Saw and interesting website about this...tell me what you think...is it possible to be moral and not religious?
Discuss...
Discuss...
Can you be Moral without God?
- Thread starter LeatherFace
- Start date
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M.W.
Guest
Yes.
You don't have to believe in God to be a good person.
I'd like to think that people are capable of being good to each other without the only reason for it being the fear of consequences from an all-powerful God.
You don't have to believe in God to be a good person.
I'd like to think that people are capable of being good to each other without the only reason for it being the fear of consequences from an all-powerful God.
Of course you can be moral without being religious. Religious people might dispute this, and religious leaders definitely want everyone to believe the opposite: go to church, discover morality, and go to heaven! (And while you're in church, drop some money in the collection plate when it's passed your way.) The ironic truth, however, is that often the pillars of these congregations are the epitome of immorality, as evidenced by the many scandals of the Catholic church, both past and present. . .
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gravity
Guest
morals are not a standard without a specific layout eg religion. so yes, but you could be "moral" but still be a terrorist. no doubt Osama believes he is doing the right thing, but we disagree.
Separate God with Religion first of all. Religions are institutions of man. Morals are part learned and part instilled i believe. Morals change with times, and well they should, whether the pendulem sways one way or back again. They develop out of necessity for a society to be able to live with each other without conflict. Lessons that are handed down. If a certain collective belief wants to take credit for the idea, or the claim to have the ability to keep with the moral intact and operational, well goody two shoes for them. But i suspect that the important ones were around before all these religions were formed, and will continue even after they fold(if ever).
"Morality as we know it cannot be maintained without Judeo-Christian religion."- Daniel P. Moloney, Associate Editor of First Things, the Journal of Religion and Public Life, quoted from "Scary Quotations" at positiveatheism.org.
"There is no such thing as separation of church and state in the Constitution. It is a lie of the Left and we are not going to take it anymore."- Pat Robertson, in an address to his American Center for Law and Justice, November, 1993.
I am an animist and I think that I lead a good life. I believe that the body and spirit are separate and that there is a god, or gods, but I don't believe that there is one single benevolent god.
If they want to call people that aren't a member of their congregation immoral, they're welcome to. I've found the right way for me to live, and I don't care what anybody else says about it.
If they want to call people that aren't a member of their congregation immoral, they're welcome to. I've found the right way for me to live, and I don't care what anybody else says about it.
What the Constitution says is the the goverment will establish no religion. Not an exact qoute. This was to stop the establishment of a state church like the Church of England. The idea was to make the religions of all people equal not to remove religion from our everyday lives.
PS I am not a support of Pat Roberton's belief that the religion he supports is the only ture religion.
"A man's ethical behaviour should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hopes of reward after death."- Albert Einstein, in an article which appeared in New York Times Magazine, November 9, 1930.
i don't lie, cheat, or steal. i have never killed, i am rather unenvious(is that a word) of other peoples possesions. i honor my mother and father. i keep my word. i am dedicating the rest of my life to helping the poor. so by a christian standpoint i am a fairly moral person but i dont believe in god soooooo anything good that i have ever done or will ever do has no meaning because i dont believe in god. i dont believe that. i try my hardest everyday to live the best possible life i can. everyday i set standards for myself. morals that i place on myself. i dont need a higher power to tell me that im a good prson or how to live my life, i already know.
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a13x
Guest
anybody who thinks you CANNOT be moral without God is a staight up ass. Simple as that.
morals are not a religious creation, but a societal one. as was said before, morals change with the times to reflect the beliefs of the society. in my estimation, many of the morals in our society have come from the influence of relgious worship in society. this is a terrible thing in my mind. i see it as a minority creating laws of morality for the majority, and perpetrating this through the government, the media, and a capitalist economy.
so, without religion, it would still be possible for morality to exist, as i believe humanity has no trouble creating a common morality, or better yet, leaving each to create his own morality (as long as this pursuit does not interfere with another person's freedom), and having that be the common morality. religion only serves to skew people's beliefs about what is and what isn't moral, and this in turn causes them to attempt to interfere with the actions and beliefs of others.
i agree very much with the writing of John Stuart Mill, and much of his writing supports what i have just proposed, especially On Liberty. i think it's worth a read for anyone who professes to support true democracy.
ben.
so, without religion, it would still be possible for morality to exist, as i believe humanity has no trouble creating a common morality, or better yet, leaving each to create his own morality (as long as this pursuit does not interfere with another person's freedom), and having that be the common morality. religion only serves to skew people's beliefs about what is and what isn't moral, and this in turn causes them to attempt to interfere with the actions and beliefs of others.
i agree very much with the writing of John Stuart Mill, and much of his writing supports what i have just proposed, especially On Liberty. i think it's worth a read for anyone who professes to support true democracy.
ben.
This is ridiculous, I myself do not even believe in God or any God(s) for that matter, and I believe I am for the most part a moral person.
I have yet to meet a religious person who meets my moral standards. I'm not saying they don't exist, but I haven't met them yet. I am as far from religious as you can get.
Hey, what about me? jeese!!!
Morals are rules that allow poeple to participate in a society. Nothing more, nothing less. If a society is a religious one, then you can't be moral without being religious, as far as they are concerned. But if the society is secular, not a problem.
People who are moral are serving their own self interest since being moral allows them the benefits of membership of a society. There is nothing religious or altruistic about morality.
People who are moral are serving their own self interest since being moral allows them the benefits of membership of a society. There is nothing religious or altruistic about morality.
C'mon Alex...
What you said may be true, (or may not).
But the way you phrase it is sure to be a flame towards someone.
Couldn't you just say something like:
"IMO, anybody who thinks you CANNOT be moral without God is wrong. Simple as that. "
No need to call people an A$$, though you ARE allowed to think it.
and I`am horny does this make me immoral ,I know not even if I look at nekid women 
,I think the whole church deal is disturbing ,they can do what ever they want :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:
,I think the whole church deal is disturbing ,they can do what ever they want :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:
I would like to go out of my way to point something out.
Obviously we're all allowed to have our seperate viewpoints. That's what makes us different as people. However, just because someone holds a specific viewpoint, doesn't mean it automatically makes them an 'ass.' (For the sake of censorship, I'm using the word for 'male donkey' and not the word for 'posterior.')
Personally, while I believe that you can be 'moral' without God, I also believe that they shouldn't be based solely on society and what it thinks. I believe it should be somewhat 'separate' from society....in other words, sort of 'held above' society. For instance, what if we lived in a land of cannibals who ate anyone older than the age of 40, and you refused to eat anything but salads? Would you be immoral simply because you preferred salads?
Obviously this is a poor example. But you get my drift. I believe that morals without a Supreme Being behind them ARE possible...but at the same time I believe that there are right AND wrong moral standards, and of course since I'm Christian, I believe that the morals that are derived from the Book, and God's word, are the correct morals. (Even though this makes me an ass.)
Obviously we're all allowed to have our seperate viewpoints. That's what makes us different as people. However, just because someone holds a specific viewpoint, doesn't mean it automatically makes them an 'ass.' (For the sake of censorship, I'm using the word for 'male donkey' and not the word for 'posterior.'
) Personally, while I believe that you can be 'moral' without God, I also believe that they shouldn't be based solely on society and what it thinks. I believe it should be somewhat 'separate' from society....in other words, sort of 'held above' society. For instance, what if we lived in a land of cannibals who ate anyone older than the age of 40, and you refused to eat anything but salads? Would you be immoral simply because you preferred salads?
Obviously this is a poor example. But you get my drift. I believe that morals without a Supreme Being behind them ARE possible...but at the same time I believe that there are right AND wrong moral standards, and of course since I'm Christian, I believe that the morals that are derived from the Book, and God's word, are the correct morals. (Even though this makes me an ass.
)
I"m not going into morals or what not but my parents sent me to Cathlic school when I was growing up (and then Singapore, Hong Kong ,and finally military school). But I always had this theory that the Devil wasn't really a "bad" person. What if he just had a difference of opinion? I mean we've all played that game where you tell one person a story and that person tries to tell the same story as they remember it to someone else and so on and so forth ..until the story takes on a life of its own. So in the same way the people who wrote bible might have perverted the truth. But anyways i would argue this with the priests that ran the place and would always find myself in detention for disturbing the class because I wouldn't let it go and the priests couldn't come up with a good enough answer that I didn't have a argument for. I recently heard Tom Clancy in an interview where he says it has become ok to hate christianity because it is no longer socially accepted to hate black people. He says this hatred of Christianity is the most heinous because it is "pure". Personally I don't thing that hating Christianity has become "popular" because its no longer socially acceptable to hate black people, I think its because people are waking up to the evil that has been done in the name and support of the church. Anyways I'm a non practicing Buddhist.
I'd like to point out (again) that it is the Catholic religious ESTABLISHMENT that has caused so many problems over the centuries - NOT the actual Catholic people themselves. There are plenty of Catholics who are messed up - as well of plenty of Protestants, Methodists, etc., you get the point - but it is usually those people who give the religious establishment a bad name ..... the entire Catholic body didn't get together and decide to commit the evils that have been committed.
And no, the people who wrote the Bible didn't pervert the truth. I can't prove why in a short paragraph or two...it takes much longer than that. But for a short response, remember that almost all of the Christians around the turn of the century were converted Jews. Go study the Jewish scribes, and their profession, the rules they followed when they wrote scripture, etc. They wouldn't have allowed it to become corrupted. There is more doubt to the words that Shakespeare actually spoke/wrote (from a historical/archaeological/literary standpoint) than there is doubt as to the words that Jesus spoke, and the words contained in the Bible.
And no, the people who wrote the Bible didn't pervert the truth. I can't prove why in a short paragraph or two...it takes much longer than that. But for a short response, remember that almost all of the Christians around the turn of the century were converted Jews. Go study the Jewish scribes, and their profession, the rules they followed when they wrote scripture, etc. They wouldn't have allowed it to become corrupted. There is more doubt to the words that Shakespeare actually spoke/wrote (from a historical/archaeological/literary standpoint) than there is doubt as to the words that Jesus spoke, and the words contained in the Bible.
Just curious without Catholisism do you think Christianity would have survived?
Just thought i'd dilute and defocus off the main topic even further.
Just thought i'd dilute and defocus off the main topic even further.
Yes, I do. That's one of the things that is interesting about Christianity (and other large religions, such as Islam, in general). They flourish under persecution. Christianity was doing well before it was institutionalized. Then the 'fun' began.
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gravity
Guest
i'm supposedly a Catholic..... what's the difference between all the subdivisions of Christianity? ie how is say Catholicism different to Protestantism?
I would answer that but it's 20 past 6 in the morning and no coffee yet, so I'll wait, to make sure I don't say something dumb.
Although I do this plenty when I am fully awake.
Although I do this plenty when I am fully awake.
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Zonic Man
Guest
I like the brazen call it as you see it attitude.
Too many people get their panties all bunched up over nothing around here. Too many precious little teddy bears, if you ask me.
I say you CAN'T be moral without believing in God. So there.
To be honest, not believing in a certain God doesn't make a PERSON immoral.
Lemme explain this. I'd think it would make those decisions that person made, that didn't specifically line up with what that religion taught (for the sake of this discussion, we'll assume the Christian God), immoral.
For instance, while turning the other cheek is definitely the 'moral' (good) thing for a Christian to do, it doesn't suddenly become the immoral thing to do for a non-Christian. That would mean that handing out beatdowns would be the moral thing to do. (Which would make a lot of people happy
)
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Zonic Man
Guest
I was kidding!
Who am I to say who is moral and who is not? Kinda like saying I know who's going to go to heaven and who isn't. That would be pompus, arrogant, and ignorant of me.
Can you be an immoral god?
-TNF
-TNF
Well, I personally can't. I have trouble remembering to do the wash.