[JRB]

I am thinking about trying to find a good coil shock for my jamis. I know it will make it weigh more, but would there be any real draw backs to going with a coil? I am wanting a Vanilla RC or a Romic to put on. It looks like it will gain like 3/4 pounds, but should be way more plush. I don't like the swinger on this bike, it feels dead. The Float with Pro pedal is nice, but to get it plush, it bottoms. Ideas - besides a new frame.

 

[I Are Baboon]

The Float with Pro pedal is nice, but to get it plush, it bottoms. Ideas - besides a new frame.

I have the Vanilla RC with Propedal. The only time it bottoms is on 6-8 foot drops. Do you do a lot of that stuff? Otherwise, it feels very plush. I love mine.

 

[dwaugh]

If it makes the ride better, who cares if it adds any weight?

 

[Westy]

Air shocks have a rising rate and coils a linear rate. If the frame was designed around an air shock things could get a bit screwy on you, but maybe not. Does Jamis sell a version of the frame with a coil?

 

[JRB]

Air shocks have a rising rate and coils a linear rate. If the frame was designed around an air shock things could get a bit screwy on you, but maybe not. Does Jamis sell a version of the frame with a coil?

The old ones did have it. The new ones are all air. Would an air sleeve on the Float work??? Can you put an AVA sleeve on an 04 with pro pedal??? I just wondered how a coil would feel. I may try to find one to borrow and try. I'm sure my reducers would work in any Fox shock.

 

[JRB]

I have the Vanilla RC with Propedal. The only time it bottoms is on 6-8 foot drops. Do you do a lot of that stuff? Otherwise, it feels very plush. I love mine.

No big drops for me. I'm scared.

dwaugh - no worries on the weight. I don't like heavy wheels, but the frame doesn't bug me too much.

 

[Westy]

I just re-read your original post, looks like both shocks you have tried have some kind of platform valving. I would try something with a regular old fashioned valving. If you are bottoming out the float propedal with a rising rate shock a linear spring may not help. A coil shock has less friction than an air one but not by much.

 

[JRB]

yeah - I wondered if I should put the swinger on, dump all but the minimum SPV air and deal with bobbing. This would allow me to air up and use less sag if this shock truly acts as it is supposed to. I am just tired of screwing with that shock. I may speed the rebound up and see if it is less dead feeling. I don't know what the deal is with that, since the Salsa liked that shock so well.

 

[Westy]

IMO too much rebound can definately make a shock feel like crap. I like to set my rebound like this: back the rebound out most of the way (bouncy like). Stand up a bit off the saddle then drop your ass down (don't squish the boys). Slowly increase the rebound damping until things get critically damped. In other words the suspension compresses, rebounds and stops/doesn't compress again.

 

[binary visions]

Air shocks have a rising rate and coils a linear rate. If the frame was designed around an air shock things could get a bit screwy on you, but maybe not. Does Jamis sell a version of the frame with a coil?

Not all shocks have a linear rate. Air shocks are progressive by nature, but the current crop of SPV coil shocks are progressive as well.

Also, there are plenty of frames on the market that have regressive or linear suspension rates that still use standard Vanilla RCs.

Anyhow... I like coil shocks simply for the point that if they blow, I can ride out of the woods albeit with an undamped bike. If an air shock blows, you'll destroy the shock completely trying to ride out, not to mention you'd be riding on a super slack hardtail.

I think trying your Swinger with a minimal amount of platform pressure would be a good idea. Maybe something is wrong with your Float, though? You must be using less pressure than recommended if you're bottoming it a lot not doing drops - but you shouldn't have to use a lot less than recommended pressure in order to make it feel plush.

 

[MMcG]

Who can put into layman's terms what a progressive shock feels like, what a linear shock feels like and what a falling rate and rising rate shock feels like? I never can keep all that stuff straight in my brain.

 

[binary visions]

Who can put into layman's terms what a progressive shock feels like, what a linear shock feels like and what a falling rate and rising rate shock feels like? I never can keep all that stuff straight in my brain.

Sure, it's easy.

A progressive rate (rising rate) suspension uses the same amount of shock stroke to achieve less and less travel as the suspension cycles. In the saddle, that feels like you have more and more compression damping towards the end of the shock stroke - i.e., starts soft, and is still hard to bottom out.

A linear rate feels exactly the same all the way through the stroke.

A regressive rate (falling rate) is the opposite of a progressive rate - it actually gets easier to compress the further you get into the stroke.

 

[binary visions]

Clarification on progressive:

If you had a 3" stroke shock to achieve 8" of rear wheel travel, maybe the first 1" of stroke would give you 3.75" of rear wheel travel, the second inch of shock stroke will give you 2.5" of travel, and the final inch of stroke will give you 1.75" of travel. That's not a realistic example, but you get the idea

It puts less and less leverage on the spring, so it's harder and harder to achieve that travel.

 

[MMcG]

Thanks Binary - expamples of some FS bikes that have
progressive
Linear
Rising rate
falling rate

suspension designs?

For example:
What about the Heckler?
What about teh Yeti?
What about the DW link bikes?
What about the FSR type bikes (enduros, Turners, etc.)
What about 4 bar bikes (Konas, Ventanas, etc. etc.)

 

[binary visions]

For example:
What about the Heckler?
What about teh Yeti?
What about the DW link bikes?
What about the FSR type bikes (enduros, Turners, etc.)
What about 4 bar bikes (Konas, Ventanas, etc. etc.)

Uhm, okay I don't want to get too deep into that - I know there's a way to tell whether or not a suspension design is progressive by looking at it, but I was never quite clear on it and have not yet sought clarification. I'm sure Zedro could help you out with that.

Suffice to say: single pivot, non linkage bikes (Heckler, Bullit) are typically linear or regressive. AFAIK, you can't effectively make a non-linkage bike progressive.

The Yeti is progressive. So are the Kona 4-bars. The Turner DHR & RFX are progressive. However, it's not as simple as saying "all four bar frames are progressive" - for instance, on the Konas there are two shock mounting holes that changes the progressive properties of the frame (or at least, they used to have it).

 

[math2014]

BV what about an Enduro FSR? is that progressive?

I am wondering, coz i want to calculate how much my chainstay will extend if i increase the shock length.

 

[binary visions]

BV what about an Enduro FSR? is that progressive?

I am wondering, coz i want to calculate how much my chainstay will extend if i increase the shock length.

I don't know specifically about the Enduro.

However, it shouldn't make any kind of noticable difference. Travel/stroke length will give you the amount of suspension compression for a given inch of stroke, and the rate isn't going to have a huge affect on anything.

Headangle and BB height are what you should be worrying about with that kind of change.

 

[math2014]

well if the leverage ratio is constant at 2.6-1 , 1" of shock length increase would result in a 2.6" raise of the rear end...