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Cane creek airshock showdown

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
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borcester rhymes
Does anybody know the weight difference between identical sizes of Cane Creek air shock? Ie the DB Air and the DBinline? I read 200g online, but that's the difference between a 6.5" shock and an 8.5" shock per the website. My google-fu can't dig anything up.
 

dan-o

Turbo Monkey
Jun 30, 2004
6,499
2,805
Does it ultimately matter? There isn't much overlap between the two shocks.
As I understand it, longer travel/extended descending =DBa; shorter travel/less gravity = DBi

If you're looking for something to be ridden at Highland, in addition to locally, get the DBa
I had one on my last trail bike and it was awesome everywhere.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
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Does it ultimately matter? There isn't much overlap between the two shocks.
As I understand it, longer travel/extended descending =DBa; shorter travel/less gravity = DBi

If you're looking for something to be ridden at Highland, in addition to locally, get the DBa
I had one on my last trail bike and it was awesome everywhere.
sandy andy needs internet consensus before making any bike related decisions
 

jstuhlman

bagpipe wanker
Dec 3, 2009
16,627
12,918
Cackalacka du Nord
what dano said is exactly what a CC tech told a buddy recently. that being said i've run a db-c very happily on my trailbike very happily for 3+ years :)
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,031
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borcester rhymes
Does it ultimately matter? There isn't much overlap between the two shocks.
As I understand it, longer travel/extended descending =DBa; shorter travel/less gravity = DBi

If you're looking for something to be ridden at Highland, in addition to locally, get the DBa
I had one on my last trail bike and it was awesome everywhere.
Kind of, a little. My bike is on the high side for recommended travel (155mm), but it's used as both a trail bike and will see time as a DH sled. Cost for a used air is similar to a new inline, slightly less, but I'd like to know what weight penalty there would be for the reservoir and oil compared to the cap on the inline.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
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borcester rhymes
Make sure to get the 29er specific model.

Btw, it clearly sounds like there aren't any weird Spesh hardware/fit issues with an aftermarket shock, which is good news indeed.
I don't know if you're being cheeky, but there is a specific 29" model that isn't compatible with the 26. I think the stroke on the shock is shorter.

The enderpo has a pretty decent choice of aftermarket shocks. I can get the monarch RT3 with whatever acronyms, either of the cane creek airshocks, and I could potentially get a fox float x specially converted to fit as well. I like the idea of actually being able to tune my shocks though, so the rt3 and floater are out.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
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so you're going to go with the lighter option just to save weight in spite of everyone telling you it's not the appropriate choice for your intended use?
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
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Nope, I'm probably going to go with the resi because it's less than a lb heavier for a more robust and reliable option that's been on the market longer that's quite a bit cheaper (again, used) than the inline. I keep hearing these phantom, unsubstantiated reports of inlines blowing up, but nobody has produced any factual evidence, that i've seen, yet. It gives some concern but it's hard to really put any faith behind it. Regardless, the Crap/Turd/Disappoint fox that comes with the bike is practically worthless in terms of resale value, so I can keep it and use it on extended XC rides, should I need to. Originally I wanted an ohlins or ccdb coil for the bike with the CTD for XC rides, but those never materialized.
 

Jeremy R

<b>x</b>
Nov 15, 2001
9,698
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Throwing weight and all that out the window, for trail riding, I actually prefer the feel of the inline to the feel of the DB air. I have ridden both extensively, and I guess it comes down to use and riding style, but the inline is very lively feeling and is just more fun to ride on regular trails. Not sure if this post will get the ENDUROtm stamp of approval, but I am just being honest.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
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May 23, 2002
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Throwing weight and all that out the window, for trail riding, I actually prefer the feel of the inline to the feel of the DB air. I have ridden both extensively, and I guess it comes down to use and riding style, but the inline is very lively feeling and is just more fun to ride on regular trails. Not sure if this post will get the ENDUROtm stamp of approval, but I am just being honest.
You know, I've heard that before. I think the NSMB or Vital review suggested the same thing- the inline had a smoother off the top feel, was more lively, and less of a pronounced bump over the negative spring "window".

Do you have any thoughts as to why that is? Was the shock on the same bike? can that liveliness be tuned back in?

They also said that it was fine for 4+ minute descents, which kind of makes me wonder why you would want a DB air on a non-DH bike.
 

Jeremy R

<b>x</b>
Nov 15, 2001
9,698
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behind you with a snap pop
You know, I've heard that before. I think the NSMB or Vital review suggested the same thing- the inline had a smoother off the top feel, was more lively, and less of a pronounced bump over the negative spring "window".

Do you have any thoughts as to why that is? Was the shock on the same bike? can that liveliness be tuned back in?

They also said that it was fine for 4+ minute descents, which kind of makes me wonder why you would want a DB air on a non-DH bike.
That is what conclusion I came to. I love the db air, I just do not need it on a non-dh bike. The main thing I like about the inline is how responsive and lively it is, and it has so many tuning options, you can really dial it in. To be honest, no, I did not have these shocks on the same bike. My inline is on a 27.5 Bandit, but I have rode my buddy's bandit with a db air, and it felt the same as the one on my last bike. The db air works great, I just could not tune it to the have same level as liveliness as the inline. Most all the trails I ride are tight and twisty, and the inline shines there. My favorite tuning feature on that shock is the progression rings. I am running two of them in my inline to make the bandit more progressive and that allowed me to back off the HSC a good bit, and it rides a ton better that way.
 

wiscodh

Monkey
Jun 21, 2007
833
121
303
They also said that it was fine for 4+ minute descents, which kind of makes me wonder why you would want a DB air on a non-DH bike.
Some of the ENDURRRRRROOOOO courses in the PNW run about 10+ min. We ride a lot of descents in the 15-20min range.

Horses for courses.
 

4130biker

PM me about Tantrum Cycles!
May 24, 2007
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I think specialized switched over from the piggyback to the inline recently on that bike. Maybe you can find someone who has ridden both. Or maybe even some insight from Landcruiser or Jason Chamberlin on why they switched?

Maybe it's a "latest and greatest" thing, or maybe it was almost 1/2lb lighter and no real disadvantage?

And what was up with that random blurb from Bike mentioning all of the inlines blowing up on their test bikes?
 

wydopen

Turbo Monkey
Jan 16, 2005
1,229
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805
Some of the ENDURRRRRROOOOO courses in the PNW run about 10+ min. We ride a lot of descents in the 15-20min range.

Horses for courses.
^This
Aside from a few trails most of the descents I do are 15min+ and thats on a "trail bike"...although I have to say I never really noticed much fading on my old fox non resi air shock..just felt like crap all the time...definitely don't get any fading with the CCDBA..
 

wood booger

Monkey
Jul 16, 2008
668
72
the land of cheap beer
I think specialized switched over from the piggyback to the inline recently on that bike. Maybe you can find someone who has ridden both. Or maybe even some insight from Landcruiser or Jason Chamberlin on why they switched?
The big reason is money, money, money! Inline is much cheaper and lighter which gives Speshy PM's double massive wood. But I am sure the Big S will sing you a different song...

Maybe it's a "latest and greatest" thing, or maybe it was almost 1/2lb lighter and no real disadvantage?
Everyone I have talked to (CC included) says inline will fade faster and the DB Air is better suited to DH riding given the choice between them. CC straight out told me to get a DB Air over Inline for an Enduro.

And what was up with that random blurb from Bike mentioning all of the inlines blowing up on their test bikes?
 

Sandro

Terrified of Cucumbers
Nov 12, 2006
3,224
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The old world
I'm also trying to decide between a Monarch Plus and DB Inline (DB Air won't fit). I'm a little worried about the Inline after somebody who distributes Cane Creek advised against it due to it leaking and the climb switch failing. The fact that Richard Cunningham called it out so explicitly in the Giant Reign review doesn't inspire confidence either.

Has anybody here ridden an Inline compared to a properly valved Monarch? The Monarch is fairly easy to work on and spare parts are easy to come by. Does anybody who rides an Inline actually fiddle much with the adjustments once a good tune has been found? The feature most people seem to love about the Inline once they have tuned the damping seems to be the adjustable air volume, which the Monarch also offers.


P.S. I should mention that the guy who told me to steer clear of the Inline went on to recommend I take a look at the Marzocchi 053 S3C2R in the next sentence and lost some credibility points. Interesting with plenty of adjustments though, but it won't come out until April and cannot be worked on at home.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
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I don't really have an opinion on one vs. the other, the only things I can add are that the monarch still appears to have QC issues, even if they're minor, and I don't feel that you can really get a handle on tuning without going too far in a direction then backing off. I've spent too much time on poorly tuned shocks that I can't get the rebound any faster or the compression any harder on. It's hard to say "That's too much" without being able to actually get to too much. The cane creek should be able to do just that...plus the whole actually having adjustments is pretty appealing.
 

mtg

Green with Envy
Sep 21, 2009
1,862
1,604
Denver, CO
I'm also trying to decide between a Monarch Plus and DB Inline (DB Air won't fit). I'm a little worried about the Inline after somebody who distributes Cane Creek advised against it due to it leaking and the climb switch failing. The fact that Richard Cunningham called it out so explicitly in the Giant Reign review doesn't inspire confidence either.

Has anybody here ridden an Inline compared to a properly valved Monarch? The Monarch is fairly easy to work on and spare parts are easy to come by. Does anybody who rides an Inline actually fiddle much with the adjustments once a good tune has been found? The feature most people seem to love about the Inline once they have tuned the damping seems to be the adjustable air volume, which the Monarch also offers...
I've ridden both, with quite a bit of time on the Inline, and probably 5-10 rides on a properly valved Monarch Plus RC3 Debonair. We've have a bunch of Inlines go out the door at GG and haven't heard of any "blowing up" as RC mentioned in that Reign review. The only issue I have seen is one get stuck down, after a lot of riding.
As far as Monarch PRC3D vs Inline, they both work well.
Comparing the two:
- The biggest differences I notice while riding are that the Debonair can makes the Monarch softer in the top stroke, and that the Inline allows finer tuning on the damping.
- If you're a set and forget type, the Monarch is a good option. If you're picky about your setup and/or a knob tweaker, the 4 way damping adjust and CS on the Inline is a plus.
- If you want to stiffen the damping for climbing, the Climb Switch on the Inline is preferable to just increasing LSC on the Monarch.
- I haven't felt any damping fade on either one, including some pretty long and nasty descents on the Inline. For reference, I'm at 76% of the available spring rate range (190psi/250 max) on the Inline and 73% on the Monarch PRC3D (255 psi/350 max). I also ride like a fairy, though. I would imagine the Monarch has a higher heat capacity with the reservoir, but I haven't felt it myself.
 

cwrender

Chimp
Sep 30, 2008
11
4
The regular CCDB air even has AVEF as the only shock on the market today.
Automatic Valve Eject Funktion
It is used to save the air inside the shock from getting compressed too much. It is working like a charm as I was able to activate the funktion on a 8.5" and a 7.57" shock. So if your leverage on the bike or weight or both is high I wouldnt use any CCDB air with the original smmall air can. both bikes were less than 3:1 on bottom out with a 180lbs kitted hack.
DB air cracked 2.jpg
 

Kanye West

220# bag of hacktastic
Aug 31, 2006
3,740
470
Been running the DBInline for a bit on my Enduro 29er. For the package that shock fits into, it's pretty impressive, but it still has the usual CC faults - HSC adjuster that doesn't resist bottoming AND allow reasonable square edge compliance, no rebound slowing at top-out like a conventional shock (which is especially un-nerving with an air shock going down steep terrain).

I have the max amount of spacers in mine to resist bottoming and trying to back out the HSC a little bit at a time. It still feels constipated/spikey going over rough stuff like it doesn't want to get out of its own way. Been a characteristic of CC shocks for years. Feels great in rolling terrain though.

For a non-piggyback shock though, it really does do well, and more importantly it doesn't fade like the stock Fox RP23 shock did that came on the Enduro 29 Comp.
 

jackalope

Mental acuity - 1%
Jan 9, 2004
7,596
5,894
in a single wide, cooking meth...
Given how seemingly bad the DB inline performs (other than fade resistance compared to a RP23, which isn't exactly saying a whole lot) on the rough stuff, have you considered running a coil shock on the Enduro wagon? Assuming of course there's no frame fit issues.
 

Kanye West

220# bag of hacktastic
Aug 31, 2006
3,740
470
Given how seemingly bad the DB inline performs (other than fade resistance compared to a RP23, which isn't exactly saying a whole lot) on the rough stuff, have you considered running a coil shock on the Enduro wagon? Assuming of course there's no frame fit issues.
Absolutely. Just as soon as I get around to machining a new link for it that will accept a standard eyelet coil shock.

Remember, proprietary linkages......because fuck you.
 

Kanye West

220# bag of hacktastic
Aug 31, 2006
3,740
470
For southern CA stuff that's usually faster and choppy and hardpack, I think the bigger wheels are golden. It's definitely a stable bike, but with that extra stability comes extra difficulty of getting it BACK on a line once it gets sketchy. I actually found it to be the biggest handful in loose terrain.

Much of my riding with this bike is climbing, which is where it shines. Does everything well enough though it could be improved on steep twisty descents where maneuverability is key, so as an overall package I think they got it right.

The biggest thing I noticed is the improved ergos from all the extra stack height up front. The fit on it when descending is very comfy compared to standard 26/650 bikes.
 

4130biker

PM me about Tantrum Cycles!
May 24, 2007
3,884
448
Absolutely. Just as soon as I get around to machining a new link for it that will accept a standard eyelet coil shock.

Remember, proprietary linkages......because fuck you.
Please post up when you've done this- would love to hear how the coil does on the enduro 29
 

hmcleay

i-track suspension
Apr 28, 2008
117
116
Adelaide, Australia
Does anybody know the weight difference between identical sizes of Cane Creek air shock? Ie the DB Air and the DBinline? I read 200g online, but that's the difference between a 6.5" shock and an 8.5" shock per the website. My google-fu can't dig anything up.
I recently switched from a DBAir (with XV air can) to a DBInline in size 200x57.
The weight difference between these was pretty much bang on 200g.

EDIT: double checked them on the scales today (the 200g figure was before I put the hardware on the Inline, so not really 'apples for apples'). Here's the real numbers:
DB Air CS, 200x57, XV can, incl hardware t&b = 554g
DB Inline, 200x57, incl hardware t&b = 372g
weight saving = 182g
 
Last edited:

wood booger

Monkey
Jul 16, 2008
668
72
the land of cheap beer
Absolutely. Just as soon as I get around to machining a new link for it that will accept a standard eyelet coil shock.

Remember, proprietary linkages......because fuck you.
This is what you want. I think it will be available soon.



Guaranteed to come in stoopid proprietary Endurpoo version as well.

I tried one recently and it was retarded good. Didn't even have the Kashima.....;)