1st ride yesterday. Initial thoughts are quite positive, more "lively" than the previous coil, settled on 180 psi in the can. It will definitely need at least one air-can spacer. It ramps up reasonably well without one at the moment though, no harshness at all. All other settings are middle of the road so far, will make changes gradually as I can see the potential to royally **** the settings on such an adjustable shock.
Cane Creek Double Barrel Air
- Thread starter Trekrules
- Start date
DB Air CS (climbing switch) "Modifies low speed compression and low speed low speed rebound with the flip of the switch."
(pics from Sicklines)
my DB Air is still performing excellent after a year + of abuse. i have noticed it sounds like its making a squishing noise every so often so it should go back for its service. i was waiting for QBP to get the XV can back in stock so i can send it back to them for a overhaul
(pics from Sicklines)
my DB Air is still performing excellent after a year + of abuse. i have noticed it sounds like its making a squishing noise every so often so it should go back for its service. i was waiting for QBP to get the XV can back in stock so i can send it back to them for a overhaul
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needs bar mounted remote activation
one year at a time. we should be glad with a tool free "adjustment"
Yeah, and they should make it so it only has three settings, all of which feel like sh!t.
or you could buy a fox and have $200 in beer money
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This pisses me off. The one air shock that isn't geared towards idiots gets an idiot switch. Unless the change equals two clicks or less, it will be crap.
unfortunately for most of us the idiots are the ones with money and can control what features we get.
Its not just adding a couple clicks when you engage the switch, it turns on a second damping circuit that you can optimize for climbing.
I've actually ridden a DB Air CS, and it really works well. Try to find one, ride it, and then see what you think.
as far as i can tell this product is an addition to the CCDBa, not a replacement for it. aka kwitcherbchin
Wait what? Some people want a semi lockout feature. Why is it bad? You don't have to use it like that.
what bike did you ride it on? i'm considering a new trail bike for next year (if i can scrounge up the pesos). the DBa was already on the top of my list. this new version is definitely more appealing to me for an all around trail bike if it truly works as described.
how much extra adjustment is there for the switch on damping circuit?
in addition to the fact that the non-switch version of the shock is still available.
Ever use Suspension Experts in Asheville? They handle warranty/service on the DB. And if they need parts, they can drive down the road to get 'em.
ive personally never used them before but since we have a account already setup with QBP and get stuff from them weekly, ive just found it easier to send it to them. and im assuming the pricing will be cheaper through them since we are a dealer of theirs.
I like to refer to these people as "the reason why I can't have nice things." This whole platform/lockout thing has been responsible for more lousy suspension than any other suspension concept. CTD is complete garbage compared to a CCDBA. A floodgate on a 7" freeride fork? I had to purchase my last fork used because the geniuses at Fox decided a 160mm should only come with a lockout instead of proper dampening adjustments.
CCDB is unique in that it has enough adjustment that you can properly dial it in. I will spend weeks doing so but I don't want another damn switch to flip as I ride.
a proper damper SET for pedaling such has you are referring too would behave like CRAP going downhill hence why Fox came up with a pro-pedal lever/switch ( not a lockout ) that adds LSC which firms up the suspension therefore enhancing the bike's abilities to pedal.
CTD has very little to do with that pro pedal lockout has you call it.It offers pre-set factory setups for people who dont like to play with or dont have a good understanding of how suspension works.It has been greatly improve for 2014 BTW and quite frankly it might still be crap on forks but I find its actually a decent upgrade to the RP23 shock unit giving the rider MORE fine tuning options Prior to CTD, we didnt much in terms of dialing in the rear shock other than the air pressure.Now with CTD , you have the ability to run more or less LSC when the shock is wide open in the descent position.
Ill give you that CTD on forks sucks but but like I said, CTD is not a pedaling assist, nor a lockout has you call it and works quite well in my opinion compare to previous Fox RP23.This new switch feature on the DB air is what Ive been waiting for to make the switch on my trail bike and I applaud CaneCreek for doing this.
I'm pretty excited about this new CCDBACS. I love my DBAir on my DH bike so if this new one performs like that plus this nifty little switch works then it will be a real winner in my book.
Lacking many epic climbs locally, I don't have much need for the CS but I applaud CCs approach vs. the competitions.
I also don't want any more levers to activate or **** on my bars.
With the DBAxv my nomadc finally pedals like the marketingeers promised it would.
The RP23 is a total turd in comparison and now I'm thinking of dumping the RC4 on the v10c for a DB/DBA as well.
I also don't want any more levers to activate or **** on my bars.
With the DBAxv my nomadc finally pedals like the marketingeers promised it would.
The RP23 is a total turd in comparison and now I'm thinking of dumping the RC4 on the v10c for a DB/DBA as well.
It depends on what you mean by set for pedaling. I would describe my bike as plush but controlled. It pedals fine. If people want something that pedals better they should go with something with moar anti-squats or a hardtail. I don't see the point of hauling around the weight of suspension if it is not going to be plush. It doesn't really matter what method of stiffening the suspension is used. If it causes the shock to lose small bump sensitivity than it will be bad. This may be the first product where the assist truly doesn't affect the open mode but no one has delivered on that promise yet.
The 2014 CTD stuff is not good. It may be better than RP23 but that is not saying much. RP23 has done more for aftermarket shock sales than any product ever produced. I will get a chuckle when the 2015 Fox stuff comes out and all the MTB journos admit how bad the current crop is.
You're a year ahead of yourself buddy. 2014 sees a huge improvement to CTD: http://www.vitalmtb.com/features/First-Ride-2014-FOX-Talas-CTD-Fork-and-Float-X-Shock-The-Ultimate-Enduro-Launch,511
And to keep this relevant, Vital's first ride on the DBair CS: http://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/First-Look-2014-Cane-Creek-DBair-Climb-Switch-Shock,5987/Slideshow,0/bturman,109
The short answer is yes, it works as described, in my experience. I'm designing an aggressive trail bike right now that will use the DB Air CS, and pretty excited about it.
When I rode it, I didn't try the entire damping range, but I recall the adjustments on the climbing circuit to be similar in style to the regular DB.
Ah, yes, the one I have ridden was the über adjustable version. With MOAR KNOBS.
So, I guess the production version has the same adjustments as the regular DB Air, plus the climb switch?
So, I guess the production version has the same adjustments as the regular DB Air, plus the climb switch?
i just got a CCDB Air CS for the Bronson...
i have been a tad underwhelmed with the performance of the CCDB air CS with XV can. there's no question, on the downhills, it feels bottomless, smooth and controlled. If I closed my eyes, it would be near impossible to tell if i am riding my V10c or the Bronson.
However, my bronson isn't a downhill bike. with the stock fox float ctd, it was far more lively. gave a nice pop off jump faces. there's a pump track section at my local trails, and i could actually accelerate with the bronson/fox. pedalling inputs were more instantaneous. and this was with the shock in "descend" most of the time.
with the CCDB Air, the bike feels muted. I don't have that terrain feel (positive feedback) with the CCDB Air.
I typically run alot of low speed compression for pedalling efficiency, keeping the suspension higher in the travel, less brake dive.
My current settings are:
195lbs (fully geared) at 135psi
LSC 18clicks from Zero (fully open, minimum compression) out of 25
HSC 1.5turns from zero (fully open) out of 4
LSR 7 clicks from zero (out of 25)
HSR 2 turns from zero (out of 4)
i'm still noticing a fair amount of shock activation from pedalling. There's 25 clicks of adjustment on the LSC and i'm actually considering adding a 2 or 3 more clicks. Is that crazy?
Are my expectations just unreasonable given that this is a 150mm travel bike? i felt like the bronson was more efficient and held speed well with the fox. just when the trail pointed downwards it was really lagging behind the bump eating performance of my front fork (Bos Deville)
With the CCDB Air, It almost the reverse. It's descending really well, feels planted. but when I am needing liveliness coming off jumps, pumping transitions, pedalling response, its sorely lacking.
I'd appreciate y'alls input.
i have been a tad underwhelmed with the performance of the CCDB air CS with XV can. there's no question, on the downhills, it feels bottomless, smooth and controlled. If I closed my eyes, it would be near impossible to tell if i am riding my V10c or the Bronson.
However, my bronson isn't a downhill bike. with the stock fox float ctd, it was far more lively. gave a nice pop off jump faces. there's a pump track section at my local trails, and i could actually accelerate with the bronson/fox. pedalling inputs were more instantaneous. and this was with the shock in "descend" most of the time.
with the CCDB Air, the bike feels muted. I don't have that terrain feel (positive feedback) with the CCDB Air.
I typically run alot of low speed compression for pedalling efficiency, keeping the suspension higher in the travel, less brake dive.
My current settings are:
195lbs (fully geared) at 135psi
LSC 18clicks from Zero (fully open, minimum compression) out of 25
HSC 1.5turns from zero (fully open) out of 4
LSR 7 clicks from zero (out of 25)
HSR 2 turns from zero (out of 4)
i'm still noticing a fair amount of shock activation from pedalling. There's 25 clicks of adjustment on the LSC and i'm actually considering adding a 2 or 3 more clicks. Is that crazy?
Are my expectations just unreasonable given that this is a 150mm travel bike? i felt like the bronson was more efficient and held speed well with the fox. just when the trail pointed downwards it was really lagging behind the bump eating performance of my front fork (Bos Deville)
With the CCDB Air, It almost the reverse. It's descending really well, feels planted. but when I am needing liveliness coming off jumps, pumping transitions, pedalling response, its sorely lacking.
I'd appreciate y'alls input.
chillendrdude:
I think you need to play with the air pressure more, small changes make a big difference.
Your adding more LSC to compensate for bob makes me think your pressure is off.
I stopped quite often on early rides to dial in the pressure while sticking with the CC base tune settings.
Once I felt the pressure was right I started messing with LSC/HSC/RB; settling a click or two off the base settings.
Trying to use the settings to compensate for the wrong spring rate was a **** show.
My nomad c with dbaxv has been amazing once I got things dialed in.
The downs are great but climbing/pedaling was the biggest improvement for me vs the RP23.
No notchy platform activation, getting hung up on square edged hits etc.
My non-cs shock just rolls over everything and pedals great with a 32 single ring.
I think you need to play with the air pressure more, small changes make a big difference.
Your adding more LSC to compensate for bob makes me think your pressure is off.
I stopped quite often on early rides to dial in the pressure while sticking with the CC base tune settings.
Once I felt the pressure was right I started messing with LSC/HSC/RB; settling a click or two off the base settings.
Trying to use the settings to compensate for the wrong spring rate was a **** show.
My nomad c with dbaxv has been amazing once I got things dialed in.
The downs are great but climbing/pedaling was the biggest improvement for me vs the RP23.
No notchy platform activation, getting hung up on square edged hits etc.
My non-cs shock just rolls over everything and pedals great with a 32 single ring.
+1
...up the Air Pressure w/ more end-stroke rebound -- get some grip while in the travel.
And if you want more pop off lips back off the HSR a smidge.
I added the large volume spacer.
Ok so, did about 2hrs of testing on my local trails. soft conditions. but it's good mix of terrain from flowy rollers, to high speed downhill roots and rockgardens.
Air spring at 140psi. yielding 15mm of sag with my usual trail riding gear + hydration.
HSC- 1.75
HSR- 1.75
LSC- 12
LSR- 10
Bike felt far more responsive. Even with LSC at 12. still some hint of pedaling sluggishness. but, maybe i'm being nitpicky. starting to get alittle harsh off the top, so i think this is as far I am gonna go. bike still doesn't have that pop off jump faces that I like (used to with the fox ctd) but may be a combination of soft conditions and early season cobwebs. I am considering decreasing HSR by 1/4 and dropping LSR 2 clicks. On the roughest downhill section of trail, i'm still have about 1cm of travel remaining as per the rubber travel indicator. I'm not feeling any noticeable spiking on the big hits, but I may also decrease HSC by 1/4 and trying that.
How does the above settings look to you suspension gurus?
I think the Bronson was tuned well with the Fox CTD with the emphasis on pedalling efficiency. Switching to the CCDB Air, that emphasis has changed somewhat towards bump compliance and downhill performance.
My local trail is an XC oriented. as the DH sections are fun but short, and nothing really taxing. I am shaving time off the roughest sections no doubt, but overall, my lap times have gone up by 10-15 mins since the switch. But again, this may just be early season flabbiness from couch surfing (and occasional snowboarding) all winter.
Ok so, did about 2hrs of testing on my local trails. soft conditions. but it's good mix of terrain from flowy rollers, to high speed downhill roots and rockgardens.
Air spring at 140psi. yielding 15mm of sag with my usual trail riding gear + hydration.
HSC- 1.75
HSR- 1.75
LSC- 12
LSR- 10
Bike felt far more responsive. Even with LSC at 12. still some hint of pedaling sluggishness. but, maybe i'm being nitpicky. starting to get alittle harsh off the top, so i think this is as far I am gonna go. bike still doesn't have that pop off jump faces that I like (used to with the fox ctd) but may be a combination of soft conditions and early season cobwebs. I am considering decreasing HSR by 1/4 and dropping LSR 2 clicks. On the roughest downhill section of trail, i'm still have about 1cm of travel remaining as per the rubber travel indicator. I'm not feeling any noticeable spiking on the big hits, but I may also decrease HSC by 1/4 and trying that.
How does the above settings look to you suspension gurus?
I think the Bronson was tuned well with the Fox CTD with the emphasis on pedalling efficiency. Switching to the CCDB Air, that emphasis has changed somewhat towards bump compliance and downhill performance.
My local trail is an XC oriented. as the DH sections are fun but short, and nothing really taxing. I am shaving time off the roughest sections no doubt, but overall, my lap times have gone up by 10-15 mins since the switch. But again, this may just be early season flabbiness from couch surfing (and occasional snowboarding) all winter.
per canecreek the XV is recommended...
http://www.canecreek.com/products/suspension/lounge/forum/santa-cruz-bronson-tune
http://www.canecreek.com/products/suspension/lounge/forum/santa-cruz-bronson-tune
Not trying to sound like an asshole but if you switch from an xc oriented suspension platform to a dh oriented suspension platform and then go ride on a xc oriented trail wouldnt it stand to reason that your lap times would be down?
I believe you need to adjust your HSR to get that poppiness that you are looking for btw. My understanding is that LSR controls the same motion as LSC just in the opposite direction.
I believe you need to adjust your HSR to get that poppiness that you are looking for btw. My understanding is that LSR controls the same motion as LSC just in the opposite direction.
laps times are riding the same bike, just different shocks. i don't have very much experience fining tuning shocks. nor am i very articulate at what i'm feeling exactly.
maybe the CCDB isn't a good shock for me. i've always just get the shock into a base setting and just ride and adapt. i wanted this to be a learning experience to play with the knobs more and maybe get that "dialed" ride.
in a perfect world, i'd like a shock to have excellent pedalling efficency/characteristics, but still have that bump compliance and bottomless feel. maybe perfect doesn't exist...
I'd be interested to hear from anyone who understands how the CCDB rebound circuit works, i.e how does the spring (which to my mind is the only force returning the wheel back to its steady state position) affect whether the low or high speed rebound circuit is used? Surely the spring is only capable of driving a low speed rebound input or is the LSR valve set to allow deeper compressions to accelerate shaft velocity onto the HSR stack during the return stroke?
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Read the comments, dated today, which states that's a mistake.
I looked at the fit finder which suggests the standard can.
March 24, 2014 9:34am by CaneCreekCyclingComponents
Actually through initial rider feedback we were given the impression that the Bronson did need it. We now have test results back from Santa Cruz and they prefer the standard can. Its seems the XV can makes the spring curve too linear for the Bronson. We now recommend the standard can only. Sorry for any confusion. With new bikes that we don't have spec on and haven't tested with, we are often in the dark about tuning. Sometimes through rider feedback, educated guesses, etc. we can figure out the best set up. In this case we got a lot of conflicting feedback, a lot of which is probably due to set up and riding style preferences.
I looked at the fit finder which suggests the standard can.
March 24, 2014 9:34am by CaneCreekCyclingComponents
Actually through initial rider feedback we were given the impression that the Bronson did need it. We now have test results back from Santa Cruz and they prefer the standard can. Its seems the XV can makes the spring curve too linear for the Bronson. We now recommend the standard can only. Sorry for any confusion. With new bikes that we don't have spec on and haven't tested with, we are often in the dark about tuning. Sometimes through rider feedback, educated guesses, etc. we can figure out the best set up. In this case we got a lot of conflicting feedback, a lot of which is probably due to set up and riding style preferences.