems), but it is not a "downside to the third party fast lenses." It's simply a downside to certain lenses. I've used some of Sigma's HSM lenses that are blazingly fast and accurate. My Tamron 90mm macro is a screwdriver lens, and is the same focus speed and accuracy as my Nikon screwdriver lenses.

dante's advice is good - except for shutter lag on P&S cameras, there is virtually no discernible shutter lag on most decent P&S cameras, only slow focus problems - and we really need a budget to make accurate recommendations.

I did say seem...I've had 4 3rd party lenses (one was a Sigma HSM), and none could match the consistency of most Canon USM or Nikon ican'trememberthenameofourfastaf lenses I've used when it comes to action and low-light shooting. It definitely seems very hit-or-miss with them.

To the OP - What Narlus said is correct...it's not just the FPS that matters, but the body shape/functions as well. Shooting with a Rebel and a long tele lens manually sucks, just because of how tiny the body is and how difficult the controls are to use in comparison to an xxD. IQ wise the XTI/XSI may edge out the 30D slightly, but if the majority of my shooting was action, I'd consider the trade-off worth it. But, bodies are all personal preference, and you'll spend the same amount of dough for any of our suggestions.

Lenses are what matters. At your pricepoint, I'd go used...you simply get a ton more bang for the buck. Check out the Fred Miranda classifieds as well as POTN, POTN seems to be a bit overpriced...

What I'd do in your seat (hypothetical pricing, here):
-Canon 30D, $500
-Tamron 24-75mm f/2.8 macro blah blah blah, $275~
-Canon 50mm f/1.8, $50 if you look hard enough
-Canon 75-300mm f/4-5.6 III USM, $100 or less - everyone hates on these lenses, just don't use it beyond 200mm

Spend the remaining $75 on a CF card and a little bag. Save your pennies for a good flash/strobe (430ex is a good budget option, can be had for $150-200), and a Canon 70-200 f/2.8L...the 70-200 f/4 is a nice lens, but it sucks indoors and the 75-300 really doesn't lose much in the sharpness department to it. If you need a wider lens for action stuff, maybe find a USM kit lens someone is trying to offload (the seller of the 30D might even throw it in for free), they can be found for $50 or so.