In between brock and yourself, about halfway in the page. Roosevelt Collins.Originally posted by RhinofromWA
I am sorry Silver....
I am terrible at juggling....which freaking question?
capital punishment: the ultimate price?
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I looked and thought that was it....Originally posted by Silver
In between brock and yourself, about halfway in the page. Roosevelt Collins.
I answered two or three spots before this....
I think...Anyone esle dizzy?
Thread is moving too fast:
Here's what I get from google:
Black man in Alabama. 1937. Convicted of rape (of a white woman.) Maintained the sex was consensual. All white jury deliberated for 4 minutes before deciding the verdict.
Here is the (I know you won't like the source, which is why I told you to google it) ACLU's synopsis of it:
Collins, Roosevelt. Alabama. Collins was convicted of rape, sentenced to death, and executed in 1937. Collins testified that the victim the "victim" had consented, which caused a near-riot in the courtroom. The all-white jury deliberated for only four minutes. Subsequent interviews with several jurors revealed that although they believed the act was consensual, they also thought Collins deserved to death simply for "messin around" with a white woman. Even the judge, off the record, admitted his belief that Collins was telling the truth. "An innocent man went to his death."
My point basically is, if you have a system that isn't 100% sure, or even close to it, it is irresponsible to be putting people to death. I don't believe that "collateral damage" is something to just shrug off that easily.
Here's what I get from google:
Black man in Alabama. 1937. Convicted of rape (of a white woman.) Maintained the sex was consensual. All white jury deliberated for 4 minutes before deciding the verdict.
Here is the (I know you won't like the source, which is why I told you to google it
) ACLU's synopsis of it:Collins, Roosevelt. Alabama. Collins was convicted of rape, sentenced to death, and executed in 1937. Collins testified that the victim the "victim" had consented, which caused a near-riot in the courtroom. The all-white jury deliberated for only four minutes. Subsequent interviews with several jurors revealed that although they believed the act was consensual, they also thought Collins deserved to death simply for "messin around" with a white woman. Even the judge, off the record, admitted his belief that Collins was telling the truth. "An innocent man went to his death."
My point basically is, if you have a system that isn't 100% sure, or even close to it, it is irresponsible to be putting people to death. I don't believe that "collateral damage" is something to just shrug off that easily.
The pro-database people hearld it as the most effective tool in crime fighting ever. Coupled with a vast CCTV monitoring system high crime areas could be not only watched but if a crime was committed the prosecution would have a video document they could match up to DNA samples from the scene which makes for tidy cases.
The anti-database people are concerned with abuse of the database by non-government instituions like the insurance industry. The concern is that people could be denied coverage becaus they carry a rouge gene that will kill them early some day or cause an expensive medical condition. The other concern is that there is no greater violation of privacy (in their opinion) than having the essence of who you are biologiacally on record with the state.
Interestingly enough I have been atempting to get the State of Washington to explain to me in writing what happens with the blood samples they take from newborn children. They say they are stored but not used. I suspect most of us probably have some sort of record of our biology stored somewhere.
To be honest the class reached no consensus on the matter, we all were comfortable with some level of DNA banking but never agreed about where the banking went too far.
Thanks Silver.Originally posted by Silver
Thread is moving too fast:
Here's what I get from google:
Black man in Alabama. 1937. Convicted of rape (of a white woman.) Maintained the sex was consensual. All white jury deliberated for 4 minutes before deciding the verdict.
Here is the (I know you won't like the source, which is why I told you to google it
Collins, Roosevelt. Alabama. Collins was convicted of rape, sentenced to death, and executed in 1937. Collins testified that the victim the "victim" had consented, which caused a near-riot in the courtroom. The all-white jury deliberated for only four minutes. Subsequent interviews with several jurors revealed that although they believed the act was consensual, they also thought Collins deserved to death simply for "messin around" with a white woman. Even the judge, off the record, admitted his belief that Collins was telling the truth. "An innocent man went to his death."
My point basically is, if you have a system that isn't 100% sure, or even close to it, it is irresponsible to be putting people to death. I don't believe that "collateral damage" is something to just shrug off that easily.
The system does seem to have failed. 1937..
Blackman/white woman... Him joking around about it in court pissing off the jury (not of his peers,especuially considering the time frame).....if he was innocent, he wasn't very smart.
he had a death wish....death granted.Murdered people receive 0.0% due process. The ones found guilty of such crimes are given a hell of a lot more than that.
We are both wrong to an extent. "Promoting Prostitution" is in fact on the list of "Most Serious Offences" that count as strikes.
Is that a serious crime? How about Violent? Worth killing over?
Like? :devil:
Cool thanks for the insight.
Insurance getting your DNA records....hmmmm
Never really thought of that. Are finger print records available? 
Something to think about.I still think arrested people should have their DNA sample taken with their finger prints. It can help prove them innocent (+) and also help convict (+) Though it is never 100% of any case.
I function just fine when an object of discussion is placed infront of me....like Stinkle calling me out.
If they were to walk by the court house I aint going to see them.....they would need to be my case before.
Is due process violoated when you leave a line out of maranda (sp?) rights? no.
"Pimps" are good people....
What are the consequences of a three-strikes and you're dead policy?
Answer that before reading a potentiality of that policy...
I see all the money saved by not having as many prisoners spent on an increased police force and benefits paid to a larger number of families. How many people do you believe will stop their criminal behavior because they're afraid of a third strike? How many will instead just fight to the death when the police come to arrest them for a third strike?
In order to prevent that, we'll have to outlaw guns because you know darn well that most people who've had two strikes will just arm themselves.
And if we didn't outlaw guns, we'd move into a police state.
Answer that before reading a potentiality of that policy...
I see all the money saved by not having as many prisoners spent on an increased police force and benefits paid to a larger number of families. How many people do you believe will stop their criminal behavior because they're afraid of a third strike? How many will instead just fight to the death when the police come to arrest them for a third strike?
In order to prevent that, we'll have to outlaw guns because you know darn well that most people who've had two strikes will just arm themselves.
And if we didn't outlaw guns, we'd move into a police state.
That's merely one instance though, I just picked that one because it caught my fancy.
You think stuff like that doesn't happen anymore? I saw a HBO real sports on a man named Marcus Dixon, convicted in Georgia. Same thing, it just happened 60 years after Roosevelt Collins was executed. Dixon got 10 years...progress, I guess, right?
You think stuff like that doesn't happen anymore? I saw a HBO real sports on a man named Marcus Dixon, convicted in Georgia. Same thing, it just happened 60 years after Roosevelt Collins was executed. Dixon got 10 years...progress, I guess, right?
Hmm, good question. I personally wouldn't consider that a "most serious offense" but then again, that's our legal system for you.
no, I don't think that would be worth killing over... so thusly, there are some laws that would have to be amended to better the severety of some offenses.
good catch... I learned something new today.
Originally posted by RhinofromWA
"Pimps" are good people....
Stop watching TV.
This is being eused against escort services. They actually do more to make the women safe than the police ever have by screening clients. Something the streetwalkers did not have the luxury of before Ridgeway got a hold of them.
Remember the news story I posted a while back?
Worth killng them over?
Damn, I never even thought of that. You just may be right on the money.
They go into custidy freely now? I missed the memo?
It shouldn't take three strikes for guys like Ridgeway.
You can link yourself in to a police state if you like. The Death penalty isn't the problem. It is the system...a system stacked heavily in favor of the guilty.
Outlaw guns...nice try. You trolling? Yeah police state is the ultimate end to the death penalty.....yada, yada, yada. Yeah the death penalty is the root of all evil....when actually it is the emilination of an evil from earth.
Easy there....I was making a funny. I wasn't picturing some decked out in purple velvet jacket and wide brim hat with a feather guy bitch slapping his girls....
I wouldn't call them decent people, or business men. I can honestly say I have not done my "time on da streets"....to know them personally. Doesn't mean they aren't doing something wrong. I am sure there are "nice drug dealers" out there....not hurting anyone...just making a living....
(OK the above was sarcastic) but to make them out like missionaries they are not.....
Are escourt services the exact same in your eyes as pimps of the past? Escorts services are more like mobile brothels.....Not legal and not neccessarily right accourding to law makers.
But yes Heidi F(sp?)leise was another Mother Teresa saving all them wayward girls....
Brock I remeber us not agreeing on this in the past too...I doubt much has changed.
Here is the list from the original text of the 1993 bill that voters passed
Senate Bill 6120 later took robbery and second degree assault off the list.
Stop pimping.....
j/k (doing a bad job of lightening the tone)
Sorry, I was joking on the TV thing
I remember too. I don't think much has changed either, other than the fact we are talking about EXECUTING them.
Well they aren't executed now.... they will sit in prison. IF there are convicted 3 times...right?
What would get them to stop "Promoting Prostitution"?
Choices:
Stop, or move to Nevada.
Yes they will serve life in prison. A little harsh I think but whatever, the laws are the laws. Right?Originally posted by RhinofromWA
Well they aren't executed now.... they will sit in prison. IF there are convicted 3 times...right?
What would get them to stop "Promoting Prostitution"?
Choices:
Stop, or move to Nevada.
Does'nt much matter if I agree with them or not.
I never tried to paint them as Mother Theresa. I just stated that they screen clients and do more to protect the working girls than the police do.
It's not going to go away. They don't call it the oldest profession for nothing.
Nevada's laws on prostitution are downright weird. Not quite as forgiving as you might think.
Oh well. The thread is now way off course and I need to go skateboarding, so I'll catch you on the next one......
Sorry to go completely off subject, but this comment makes me physically ill. Do you honestly believe he "joked around?" He was facing the death penalty. It was his DEFENCE, and a valid one at that.Originally posted by RhinofromWA
Blackman/white woman...
if he was innocent, he wasn't very smart.
Even if he was somehow "joking"... are you ready to say that someone deserves to die for being stupid? Jesus christ, man. That's straight ****ed up. The fact that you use a cute little winkie smiley face following that statement is beyond reprehensible.
True....Originally posted by brock
It's not going to go away. They don't call it the oldest profession for nothing.
Nevada's laws on prostitution are downright weird. Not quite as forgiving as you might think.
Oh well. The thread is now way off course and I need to go skateboarding, so I'll catch you on the next one......
I agree. The pamohlets I walk away with at 16yo outside Ceasers Palace kept me "busy" for awhile.
Have fun skating...never could do that. Hit my tail bone way tomanytimes on inconcievable pebbles (can't call them rocks.)
I was streat luging (sitting my ass on the skate board) before it was cool
Truethfully....I missread it. I thought he was qouted as saying he was "mess'n around" with the white woman. That wasn't the case.
Valid or not in 1937....you don't say that stuff. In Alabama no less. If he was being crass and joking to an all white jury back then was asking for the death penalty. Racial preasure an all. He had an all white jury and was "mess'n" with a white girl. Concentual or not, that is a bad charge to have against a blackman, in 1937...especially in south. Didn't say it was right.
You are taking that winkie waaaaaaaay to seriously. It in fact, says I wasn't being serious. i din't exactly give it a
I said the system failed.....I thought I was clear. They had themselves a court room lynching in 1937.
Rhino
Did any of that make a difference? Other than you missed I said the system failed.....the first sentence of that apperantly unhumorous link of smilies.
You snipped:
"Thanks Silver."
"The system does seem to have failed"
Leaving aside the Green River Killer example as it is an extreme and untypical case...
Reasonable doubt is what all convictions should be beyond. That's the point. The definition of reasonable doubt does however, both vary and leave room for less reasonable doubt and mistakes.
Your tax dollars support keeping convicted killers alive in prison, they also support capital punishment (in some states anyway). If you don't like the former and would like to withdraw those tax dollars than you must allow others to withdraw the tax dollars that support capital punishment.
I don't support the level of defence spending that we have in the UK, do you think I should be able to withold those taxes?
Finally, on different question that will probably promote more red herrings; if you consider that drug dealers should be executed (due I assume to the deaths from drugs) how about people who sell guns to someone who uses them to kill another?
what kind of happiness are you smoking over there??? Facts of a case the directly lead to the conviction of a suspect are not extreme nor untypical. I would say that off chance that a person is "wrongly" convicted is extreme and untypical.
Yes, and why don't we start killing all the people who work at McDonalds, Burger King, KFC, Arby's, Hardee's, and every other fast food resaurant for selling food to people that later kills them from heart disease.
Selling guns is not against the law, if done properly. People who illegaly sell guns are punished (and yes, this could be taken to a harsher degree if caught doing so).
Selling drugs is illegal.
That case is extreme and untypical in the nastiness factor and the admission. To use it to justify killing someone who maintains that they are innocent and has committed a less horrific crime is not indicative of your mind being at all open to a balanced point of view. I would agree that there is no value in keeping such a person as the Green River Killer alive. The problem I have with the death penalty even for confessed killers is that confessions can be forced.
I do not feel that 1 innocent person executed for 999 guilty ones is a worthwhile ratio. Would you care to state how you feel and at what level you would blanch at the idea?
You advocate killing drug dealers, hence the question. As you missed the reason behind it I'll go back a step; why do you advocate killing drug dealers?Originally posted by DHRacer
Yes, and why don't we start killing all the people who work at McDonalds, Burger King, KFC, Arby's, Hardee's, and every other fast food resaurant for selling food to people that later kills them from heart disease.
Selling guns is not against the law, if done properly. People who illegaly sell guns are punished (and yes, this could be taken to a harsher degree if caught doing so).
Selling drugs is illegal.
Please answer all the questions and try to stay on point.
I just want to get something straight here, DHRacer.
You would have supported executing someone who was found drunk 3 times between 1920 and 1933, right?
Against the law, and all that...
You would have supported executing someone who was found drunk 3 times between 1920 and 1933, right?
Against the law, and all that...
so, rev. je$$e weighs in today:
an interesting read for part of my "indoctrination": http://archive.aclu.org/executionwatch.html
so, my question for him & his ilk simply put is: if (or when) guilt is re-established using the most advanced forensic methods to date, will that satisfy? Moreover, should these methods be used to re-open the case of the dragging death of james byrd?
an interesting read for part of my "indoctrination": http://archive.aclu.org/executionwatch.html