[Toshi]

You must be including stuff not strictly debt in that $54T figure (ie, not comparing apples to apples), because wikipedia reports that US debt-to-GDP is around 60%

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:PublicDebtTriade.PNG

 

[mandown]

I call bunk. Greece has less debt because their credit is worthless.
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/BUSINESS/06/13/greece.debt.rating.ft/index.html

Standard & Poor's cut Greece's long-term sovereign credit rating by three notches to triple C, a sign the rating agency thinks it will be forced to downgrade Athens to default -- or D -- as private creditors are likely to be involved in the country's next bail-out.

Greece is now the lowest-rated sovereign in the world, below Ecuador, Jamaica, Pakistan and Grenada. The agency said: "In our view, Greece is increasingly likely to restructure its debt in a manner that, under the conditions of any package of additional funding provided by Greece's official creditors, would result in one or more defaults under our criteria."

Greek 10-year bond yields jumped to more than 17 per cent for the second time this year, before closing at 16.97 per cent in response to the S&P move, which puts Athens only four notches above default.

Despite the current situation, the US is still hanging on to AAA, for now.

 

[Silver]

while you're having good sport w/ me, let's do the comparison, shall we?
- greek gdp: $389B [debt $500B]
- us gdp: $14000B [debt $54000B]

so it looks like greece -- and by extension europe -- is doing a lot better by this rough measure


hurrrrrrrrr

The homeless crackhead on the corner carries less debt than Newt Gingrich.

Clearly, the homeless crackhead is in better financial shape.

Is this really the new radio talking point? That's sad.

 

[$tinkle]

The homeless crackhead on the corner carries less debt than Newt Gingrich.

Clearly, the homeless crackhead is in better financial shape.

and if newt's debts were called, he could liquidate his assets [that don't require a buyer, of course], pay them & have a surplus large enough for 3 million greek bum orgies.

oh, and the homeless crackheads wouldn't be able to pay for their own gonorrhea meds. that bill would go to newt & his out-of-work staffers. so in that regard, the moochers are admittedly in "better financial shape" when others are mandated to carry their debts for them

don't make me defend newt again; i just ate



for toshi: http://www.usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html
[actually, that's for all of us]

 

[Toshi]

External debt denominated in the country's home currency. More semantics, misleading, too (look at Japan!). Anyway, even if that is accurate we're not out of line by any means.

 

[$tinkle]

How the US debt ceiling could hit your finances

 

[Westy]

The Problem with the 'cut and cap' deal

 

[mandown]

Anyone else here shocked by the number of their friends with no idea about this issue even existing?

 

[stevew]

The Problem with the 'cut and cap' deal

lawmakers are wasting precious time needed to pass a debt ceiling increase before Aug. 2.

they have been wasting this "precious time" for about 6-12 months.

 

[rockofullr]

The Problem with the 'cut and cap' deal

Everything?

 

[rockofullr]

Oh great Gang of Six, I beseech thee; deliver us from the crazies.

 

[$tinkle]

ok, but it will cost you

 

[rockofullr]

doesn't it always?

 

[$tinkle]

no, not always

 

[$tinkle]

/froth

 

[heavy metal]

the McConnell plan is a bullsh!t political bear trap that mr. compromise will probably end up signing anyway. Why don't the Republicans stop playing russian roulette with our country and grow enough sack to vote up the debt ceiling. Actually why don't democrats cultivate some form spine and tell the country like it is, republicans are willing to play economic terrorist in order to save the rich kids a few percentage points in taxes.

Our politicians are fvcking pathetic. But hey maybe they're just a reflection of the American people. We get what we deserve.

 

[dante]

You know what I just realized? The silence is deafening with regards to the lack of "grassroots" tea party bull**** commercials... No American Crossroads, Freedom Works or Americans for Prosperity ads being shown on tv. Nothing from the US Chamber of Commerce either, but other than an editorial by the CoC head, they've been silent, unlike pretty much any other debate we've had in this country...

I wonder how much backroom threatening is going on between all of them and the GOP these days?

 

[mandown]

I'm waiting for the market to tank on 8/3, then buying a sheetton of Apple stock at low, low prices so I can unload it in September when the consumer market pounces on the newest glossy Apple toy in an orgasm of frivolity that will impregnate my investment.

 

[stoney]

I'm waiting for the market to tank on 8/3, then buying a sheetton of Apple stock at low, low prices so I can unload it in September when the consumer market pounces on the newest glossy Apple toy in an orgasm of frivolity that will impregnate my investment.

Please do yourself a favor and read 'security analysis' and 'the intelligent investor'.

 

[mandown]

you telling me those books are smarter than my current system?

 

[Toshi]

I'm waiting for the market to tank on 8/3, then buying a sheetton of Apple stock at low, low prices so I can unload it in September when the consumer market pounces on the newest glossy Apple toy in an orgasm of frivolity that will impregnate my investment.

I migrated my IRA funds into a 100% energy stock mix this past week. No more bond exposure, no more general stock market exposure. I figure of any companies out there, they'll be the ones that are most closely tied with global growth rather than being too closely associated with our dysfunctional domestic economy and political system.

 

[dante]

Boehner just proved that the one absolute truth in Washington still exists: Do NOT be the one to give a "rebuttal" to the President's address to the nation...

 

[Beef Supreme]

Boehner just proved that the one absolute truth in Washington still exists: Do NOT be the one to give a "rebuttal" to the President's address to the nation...

You obviously haven't seen the coverage on CNN. Their absolute truth - that there is a controversy, with two sides - apparently trumps your absolute truth.

 

[TheMontashu]

You obviously haven't seen the coverage on CNN. Their absolute truth - that there is a controversy, with two sides - apparently trumps your absolute truth.

But the other side is all lies.

 

[jimmydean]

Steve Jobs lol's.

Apple's quarterly financial report shows that the company responsible for the iPad, iPod and the iPhone now has $76.4 billion in reserve cash, while the Treasury Department is sitting on just $73.7 billion.

 

[zdubyadubya]

Steve Jobs lol's.

which is why at every available opportunity (for the last six years I might add) every single one of my available "investment" dollars that come up goes straight toward AAPL.

 

[Beef Supreme]

I have been waiting to hear something like this. It's about time.

 

[dante]

I think that the biggest takeaway from this is "America isn't serious (at all) about solving it's debt problem." America is facing 2 different/distinct debt problems:

1) Short-term: Revenue has fallen far below current spending. The *only* way this can be resolved is through raising tax revenue, combined with reasonably sized-spending cuts. There's no way to cut our way out of this hole, when we're running a debt that's higher than double our spending on the DoD. Entitlement programs have nothing to do with this, since they have (so far) almost always brought in more in separate tax revenue than they've had to pay out. The Republicans REFUSE to do anything about this.

2) Long-term. This is entitlements and health care spending. This has to change, whether by increasing revenues (raising SS taxes, for instance) or decreasing payouts/benefits/cost (no clue on how to control Medicare costs). The Democrats aren't going to touch this without MAJOR concessions by the Republicans.

As long as the Republicans keep their "OMFG, no taxes!!!!" mantra, look to see the financial situation in this country go (further) down the drain.

 

[dante]

Senate rejects house bill. That was easy.

At the other end of the Capitol, Senate Democrats scuttled the measure without so much as a debate on its merits. The vote was 59-41, with all Democrats, two independents and six Republicans joining in opposition.

edit: Ok, here's where it gets interesting. The 6 GOP votes for tabling were, for the most part, *conservative* Senators: DeMint, S.C.; Graham, S.C.; Hatch, Utah; Lee, Utah; Paul, Ky.; Vitter, La. It's not like it was Snowe, Collins, Brown, Merkowski, etc. Graham is a reasonable moderate, but he's S.C. which is a HUGE hotbed of teabagger conservatives. Most of the House members who voted no on the original bill were from S.C.

So...... a) Will the dipsh!ts in the Senate actually filibuster us into default and b) can the Democrats round up 7-10 moderate GOP members to overcome it? Normally I'd say that anyone who filibustered us into default should be shot as a traitor to the country, but there are probably enough TeaTards in the Senate to do just that.

 

[Pesqueeb]

So...... a) Will the dipsh!ts in the Senate actually filibuster us into default

Yes. This whole argument has officially gone full retard. It would be nice to be proven wrong but at this point I don't think its going to happen.

 

[$tinkle]

Yes. This whole argument has officially gone full retard. It would be nice to be proven wrong but at this point I don't think its going to happen.

full retard? or full circle?

But when legislation only has the support of the minority, the filibuster slows the legislation …prevents a Senator from ramming it through…and gives the American people enough time join the opposition.

Mr. President, the right to extended debate is never more important than when one party controls Congress and the White House. In these cases, the filibuster serves as a check on power and preserves our limited government.

Right now, the only check on President Bush is the Democrats ability to voice their concern in the Senate. If Republicans rollback our rights in this Chamber, there will be no check on their power. The radical, right wing will be free to pursue any agenda they want.

there are few (if any) good guys on the Hill

"it's a huge **** sandwich, and we're all gonna have to take a bite". - lt. lockhart


ok, screw this; it's nice outside

 

[dante]

But when legislation only has the support of the minority, the filibuster slows the legislation …prevents a Senator from ramming it through…and gives the American people enough time join the opposition.

ok, screw this; it's nice outside

I still maintain that there needs to be a return to OLD FASHIONED FILIBUSTERING. Get up, talk for hours on end, read from the DC phone book, or explain over and over again why you believe in your case. Completely shut everything down, no business gets done, no other laws get passed, if you're THAT confident in your position, you should have no problem explaining to the American public why you don't want taxes increased on millionaires, or that the debt default *really* won't hurt America, etc. This whole "silent filibuster" is complete and utter bullsh!t.

 

[X3pilot]

I still maintain that there needs to be a return to OLD FASHIONED FILIBUSTERING. Get up, talk for hours on end, read from the DC phone book, or explain over and over again why you believe in your case. Completely shut everything down, no business gets done, no other laws get passed, if you're THAT confident in your position, you should have no problem explaining to the American public why you don't want taxes increased on millionaires, or that the debt default *really* won't hurt America, etc. This whole "silent filibuster" is complete and utter bullsh!t.

Yes, yes and yes. IF this were about actual belief in a position, morals, honor, desire to stand for convictions, a thousand times YES!

THIS circus is pandering, posturing, fear of reelection and the Tea Party's attempt to throw red meat to their base, all the while not realizing they have become victims of their success.

Screw the balanced budget amendment, I want a term limit amendment!

 

[Westy]

Steve Jobs lol's.

Exactly why we need to cut taxes.

 

[X3pilot]

All five of the House Republicans from South Carolina were withholding their support of Boehner’s plan. One of the delegation members was seeking some higher guidance. Rep. Tim Scott (R-S.C.) said late Thursday, “I was a lean no. Now I’m a no,” said Rep. Tim Scott (R-S.C.) as he and others left the House Chapel where they went to pray late Thursday evening.

I wonder what Carl's Jr. told them...

 

[DaveW]

Exactly why we need to cut taxes.

Surely to be good capitalists you should cut overheads and increase revenue?
Instead of the current right wing plan of cut revenue and keep the same level of overheads or increase overheads?

 

[zdubyadubya]

call me ignorant, but why again is a constitutional amendment a bad idea?

since there appears to be no way for the house and senate to agree on anything and it appears that our country is going to tank itself of ideologies. what would be wrong with taking Obama's plan of a couple weeks ago and then just adding an amendment to it that the budget needs to be balanced say 10 years from now and from then on... ? democrats are happy and the repubs get their hostage.

 

[mandown]

one reason it is a bad idea, is because it will take forever to craft and agree upon. there will need to be clauses for emergency violations such as defense and disaster issues. i can only imagine the wrestling match that would turn into.

though, in theory, a balanced budget would be comforting on many levels.

 

[Silver]

I wonder what Carl's Jr. told them...

You know, if legislators anywhere else were doing that, we'd laugh at them.

What a ****ing moron country we live in.

 

[$tinkle]

This whole "silent filibuster" is complete and utter bullsh!t.

agreeance