I think it's easier to scrub anything if you run clipless.
Can you really scrub a bike?
- Thread starter skiforfree33
- Start date
Micro-Sanjay makes an appearance.
The point of scrubbing is to lose speed right on the jump (braking before the jump makes you go slower into the jump and thus have slower lap) and to keep closer to the ground so you hit it earlier and get back on the gas as soon as possible. It also makes for a smoother landning if you haven't been way up in the air.
R
rb92078
Guest
The term scrub means exactly that. To scrub speed. By doing this you are "scrubbing" your speed without hitting your brakes. If done right it causes a much smoother deceleration than hitting your brakes, which in turn allows you to get back on the ground with spinning wheels and keep your speed.
Also keep in mind in a downhill race being on the ground is always faster as you are being pushed by gravity and momentum. Once you leave the ground you are only being pushed by your momentum which loses its strength very quick.
Obviously if there are big obstacles like rock gardens, doubles, or anything of the sort being in the air will be quicker.
Also keep in mind in a downhill race being on the ground is always faster as you are being pushed by gravity and momentum. Once you leave the ground you are only being pushed by your momentum which loses its strength very quick.
Obviously if there are big obstacles like rock gardens, doubles, or anything of the sort being in the air will be quicker.
Did you do any physics at all? Are you saying that gravity doesn't act if you're not touching the ground?
Can you explain how you 'scrub speed' while you're in the air?
gravity only acts vertical while you're not on the ground. so the only ting that is pushing foreward while you're in the air is the momentum.
You drift BOTH tires off the lip so you "scrub" the vertical element of your jump, and maintain all (or close to all) of your forward momentum, at least moreso than a basic "squash" of the lip.
Wow, so many things in that comment defy the laws of physics and common sense.
Why would you scrub to lose speed? That doesn't make any sense at all.....you have these things, they're called brakes....
Can you really scrub a significant amount of speed by scrubbing? I was always under the impression that scrubbing was a way of getting your wheels on the ground quicker by taking the kick out of the lip, just like sucking up a jump (but a lot cooler looking).
Who cares? Someone post more pics and vids instead.
what he said
scrub = to keep low and momentum forward and back to the ground as soon as possible.
The idea is to get through faster, not to slow down by any means.
A bike can be scrubbed for sure. Can y'all scrub like Bubba? doubt it - I know I can't.
The idea is to get through faster, not to slow down by any means.
A bike can be scrubbed for sure. Can y'all scrub like Bubba? doubt it - I know I can't.
motomike:
that video is really funny. Almost nowhere does he gain any advantage via the scrub. In fact, in one shot one rider doesn't scrub like he does and lands sooner. hmm.....I think JeffD has the right idea.
that video is really funny. Almost nowhere does he gain any advantage via the scrub. In fact, in one shot one rider doesn't scrub like he does and lands sooner. hmm.....I think JeffD has the right idea.
I noticed that too, was it the second shot? The other rider did land sooner than him, but bubba did pass him in the air too! There seems to be a place for scrubs in certain situations, but not all.
Riding a bicycle is much different than a motorcycle and I really don't ever see anyone doing a real "scrub" on a bike. Where I'm from we call it a "squanch" on a bike. Staying low as possible but not technically a bubba scrub because you need a motorcycle for that
Riding a bicycle is much different than a motorcycle and I really don't ever see anyone doing a real "scrub" on a bike. Where I'm from we call it a "squanch" on a bike. Staying low as possible but not technically a bubba scrub because you need a motorcycle for that
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/1UKbfwoCRHU&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/1UKbfwoCRHU&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
this is the full video of the pass bubba does on RC that is in motomike's video. He picks up several bike lengths on RC.
Again, the scrub is to stay low and keep forward velocity. You do not try to slow down.
Anyone want to discuss the physics of a seat bounce? And no, you can't do that on a bicycle.
On a related note, anyone going to Red Bud this weekend? If so, PM me. I am headed there for amatuer practice tomorrow morning and then wathing the pro race on Saturday.
this is the full video of the pass bubba does on RC that is in motomike's video. He picks up several bike lengths on RC.
Again, the scrub is to stay low and keep forward velocity. You do not try to slow down.
Anyone want to discuss the physics of a seat bounce? And no, you can't do that on a bicycle.
On a related note, anyone going to Red Bud this weekend? If so, PM me. I am headed there for amatuer practice tomorrow morning and then wathing the pro race on Saturday.
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This is eggs-act-lee what I was getting at a while ago.
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=218827
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=218827
this is the opposite of a scrub:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/v7CsK6Pet4U&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/v7CsK6Pet4U&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>
I double this jump and I am still freaked out everytime I hit it. I can not imagine tripling it.
here is some more Red Bud action:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/DIEdXMpEqpU&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/DIEdXMpEqpU&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Uo2Rxyoaxaw&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Uo2Rxyoaxaw&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/v7CsK6Pet4U&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/v7CsK6Pet4U&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>
I double this jump and I am still freaked out everytime I hit it. I can not imagine tripling it.
here is some more Red Bud action:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/DIEdXMpEqpU&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/DIEdXMpEqpU&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Uo2Rxyoaxaw&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Uo2Rxyoaxaw&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
Personally, I think the scrub is a lot more 'show' than 'go' on an MTB, but that's just my opinion. I just think there are other ways to absorb jumps that are just as effective, probably less risky and easier to execute, but not quite as cool-looking.
Thanks for the videos though, guys. Great stuff. BTW, Chris - I would call this the exact opposite of a scrub:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/oJvHxAgOXV0&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/oJvHxAgOXV0&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
The immortal Doug Henry . . .
(Edit: finally fixed it)
Thanks for the videos though, guys. Great stuff. BTW, Chris - I would call this the exact opposite of a scrub:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/oJvHxAgOXV0&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/oJvHxAgOXV0&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
The immortal Doug Henry . . .
(Edit: finally fixed it)
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wow. thats wild. i'm speechless. Scrubbing=ride at same speed, stay lower, get back to the ground sooner...something like that. I dont know, Its been said already in better terms.
/discussion
You can clearly see that Bubba is accelerating wayyyy harder than RC coming up to this lip, yet they both get airborne and land at almost exactly the same time. Bubba buried it, caught up to RC carrying by more speed into the jump, scrubbed, and landed about dead even. Without the scrub Bubba would have either had to sky this jump f'in huge (dangerous) or hit it at the same speed as RC (no passy for you!!).
To add substance to what mark-DH said, i scanned 2 pages of Brian Lopes' book "Mastering Mountainbiking Skills".
you nailed it.
if someone really wants to reduce air time and stay low & fast, then the goal is to never leave the ground, totally absorb the rise/jump/lip.
they look pretty slick but that's all they are. it's just another piece of the current top DH racers' obsession with moto. I think if people want to be moto they should go race moto. totally different dynamic and there are only a small number of things that are the same on a MTB as on a moto, the MTB has no throttle to use as speed, line control, braking, boosting.
it's like the current photog/vid obsession with "roost." nobody's "roosting," really, unless they are laying down pedal power at the same time they're tossing dirt off the rear wheel. and the big down-side is that now all the gomers and dweebs are out there ripping trails apart to try to duplicate the "badass roost" they saw in a Clay Porter movie.
the day someone's leg strength and quickness is enough to make the MTB behave identically to a moto, that's the day I'll understand the pretense at moto style on a MTB.
wow did somebody get beat up by moto-x dudes as a kid? let's face facts moto-whips and bubba-scrubs look cool, just adds a bit of style to the sport.. arguing whether or not there's an "advantage" of doing either on certain situations is better suited for the mythbusters than a bunch of know-it-alls on a internet forum. Be clear, I'm not saying there's a advantage or disadvantage, just stupid to argue about it..
I dunno wtf your talking about roost.. drifting/cutties has just been a natural progression of the sport, I don't think it's mtb imitating moto.. like you said you can't get on the gas out of a turn and get a nice trail of roost behind you on a mtb. but you can go into a turn full tilt and lean the bike over into a drift and kick up some dirt.. wouldn't exactly call it roost.
saying that roosting is tearing apart trails is like saying "i dont want to put on socks because they will just get dirty"... i would safely bet that mountain bikers around my local stuff do more work on trails than any other user groups combined and with that in mind we should be allowed to drift whatever we want. if a kid wants to be a dumbass and blow out his tires doing lock wheeled skids into every corner then he will just have to up his tires budget.
i will agree with you on the statement of "if you want to ride a moto, then go ride a moto" ... one thing i've had more than enough of is a bajillion horses' asses saying "braap" when they do something on their bike. put that crap away.
jump style and cornering methods aren't exactly stealing from moto though. did they steal the backflip from bmx... or gymnastics?
i will agree with you on the statement of "if you want to ride a moto, then go ride a moto" ... one thing i've had more than enough of is a bajillion horses' asses saying "braap" when they do something on their bike. put that crap away.
jump style and cornering methods aren't exactly stealing from moto though. did they steal the backflip from bmx... or gymnastics?
Ah. who cares. just watch Cody kill the last jump (@ 5:20) at wheels of speed then watch Matti HUCK the jump a bit later (the NWD2 video)...which looks better and faster? Someone should time the airtime(?) and give us some more physics-related internet forum uselessness
http://www.littermag.com/2009/2009-willingen-wheels-of-speed/
http://www.littermag.com/2009/2009-willingen-wheels-of-speed/
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Utter rubbish. Gravity works just as well when you're not on the ground, moron
What's important is the angle you hit the transition with. if you come thumping down from way up onto a flat transition you will lose a lot of the speed you gained in the air. If however your angle of approach matches the transition, then you're unquestionably faster in the air than being on the ground getting bumped around.
R
rb92078
Guest
Wow... Ok you don't scrub speed while in the ar. Im no physics major. What I said is buy scrubbing you scrub speed without touching your brakes so you can stay low to get the wheels back on the ground. If you dont scrub the lip you go really high and lose time, over jump, and/or can't get on the ground quick enought to set up for next secton.
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my attempts...just alright
Edit: (images dont show up on my computer, can you see them???)
Links:
www.pinkbike.com/photo/3561434
www.pinkbike.com/photo/3561462
Edit: (images dont show up on my computer, can you see them???)
Links:
www.pinkbike.com/photo/3561434
www.pinkbike.com/photo/3561462
If people understand the dynamic physics of scrubbing jumps then you would think they would all be able to understand the basics of homophones and grammar.
Mkay, now how about scanning in the "Turndowns" part on page 118 that says, "To see an ultra-high-speed turn down in action, watch James "Bubba" Stewart on a motocross track".To add substance to what mark-DH said, i scanned 2 pages of Brian Lopes' book "Mastering Mountainbiking Skills".
Scrubbing itself is not faster, but it lets you take more speed into the lip and preserve it. You usually don't use your suspension as much on the landing either and get a bit more exit speed.
What do you people think about scrubbing like this. This is the way i have been doing it for years. I just slam the bike down has hard as i can the second it starts to go up. It changes the "air curve" dramatically and i can stay super low. It also seems easier than the moto way.
http://www.pinkbike.com/video/85765/
You can see the bike start to pop off the lip, but i shove it down with my arms and then legs. TRUST ME its way easier (i still cant moto style it)
http://www.pinkbike.com/video/85765/
You can see the bike start to pop off the lip, but i shove it down with my arms and then legs. TRUST ME its way easier (i still cant moto style it)
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Thats no scrub.
I wasnt saying bubba couldnt, because he can. I posted that up to give a visual representation as to why scrubbing is faster ie. you keep more of your forward momentum than if you dont scrub.Mkay, now how about scanning in the "Turndowns" part on page 118 that says, "To see an ultra-high-speed turn down in action, watch James "Bubba" Stewart on a motocross track".
Scrubbing is just another way of sucking a lip up, end of story.
MXers scrub as their bodyweight/bikeweight ratio is completely different so they can't effectively suck a lip up like MTBers can.
Some of the whips in the vid that motomike posted are NUTS :O
MXers scrub as their bodyweight/bikeweight ratio is completely different so they can't effectively suck a lip up like MTBers can.
Some of the whips in the vid that motomike posted are NUTS :O