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Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
55,026
20,914
Sleazattle
.....but we were talking about RV fabrication shops which is new ones. Methed out fabricators don't have the link to the second hand market, they sell to first time/primary buyers.

I can promise you floridaman is quite well aware of the tertiary 'housing stock' of beat down used RVs. There are whole makeshift towns of the damn things in the desert not far from here.

Anyway, I just thought your initial comment might be an indication of something bigger that I'd seen a small part of: meth in the lightweight side panel glue industry.
Good lord, it was a joke.

However poor quality has kind of been the standard for RVs for a while, certainly worse post pandemic. Which kind of says that manufacturers are shooting for the lowest cost possible and the owners are rather willing to accept it. That isn't exactly indicative of a discerning wealthy consumer, more like an over-extended debtor. It kind of blows my mind that people are willing to spend large sums of money for a new RV. The depreciation rates make buying a boat look like a good idea.
 

Adventurous

Starshine Bro
Mar 19, 2014
10,550
9,307
Crawlorado
No, that is a management problem. I have been to hundreds of factories in a variety of industries and most of the grunt work is tedious monotony yet some places created quality and others shit. To use a cliche, you are teaching it or letting it happen. I would also add that if you only pay meth-head wages you will only get meth-head workers. Corporate America wastes billions of dollars trying to pay employees the least amount possible.

When I worked pharma production almost all the factory work was mind numbingly repetitive. To avoid burning people out roles were cycled every 2 hours or so and every week a team would shift to a different area to provide a variety of tasks. Also people were paid well, those jobs were not easily replaced. It was an efficient and effective work force. Also on the grand scale of things RV assembly probably has less tedious and repetitive work than in most places. More like construction where all the houses are the same.
I worked at a medical device manufacturer who also had a mind numbingly boring assembly line. Glue one plastic piece into another over and over as fast as you can day in and day out with minor variations to the overall configuration. All while gowned up in a clean room environment.

Management was somehow perplexed when a significant portion of the assemblers quit after Chipotle raised their wages. They eventually had to resort to recruiting ex-cons who had just been paroled, and even then they had a hard time attracting people.

No surprise that they launched an assembly line in Asia to "better serve demand from the Asian market". That plant also had a tough time attracting enough people to run the lines. :rofl:
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
I worked at a medical device manufacturer who also had a mind numbingly boring assembly line. Glue one plastic piece into another over and over as fast as you can day in and day out with minor variations to the overall configuration. All while gowned up in a clean room environment.

Management was somehow perplexed when a significant portion of the assemblers quit after Chipotle raised their wages. They eventually had to resort to recruiting ex-cons who had just been paroled, and even then they had a hard time attracting people.

No surprise that they launched an assembly line in Asia to "better serve demand from the Asian market". That plant also had a tough time attracting enough people to run the lines. :rofl:

You made fleshlights?
 

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
16,425
13,755
@johnbryanpeters @Jozz are your sprinters RWD or 4x4?

Found a 2019 that has a simple build out wife and I like, but it's RWD. Would definitely prefer more traction being in CO. Milesage is more than I'd like ~80k, but it's also not priced at $150k+ like most of them...
 

Jozz

Joe Dalton
Apr 18, 2002
5,914
7,469
SADL
@johnbryanpeters @Jozz are your sprinters RWD or 4x4?

Found a 2019 that has a simple build out wife and I like, but it's RWD. Would definitely prefer more traction being in CO. Milesage is more than I'd like ~80k, but it's also not priced at $150k+ like most of them...
Mine is a RWD. Not the most agile at climbing hills in the snow. For where you live and if you intend to use it a lot during snow season I'd suggest getting a 4WD.
 

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
16,425
13,755
Mine is a RWD. Not the most agile at climbing hills in the snow. For where you live and if you intend to use it a lot during snow season I'd suggest getting a 4WD.
We're not plank sliders, so heading to resorts isn't something we'd be using it for. But driving across to Moab etc in spring can have nasty conditions along I-70. I'd definitely look to add some studded tyres. Just trying to decide if we should give up on this one and keep looking for a 4x4 that has a functional build we like and not priced to the moon.

Would also have to be careful in sandy washes...
 

Jozz

Joe Dalton
Apr 18, 2002
5,914
7,469
SADL
We're not plank sliders, so heading to resorts isn't something we'd be using it for. But driving across to Moab etc in spring can have nasty conditions along I-70. I'd definitely look to add some studded tyres. Just trying to decide if we should give up on this one and keep looking for a 4x4 that has a functional build we like and not priced to the moon.

Would also have to be careful in sandy washes...
What aboot going to the mailbox? :rolleyes:

My driveway is around 150 feet with an average 8% grade going uphill. I have to make sure the driveway is not soft or icy if I intend to take the van for a spin. I got stuck a few times. Never had studded tires though. Now I only run winter approved AT tires. Hopefully we'll make it to Moab this spring.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,930
8,097
@johnbryanpeters @Jozz are your sprinters RWD or 4x4?

Found a 2019 that has a simple build out wife and I like, but it's RWD. Would definitely prefer more traction being in CO. Milesage is more than I'd like ~80k, but it's also not priced at $150k+ like most of them...
If I were you I'd go for AWD all the way. 2020+ Transits also have AWD optional, as I'm sure you know.
 

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
16,425
13,755
If I were you I'd go for AWD all the way. 2020+ Transits also have AWD optional, as I'm sure you know.
Very aware, but I want a build out with a NS bed, not EW and NS are far less common. I don't think I've seen any Transits that are NS. Given a choice I'd prefer a NS bed in a petrol AWD transit if they weren't like rocking horse poop.

Waiting lists on buying anything new are still stupid and then you're talking about a $50k build out on top...
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,930
8,097
Very aware, but I want a build out with a NS bed, not EW and NS are far less common. I don't think I've seen any Transits that are NS. Given a choice I'd prefer a NS bed in a petrol AWD transit if they weren't like rocking horse poop.

Waiting lists on buying anything new are still stupid and then you're talking about a $50k build out on top...
Some N-S builds here:


Shortened King in one! /me approves. You would need to not shorten it. :D
 

junkyard

You might feel a little prick.
Sep 1, 2015
2,602
2,304
San Diego
I really like the twin beds in my camper. I googled it and it’s possible in a sprinter. It’s nice being able to dress or sit in that area and not be up against the wall. Of course snuggles are more difficult but you can play red rover. My kids always camp with us so that’s not really a factor anyways. Also no crawling over people for mid night bathroom. Supposedly it offers more room than a queen just split in two. That’s my 2 cents on the issue.
 

Jozz

Joe Dalton
Apr 18, 2002
5,914
7,469
SADL
I have a NS setup. At 6'-2" I couldn't make the EW work without some stupid expensive pods.
Would you consider making your own conversion?
 

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
16,425
13,755
I have a NS setup. At 6'-2" I couldn't make the EW work without some stupid expensive pods.
Would you consider making your own conversion?
Wife would rather have something we can use, rather than listen to me swear for several months and miss out on actual riding time :p

@Toshi there's a few builders offer NS, but again rare secondhand and new is $$$$$$ and would be a long time before available.
 

Jozz

Joe Dalton
Apr 18, 2002
5,914
7,469
SADL
Wife would rather have something we can use, rather than listen to me swear for several months and miss out on actual riding time :p

@Toshi there's a few builders offer NS, but again rare secondhand and new is $$$$$$ and would be a long time before available.
When I got the van I purchased all my amenities and quickly built plywood bed, bench and couple other furniture. It was supposed to be temporary for our first road trip. It's been 7 years...
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,930
8,097
I’m really, really surprised that Toshi doesn’t have a Sprinter, now that I think about it. :p
if there were a 200 mile range, AWD, all electric Sprinter with 5 belted positions and sleeping for the same (via a popup?) then I would likely have one, yes

oh, with the adult bed a legit domestic/72" King width please
 

eric strt6

Resident Curmudgeon
Sep 8, 2001
23,726
14,156
directly above the center of the earth
While I get the camper van thing those prices are insane...I bought both my truck and camper used. in 2015 the truck was a 2011 F350 diesel dually crew cab longbed 4x4 Lariat package with 89K on it. I paid $38,000 the camper is a 2019 Lance 1062, dual slide outs, 3 burner stove , oven 7 CU Ft fridge/freezer, dry bath, queen NS bed in the cab over , dinette also converts ito a queen bed, AC, Furnace, 2 20# propane, 40 gallons of fresh water, satellite tv, 200 wats of solar, all LED lighting 2 group 31 AGM batteries, can be used off the truck. $38,000. Paid cash for both
 

Jozz

Joe Dalton
Apr 18, 2002
5,914
7,469
SADL
While I get the camper van thing those prices are insane...I bought both my truck and camper used. in 2015 the truck was a 2011 F350 diesel dually crew cab longbed 4x4 Lariat package with 89K on it. I paid $38,000 the camper is a 2019 Lance 1062, dual slide outs, 3 burner stove , oven 7 CU Ft fridge/freezer, dry bath, queen NS bed in the cab over , dinette also converts ito a queen bed, AC, Furnace, 2 20# propane, 40 gallons of fresh water, satellite tv, 200 wats of solar, all LED lighting 2 group 31 AGM batteries, can be used off the truck. $38,000. Paid cash for both
Truck and camper for $38k?
 

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
16,425
13,755
One of my reasons for wanting to go to a simple van setup over current pickup and camper is the bike storage. They get covered in crap on long trips and then you can't leave the camper as the bikes aren't secure.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,930
8,097
Since Eric bought his rig used, are there not comparable Sprinter-ish setups on the used market for $80k? or is still a crazy post-COVID inflated market?
 

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
16,425
13,755
Since Eric bought his rig used, are there not comparable Sprinter-ish setups on the used market for $80k? or is still a crazy post-COVID inflated market?

:p
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,930
8,097
Actually had a 1,500 lb towing capacity!

The trailer looks to be a Sunray 139T with the rear door. 1,980 lb unloaded.
 

Jozz

Joe Dalton
Apr 18, 2002
5,914
7,469
SADL
Since Eric bought his rig used, are there not comparable Sprinter-ish setups on the used market for $80k? or is still a crazy post-COVID inflated market?
Well, if we talk budget. My 2012 van was bought in 2014 and it had 4k miles on the odo. It was $42k cdn. I "invested" $12k cdn for all the camper stuff (Solar, b2b, batt, dc fridge, awning, stove, diesel heater, mattress, insulation, etc.) I don't have full amenities. No shower, no sink, no water tank, no bathroom. We like to camp. ;) Our setup is more like those early Outside Van set up. Not full on RV.
When we built the house I removed the bed and the stove cabinet and bench and the van transformed into a work van able to carry shit loads of stuff and save on delivery cost.

330678336_506664791625006_3919320738751468543_n.png
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,930
8,097
Well, if we talk budget. My 2012 van was bought in 2014 and it had 4k miles on the odo. It was $42k cdn. I "invested" $12k cdn for all the camper stuff (Solar, b2b, batt, dc fridge, awning, stove, diesel heater, mattress, insulation, etc.) I don't have full amenities. No shower, no sink, no water tank, no bathroom. We like to camp. ;) Our setup is more like those early Outside Van set up. Not full on RV.
When we built the house I removed the bed and the stove cabinet and bench and the van transformed into a work van able to carry shit loads of stuff and save on delivery cost.
That's awesome. Not having the superfluous shower/toilet/etc. stuff is similarly what I had in mind to come up with miraculous extra space for my hypothetical perfect van for me:

if there were a 200 mile range, AWD, all electric Sprinter with 5 belted positions and sleeping for the same (via a popup?) then I would likely have one, yes

oh, with the adult bed a legit domestic/72" King width please
King bed that pulls up to the ceiling. Bunks for kids hanging off one wall, folded up when not needed. Popup in roof for the extra kid. Seating along the other wall, maybe a bench? Add in a small cabinet area with a fridge, tiny induction cooktop, microwave, some solar on the roof and a battery to match, voila.

Of course, I don't need any of this. But that'd rock.
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
41,921
14,059
Portland, OR
Well, if we talk budget. My 2012 van was bought in 2014 and it had 4k miles on the odo. It was $42k cdn. I "invested" $12k cdn for all the camper stuff (Solar, b2b, batt, dc fridge, awning, stove, diesel heater, mattress, insulation, etc.) I don't have full amenities. No shower, no sink, no water tank, no bathroom. We like to camp. ;) Our setup is more like those early Outside Van set up. Not full on RV.
When we built the house I removed the bed and the stove cabinet and bench and the van transformed into a work van able to carry shit loads of stuff and save on delivery cost.

View attachment 189262
I'm right at $18k or so on mine. The toilet was the second thing I did after our first trip out. The late night trek to the can was enough for the wife to insist that was next. I'm still on the fence with the shower. If I can do a recirculating then I will. But a regular shower can blow through my fresh water (22ish gallons).
 

Jozz

Joe Dalton
Apr 18, 2002
5,914
7,469
SADL
That's awesome. Not having the superfluous shower/toilet/etc. stuff is similarly what I had in mind to come up with miraculous extra space for my hypothetical perfect van for me:



King bed that pulls up to the ceiling. Bunks for kids hanging off one wall, folded up when not needed. Popup in roof for the extra kid. Seating along the other wall, maybe a bench? Add in a small cabinet area with a fridge, tiny induction cooktop, microwave, some solar on the roof and a battery to match, voila.

Of course, I don't need any of this. But that'd rock.
You would need to go EW with the bed to get your king size to fit. Sprinter wall to wall is 63 inches.

Edit, and you would need pods to get the proper length. Thus cancelling the possibility of a bed on a lift.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,930
8,097
King bed that pulls up to the ceiling. Bunks for kids hanging off one wall, folded up when not needed. Popup in roof for the extra kid. Seating along the other wall, maybe a bench? Add in a small cabinet area with a fridge, tiny induction cooktop, microwave, some solar on the roof and a battery to match, voila.

Of course, I don't need any of this. But that'd rock.
like this


but electric. and not $180k
 

Jozz

Joe Dalton
Apr 18, 2002
5,914
7,469
SADL
I’m sure electric that will go more than 100 Mountain miles is gonna be $280k, or even more if it is well appointed.
What I find intriguing is how you're not going to go above payload with the size and weight of the batteries. A lot of full on RV Sprinters are already flirting with that max payload.
 
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