[BadDNA]

On the upside I had the pleasure of attempting to back it into a bay at an RV hellpark with all kinds of witnesses. Needless to say it went about as well as you might expect for someone who has never backed up a trailer in their life.

Could be worse:

 

[OGRipper]

On the upside I had the pleasure of attempting to back it into a bay at an RV hellpark with all kinds of witnesses. Needless to say it went about as well as you might expect for someone who has never backed up a trailer in their life.

Been there done that, only with a boat at a loading dock. Fun!

I tend to agree that big trailers are not the best solution, particularly for frequent use. Even if you have a strong enough vehicle to pull it you're subject to lower speed limits and in general it's just more sketchy on the freeway, not to mention a bitch to park and maneuver in tight spots. A van remains my favorite. I can cruise at 80 mph in my fully-loaded sprinter, with only a little loss of speed heading up mountains. If however you're planning some serious off-road excursions, a proper 4X4 with a camper top is the way to go from what I've seen. (This is of course through the lens of a cyclist who pretty much parks for the trip, i.e., not someone who might want to detach the pull vehicle.)

 

[Adventurous]

Been there done that, only with a boat at a loading dock. Fun!

I tend to agree that big trailers are not the best solution, particularly for frequent use. Even if you have a strong enough vehicle to pull it you're subject to lower speed limits and in general it's just more sketchy on the freeway, not to mention a bitch to park and maneuver in tight spots. A van remains my favorite. I can cruise at 80 mph in my fully-loaded sprinter, with only a little loss of speed heading up mountains. If however you're planning some serious off-road excursions, a proper 4X4 with a camper top is the way to go from what I've seen. (This is of course through the lens of a cyclist who pretty much parks for the trip, i.e., not someone who might want to detach the pull vehicle.)

The wife and I fully agree that a van would be the best solution for our camping needs, just decidedly non-ideal for the rest of life. And whereas my excursions often include offroading the 4x4 abilities of my Tacoma are greatly appreciated.

Always a compromise, now to figure out which compromise is the most agreeable.

 

[Toshi]

The wife and I fully agree that a van would be the best solution for our camping needs, just decidedly non-ideal for the rest of life. And whereas my excursions often include offroading the 4x4 abilities of my Tacoma are greatly appreciated.

Always a compromise, now to figure out which compromise is the most agreeable.

Rooftop tent for the Tacoma and a bag of SIUP?

 

[eric strt6]

good read (written for the UK; caravan= tow vehicle and trailer)

Clayton's Towing added 2 new photos.
July 14 at 8:55pm ·


## CARAVAN CRASHES - Our opinion why ##
We have been asked countless times why we seem to attend so many caravan crashes and each time what caused them. There are always thousands of different opinions but we are going to step out and explain some major points we think contribute to these incidents. This may cause a stir with the "experts" and contradict some online information; as we all know just because it is on google doesn’t mean it is right. We will stress though this is our opinion, we are not engineers, nor do we have special tickets (other than semi-trailer licences), so take it as you like. This opinion is by a group of us who, outside of work, all travel with large vans and have also attended hundreds of caravan crashes at work. With each crash, as we a have interest in caravanning, we look at what we think caused it and often chat to the drivers about their experiences, what they did, look how they set their van up, how different vans are manufactured. Often we see and hear similar problems. We never wanted to express our opinion online of what we thought caused individual accidents, as in some cases manufacturer and aftermarket suppliers may be inclined to sue us for those opinions. Basically this post is not about one particular caravan crash, it is an overview.

Vehicle size and capacity. A vehicle loaded correctly of a decent size is safer than a vehicle that has a bit of paper saying it can. A large 4wd wagon is a fair lump of a car but a lot of these lighter utes out there have a higher towing capacity. Just because it says on paper it can tow 3.5 tonne it doesn't mean you’re going to be all good to tow even a 2.5 tonne van. For example a standard Toyota Prado weighs 2.22 tonne and can legally tow 2.5 tonnes but a standard D Max ute weighs just under 2 tonne but can “legally” tow 3.5 tonne. Main point is to ensure if you are using a ute to tow a large van, it needs to have a decent load in it, and we don’t mean a couple of fold up chairs and tables. Utes also have longer overhang compared to a wagon so when they start to get the wobbles up it’s like a counter lever, it's going to push your backside around a lot easier. Of course large 4wds crash, but we generally see them with larger vans behind. There is no doubt the heavier towing vehicle is, the better. Legally we still say half of the 4wd caravan combinations we see out there would be over loaded, especially over their gvm and gcm weight, but that’s a whole new subject we could write a book about.

Caravan weights. This is big one. You need to aim to have around 200 to 250 kgs weight on your tow ball with bigger vans. 10 percent of the caravan weight is a good rule of thumb for whatever size van you tow. Of course you need to have the rear of your tow vehicle set up for this load, and ensure it is legal. If you have no or limited downwards weight from the van going onto the tow hitch of your tow vehicle you’re really asking for trouble. Some vans are manufactured with nearly no tow ball weight, some are really scary, do your homework before you make your investment. Some actually work on the front tunnel being loaded with gear and water tanks being full. In some cases a empty or light loaded van ends up being more dangerous. It is really important to check where your water tanks are and understand as they get emptier the towball weight is changing. If you have two full water tanks in front of the axle, they can make a great difference to tow ball weight. But if you have one tank at the front and one at the rear it can act as another risky counter lever if you have the front empty and back full. Also some vans have waste water holding tanks at the back, so you could have camped and unknowingly just moved a 100 plus kgs of weight from your front drinking water tanks and put it in the rear waste tank. This causes a see saw effect and could change your towball weight, to nothing, or even place a lift effect on the rear of the tow vehicle. Buy yourself a tow ball weight scale (about $70), and check your weight, take note of where your items are in the van and what your water levels are sitting at. Learn how your van works at different times, some people will be shocked. Lots of caravans we collect after accidents (when they stay together) we do see evenly balanced with the tow bar up in the air, or able to pick the drawbar up with one hand. This is a recipe for disaster and we consider the biggest factor for a lot of crashes we attend. Toy haulers that cart motorbikes etc in the back (yes we get them crashed) you really have to think a bit more about what you are doing.

A common comment we often hear and is actually in a lot of training manuals is, if you get the wobbles, speed up and it will pull out of it. We really have to pull this statement apart. Over three quarters of the people we rescue say, it got the wobbles, I gently accelerated to get out of it, and it all got worse quickly. Generally people get the wobbles up when they are going a bit quicker than their combination can handle and often slightly downhill (will cover this soon) so going faster in these situations will only make things worse. An exception would be if you are positive that you can lock your trailer brakes up via your trailer controller, acceleration “may” only then help. We still think the better emergency option is to press your emergency electric brake button or slightly press your brakes so the trailer electric brakes activate, as going faster in these scenarios often doesn't go well.

Electric brake controllers. When you’re on the highway turn them up high to provide solid braking to the trailer, if you need to emergency stop you want the trailer to be pulling up faster. If you go through town and turn them down due to brakes locking up at the lights, don’t forget to turn them up or they won't be there when needed. The older style controllers had a large solid lever you could grab the slide button to lock the trailer brakes on. The new controllers have a push button, critical thing is the button on lots of models only activate the brakes to what you have them set on. If you have the brakes turned down from in town, the button won't help if a emergency occurs. Lots of vans now have automatic emergency electronic stability control, these are great if operating correctly but make sure you don't fall into a false sense of security, they are only one piece of the puzzle that may help. We have seen people go into emergency situations where they depended on the emergency stability control to help, and appeared it didn’t. They run out of time to go back to the manual method of pressing button on brake controller, or slightly touching brakes, to activate the trailer brakes. It also needs to be mentioned trailer brakes of any type needs to be regularly checked, no matter what type you have fitted. If they aren’t operating correctly you have an issue. It only takes a simple wire off to stop the process. A good tip too is when you have a brake controller fitted to your vehicle, ensure it is in a very easy to access position while driving, it could be your lifeline.

Swaybars (weight distribution hitch), another touchy subject. Do any of us have them? No. Do lots of caravans we see rolled have them? Yes. With a heavily loaded towball they can help. If you have low towball weight, we personally consider they make things worse. With their tension they really could provide the opposite result and have a dangerous lifting effect on the rear of your vehicle. If you are getting them, make sure you know what you are doing, know your weights or go to reputable companies who can give you the time to assist in having the right ones. These should not be used as a solution to a problem, only another tool that may help your towing experience. If they are used with limited tow ball weight we really feel you are making things worse.

Why are there so many accidents in our area? Big factor we see is that we have sections of highway that are downhill, with slight bends, 110 kmh zones, with some cross winds involved. As it is downhill people's speeds unknowingly come up in these sections a bit higher than they normally travel. The extra speed, downhill, winds, plus one or more of the above things discussed can lead to disaster. In real terms with the number of caravans on the road there are no more crashes than other vehicles, but the mess / disruption as well as stress they cause as they are often people's homes puts them in the lime light. We do tend to see every accident has at least two of the above factors involved.

As we said to start with, this is personal opinion. Feel welcome to comment below if you agree, disagree, any questions you may have and we will try our best to give our thoughts. In the end if we share our real life experiences and even if we can help prevent even one accident with our fellow caravanners our job is done.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

Here's a translation from the Aurstralian:

We have been asked countless times why we seem to attend to so many trailer crashes and what caused them. There are always thousands of different opinions but we are going to step out and explain some major points we think contribute to these incidents. This may cause a stir with the "experts" and contradict some online information. As we all know just because it is on Google doesn’t mean it is right. We will stress though that this is our opinion. We are not engineers, nor do we have special licenses (other than semi licenses), so take it as you like. This opinion is by a group of us who, outside of work, all travel with large trailers and have also attended hundreds of trailer crashes at work. With each crash, as we a have interest in pulling trailers, we look at what we think caused it and often chat to the drivers about their experiences; what they did, look how they set their tow vehicle up, and how different tow vehicles are manufactured. Often we see and hear similar problems. This post is not about one particular trailer crash, it is an overview.

Vehicle size and capacity. A vehicle loaded correctly of a decent size is safer than a vehicle that has a bit of paper saying it can. A large 4WD wagon is a fair lump of a car but a lot of these lighter SUVs out there have a higher towing capacity. Just because it says on paper that it can tow 3.5 tons doesn't mean you’re going to be all good to tow even a 2.5 ton trailer. For example a standard Toyota Prado weighs 2.22 tons and can legally tow 2.5 tons but a standard D Max SUV weighs just under 2 tons but can “legally” tow 3.5 tons. Main point is to ensure if you are using a SUV to tow a large trailer, it needs to have a decent load in it, and we don’t mean a couple of fold up chairs and tables. SUVs also have longer overhang compared to a wagon so when they start to wobble it’s like a counter lever, it's going to push your backside around a lot easier. Of course large 4WDs crash, but we generally see them with larger trailers behind. There is no doubt the heavier towing vehicle is, the better. Legally we still say half of the 4WD trailer combinations we see out there are overloaded, especially over their GVM and GCM weight, but that’s a whole new subject we could write a book about.

Trailer weights is big one. You need to aim to have around 450 to 550 pounds weight on your tow ball with bigger trailers. Ten percent of the trailer weight is a good rule of thumb for whatever size trailer you tow. Of course you need to have the rear of your tow vehicle set up for this load, and ensure it is legal. If you have no or limited downwards weight from the trailer on the tow hitch of your tow vehicle you’re really asking for trouble. Some trailers are manufactured with nearly no tow ball weight and some are really scary. Do your homework before you make your investment. Some actually work on the front tunnel being loaded with gear and water tanks being full. In some cases an empty or lightly loaded trailer ends up being more dangerous. It is really important to check where your water tanks are and understand as they get emptier the towball weight is changing. If you have two full water tanks in front of the axle, they can make a great difference to tow ball weight. But if you have one tank at the front and one at the rear it can act as another risky counter lever if you have the front empty and back full. Also some trucks have waste water holding tanks at the back, so you could have camped and unknowingly just moved hundreds of pounds of weight from your front drinking water tanks and put it in the rear waste tanks. This causes a seesaw effect and could change your towball weight, to nothing, or even place a lift effect on the rear of the tow vehicle. Buy yourself a tow ball weight scale and check your weight. Take note of where your items are in the trailer and what your water levels are. Learn how your trailer works at different times; some people will be shocked. Lots of trailers we collect after accidents (when they stay together) we do see evenly balanced with the tow bar up in the air, or are able to pick the drawbar up with one hand. This is a recipe for disaster and we consider it the biggest factor for a lot of crashes we attend. With toy haulers that cart motorcycles, etc. in the back (yes we get them crashed) you really have to think a bit more about what you are doing.

A common comment we often hear and is actually in a lot of training manuals is, if you get the wobbles, speed up and it will pull out of it. We really have to pull this statement apart. Over three quarters of the people we rescue say, it got the wobbles, I gently accelerated to get out of it, and it all got worse quickly. Generally people get the wobbles when they are going a bit quicker than their combination can handle and often slightly downhill, so going faster in these situations will only make things worse. An exception would be if you are positive that you can lock your trailer brakes up via your trailer controller, acceleration “may” only then help. We still think the better emergency option is to press your emergency electric brake button or slightly press your brakes so the trailer electric brakes activate, as going faster in these scenarios often doesn't go well.

Electric brake controllers. When you’re on the highway turn them up high to provide solid braking to the trailer. If you need to stop in an emergency you want the trailer to be pulling up faster. If you go through town and turn them down due to brakes locking up at the lights, don’t forget to turn them up or they won't be there when needed. The older style controllers had a large solid lever you could grab the slide button to lock the trailer brakes on. The new controllers have a push button. Critical thing is that the button on lots of models only activate the brakes to what you have them set on. If you have the brakes turned down from in town, the button won't help if an emergency occurs. Lots of trucks now have electronic stability control. These are great if operating correctly but make sure you don't fall into a false sense of security, they are only one piece of the puzzle that may help. We have seen people go into emergency situations where they depended on the emergency stability control to help, and appeared it didn’t. They run out of time to go back to the manual method of pressing button on brake controller, or slightly touching brakes, to activate the trailer brakes. It also needs to be mentioned trailer brakes of any type need to be regularly checked, no matter what type you have fitted. If they aren’t operating correctly you have an issue. It only takes a broken wire to inactivate the trailer brakes. Another good tip is when you have a brake controller fitted to your vehicle, ensure it is in a very easy to access position while driving, it could be your lifeline.

Swaybars (weight distribution hitches), another touchy subject. Do any of us have them? No. Do lots of trailers we see rolled have them? Yes. With a heavily loaded towball they can help. If you have low towball weight, we personally consider they make things worse. With their tension they really could provide the opposite result and have a dangerous lifting effect on the rear of your vehicle. If you are getting them, make sure you know what you are doing, know your weights or go to reputable companies who can give you the time to assist in having the right ones. These should not be used as a solution to a problem, only another tool that may help your towing experience. If they are used with limited tow ball weight we really feel you are making things worse.

Why are there so many accidents in our area? Big factor we see is that we have sections of highway that are downhill, with slight bends, 70 mph zones, with some cross winds involved. As it is downhill people's speeds unknowingly come up in these sections a bit higher than they normally travel. The extra speed, downhill, winds, plus one or more of the above things discussed can lead to disaster. In real terms with the number of trailers on the road there are no more crashes than other vehicles, but the mess and disruption as well as stress they cause since they are often people's homes puts them in the limelight. Every accident we see has at least two of the above factors involved.

As we said to start with, this is personal opinion. Feel welcome to comment below if you agree, disagree, any questions you may have and we will try our best to give our thoughts. In the end if we share our real life experiences and even if we can help prevent even one accident with our fellow RVers our job is done.

 

[Montana rider]

interesting post from MikeC...

I LOVE family camping in our roomy 10X10 wall tent but will admit to camper envy, promaster seems like a much more reasonable option than $printer

https://mikesee.exposure.co/clifford

 

[johnbryanpeters]

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/336468/caravan-stolen-with-man-still-inside

 

[stevew]

@eric strt6

your spirit vehicle...

 

[eric strt6]

LOL that's a pavement queen RV park machine

now this would be way more to my liking

 

[StiHacka]

 

[Toshi]

Skip to about 0:45 in.

 

[StiHacka]

Skip to about 0:45 in.

Jimmydean got a camper?

 

[Adventurous]

Skip to about 0:45 in.

Reminds me of the other weekend when I saw a Class A RV drift. IT FUCKING DRIFTED THE BACK WHEELS THROUGH A TURN AT 50 MPH COMING DOWN BERTHOUD PASS!!!!111! I almost shit myself, if it went over it was right in front of me.

 

[Toshi]

Reminds me of the other weekend when I saw a Class A RV drift. IT FUCKING DRIFTED THE BACK WHEELS THROUGH A TURN AT 50 MPH COMING DOWN BERTHOUD PASS!!!!111! I almost shit myself, if it went over it was right in front of me.

No dashcam?

 

[Adventurous]

No dashcam?

No dashcam. I thought I was just seeing things but the wife confirmed that she saw the rear wheels break loose as well.

 

[Westy]

Reminds me of the other weekend when I saw a Class A RV drift. IT FUCKING DRIFTED THE BACK WHEELS THROUGH A TURN AT 50 MPH COMING DOWN BERTHOUD PASS!!!!111! I almost shit myself, if it went over it was right in front of me.

While driving through Ohio when I moved out here, some dude towing a pop-up passed me doing about 80 in a 55. He had a pop up camper that had come off of the hitch and was being dragged by the safety chains. The trailer has massive speed wobbles. Not too much farther down the road the wobble got so bad that the damn thing rolled over. The driver didn't seem to notice until a few hundred yards down the road before he pulled over.

 

[Toshi]

He had a pop up camper that had come off of the hitch and was being dragged by the safety chains

JBP sighting?!

 

[Adventurous]

While driving through Ohio when I moved out here, some dude towing a pop-up passed me doing about 80 in a 55. He had a pop up camper that had come off of the hitch and was being dragged by the safety chains. The trailer has massive speed wobbles. Not too much farther down the road the wobble got so bad that the damn thing rolled over. The driver didn't seem to notice until a few hundred yards down the road before he pulled over.

https://locknroll.com/

Gonna get one of those for my next trailer so I can drag it right side up, upside down, or on its side. I don't intend to let societal norms hold me back.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

Installed a Mopeka propane level sensor and the corresponding LPG Tank Check app on my mobile phone today. So far, I like it.

 

[stevew]

Skip to about 0:45 in.

younger brother and i saw someones camper exploded all over hwy 36 i think in boulder mad max style when we first moved to colorado.

part of it was still with the hitch attached to the suburban....part of the back end was across the median...the rest was spread out 75 yards down the highway.....

 

[stevew]

 

[johnbryanpeters]

Replaced tongue jack...

 

[stevew]

 

[stevew]

 

[stevew]

chinook taco or tundra.

 

[StiHacka]

View attachment 126356

Wall Drug!

 

[junkyard]

Yeah we will need to see those also. Thanks...

Took me long enough. But heres my rig. Works out good for me, the lady and the kids.

 

[stevew]

 

[johnbryanpeters]

View attachment 126371

OK, I have to admit that's impressive.

 

[6thElement]

That even has enough shade for me

 

[jdcamb]

View attachment 126362
Took me long enough. But heres my rig. Works out good for me, the lady and the kids.

What I want.

 

[junkyard]

What I want.

Get the queen bed that you can exit from either side. No crawling over someone.

 

[jdcamb]

Get the queen bed that you can exit from either side. No crawling over someone.

Roadmaster has 2 twins and a set of folding bunks. Set up for hunting.... I am taking it out this weekend for a bike trip....

 

[junkyard]

Roadmaster has 2 twins and a set of folding bunks. Set up for hunting.... I am taking it out this weekend for a bike trip....

Yah the queen bed would be weird with a bunch of dudes

 

[stevew]

toyota galaxy diesel 4x4....

 

[Toshi]

With those taller tires and a four banger diesel It has to be dog slow.

 

[jdcamb]

Yah the queen bed would be weird with a bunch of dudes

It was kind of nice to just throw in the bikes and gear along with the dog crates into camper. Ready to go in 15 minutes.

 

[TreeSaw]

After putting over 12,000 miles on our tiny house with wheels we have figured out some additional improvements (we've already done the LED light conversion and installed USB charging ports, new 8 ply tires, memory foam queen mattress topper and new shower skylight). Next up, a bit of a lift (those MT roads get mighty bumpy), reinforced wheel wells and solar power. We still love it and plan on spending much more time travelling with the kids and dog so little by little we will get there.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

Keep me informed regarding the wheel well reinforcement.