[Trasselkalle]

I need some outside opinions: I may have an opportunity to buy a used Demo 8 S-Works from a WC rider.

Background: He hasn't competed on it as it's the wrong size for him but he has been riding it (2014 model, so one year old). It is, however, my size and I am getting a good price. I've been seriously considering the YT-Industries Tues Comp or Pro otherwise, meaning it's really a new vs used and trust question that I struggle with, rather than price. I don't know him personally, but I have no reason not to trust the pics I am getting and his general credibility, so that's not what I want to discuss here.

What I worry about is instead three things:

1. I'm only getting started in DH - is this just waaaay too much bike for me to learn on? I have tons of bike-riding experience and I'm not new to extreme sports. I just need a new one to pursue and DH really hit home after renting/borrowing this season (at home as well as when travelling to various places around the world).
2. Should I worry about it (and the parts) being beat up given the level of rider he is? I'm not sure I'd be comfortable buying a rental bike as I hate the whole second-guessing thing once things start breaking. I'm a decent mechanic from riding other types of bikes a long time, but DH is new to me so I don't really know the ins and outs of what to expect and look at in a used bike.
3. Are carbon DH frames more of a risk for noob-crash breaking? I said thanks but no thanks at first, wanting to go for an alu frame as that felt more 'safe', but the tests at Santa Cruz (particularly the last one) kind of made me re-consider that.

In terms of the first question, I should add that I have no interest in competing and I have read some comments about the bike being a racing thoroughbred to such a degree that it might not be the most suitable bike for everyday riding. Many of the comments on the standard spec of reviews don't really apply as he's spec'ed it differently, expect for the Öhlin shock and a Boxxer WC fork. It's on a similar level spec, but as the spec itself isn't what I'm worried about I will leave that part out of the questions here.

Finally, it may also be tremendously silly of me, but starting out on an S-Works would just feel 'ethically wrong' so to speak. The bike deserves a better rider, but hey... I'm not breaking the bank and I'm definitely not interested in it from a 'fanboy' perspective (hence my third worry, above). I want a bike that can take it in the long-run. Durability and forgiveness are important for me. I don't care about brand or fancy color/material.

 

[ianjenn]

If you learned to ride on a smaller bike then the basics are there. So getting a "high-end" DH bike wont matter. WOuld you rather have a ratted out bike that is 5 years old?

I would say if the price is right then go for it. I would not consider the Demo a race only bike. Its not really slack or long. It should work well for all gravity based riding....

 

[blindboxx2334]

are you a hack? If not, you should be fine with plastic.

Who cares about rider skill, if you can afford it (or get a deal on it), go for it!

 

[Trasselkalle]

Thanks guys. I am very comfortable on any type of bike (incl uni) so I am probably not the average newbie and definitely not a hack. I still make the beginner mistakes in terms of lines here and there, but I guess that's the only way to learn and I try to not go quite flat out (it's so fun to do so though, so a difficult struggle it is). That leaves a little room for mistakes.

 

[yd35]

As mentioned above, if the price is right, buy it. The bike is racy (some may call it difficult to handle) in the sense that it has slack, low, and long geometry, which may take some time to get used to. But you will get used to it. Also, the Demo is a pretty snappy and poppy bike in my experience that you can really have fun with in the choppy chunder as well as in the flowy, jumpy stuff. I've heard the Ohlins equipped bikes are less poppy and more point and shoot oriented, but I'm guessing you can still have fun on a jump line with it. In terms of durability, the Demo frame is a tank and the carbon frame is pretty darn tough. The only concern is that many of the frames would crack the shock shaft as their yoke mounting system put a lot of strain in that area. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that this mostly happened on the Double Barrel equipped frames? I'm hoping that this is sorted with the new batch of Ohlins shocks.

 

[blindboxx2334]

yeah, i forgot, if you have a CC coil shock, watch that ish closer than a pregnant panda.

 

[IH8Rice]

the last person id be buying a carbon or any DH bike for that matter from is a WC "pro." zero warranty compared to whatever warranty the YT comes with. thats an easy decision in my book.

 

[kidwoo]

Thanks guys. I am very comfortable on any type of bike (incl uni)

A uni is not a BIcycle, and hence not a bike. The equivalent term is Unic (pronounced 'eunuch', and shares roughly the same definition)


As far as your questions go:

1. Nope. As you get better, the bike is there, you don't need to buy a new one.
2. Just check it for cracks, mostly all the tube junctions and the front triangle shock mount.
3. Yes, aluminum bikes suffer rock impacts in high impact areas like the side of swingarms more resiliently than carbon. It's the little sharp pointy things that get ya. There's a reason a lot of carbon frames (like endures) came with aluminum swingarms. That said, the s-works carbon versions are going to be about as durable as any other better carbon frame out there. Wouldn't hurt to ask this guy if he'd be willing to help you out if it does fail.

 

[Trasselkalle]

Heh - true, kidwoo. A uni isn't a bicycle formally speaking.

Yes, IH8rice, warranty is very nice. That is among my main arguments for a new bike over a used one. Another is the possibility to get a fork with less maintenance demands. I'm no stranger to servicing bikes as I said earlier, but it's nice not to have to do the same thing over and over.

 

[IH8Rice]

Yes, IH8rice, warranty is very nice. That is among my main arguments for a new bike over a used one. Another is the possibility to get a fork with less maintenance demands. I'm no stranger to servicing bikes as I said earlier, but it's nice not to have to do the same thing over and over.

replacement swingarms and front triangles for a S-Works Demo is ludicrous as are most carbon frame parts. not saying the guy will sell you a bunk frame but having a warranty to rely on (like with the YT) is something you should really consider. and if you want to cut back on maintenance, a Boxxer isnt the choice.

 

[4130biker]

I agree with ih8rice about warranty- it can be pretty useful! Id be looking into the frequency of those developing cracks of any type. I'm hearing about a lot of non-catastrophic, but warranty worthy defects arising in some high end carbon bikes. Pretty much a non-issue with warranty, but without, you'd be hatin' it. Why not look at a high spec, brand-new aluminum demo? (Similiar price, components, and comes with warranty)

 

[Trasselkalle]

Thanks - I will definitely look into any reported cases of cracks, as well as the good point about front triangle and replacement swingarms being expensive (for obvious reasons, granted, but would be nice to know what I would be getting into). Warranty + good customer service + durable bike are all part of an equation that feels like a safe bet. I'll see what I can dig up though, and the earlier point by kidwoo if I could get the seller to maybe help me out if something did happen is good also. I want to make an informed choice either way I go.

 

[EVIL JN]

3+ years and 250+ park days plus all other riding on my cf V10 says you dont have to worry about carbon frames per say. They are though.


However in your case I would go with a Tues, the only real difference in spec is the Ohlins TTX otherwise everything is comparable and readily available to buy plus you get warranty. I know who you are buying from and I dont dubt the bike is in good working order but new is always new in my book.

The guy seems pretty alright and so are the people at the shop that sponsor him so you could ask if there is any problem with the frame/shock if he could handle the issue with the shop. The same shop took care of a warranty problem I had on my first 2011 gen demo before most of europe even had gotten theirs yet in the middle of january.


Personally I would still go with a Tues since then all the parts are new and havent gotten beaten up by someone who charges harder than most.

 

[Trasselkalle]

Thanks EVIL JN. I agree that there is absolutely no reason to worry about the seller, but I am leaning in the direction that you are saying for the exact reasons you bring up. I don't think my life would change with or without an Öhlin shock + I'm sure they will come for other bikes in the future also and I really wanted one.

The YT Pro Zocchi shock/fork are new and could suffer from early problems, but Zocchi hopefully isn't as maintenance heavy also.

Still, the bike is absolutely a great deal. I'm just maybe not the rider who would fully have what it takes to appreciate what it brings.

 

[slyfink]

I'll add to the thread that Dirt seems to prefer the Tues to the Demo in riding. That's gotta count for something.

 

[BigBoi]

 

[kidwoo]

3+ years and 250+ park days plus all other riding on my cf V10 says you dont have to worry about carbon frames per say. They are though.

SC carbon =\= specialized carbon

Their s-works stuff seems fine, but they've made some pretty crappy non s-works, 3k trail frames the last few years.

 

[slyfink]

SC carbon =\= specialized carbon

Their s-works stuff seems fine, but they've made some pretty crappy non s-works, 3k trail frames the last few years.

source/evidence?

 

[kickstand]

source/evidence?

my friends hardly ridden stumpjumper evo that was a speiderweb of stress fractures and cracks all around the bottom bracket.....2013 model. They did warranty it however.

 

[kidwoo]

source/evidence?

Source is me and the evidence is watching every single person I know who's bought a non s-works carbon trail bike destroy it in less than 6 months.

Dumb stuff too like golfball sized rocks putting holes in downtubes. One of the guys tried to get specialized to give him an aluminum frame as a warranty replacement and they wouldn't do it. I still don't understand that one.

 

[jstuhlman]

on the other hand i have a buddy who's put his first gen carbon nomad and v10c through hacktackular hell and they're still burly as fvck

 

[kidwoo]

SC carbon =\= specialized carbon

I forgot, has anyone pointed this out yet?


Either way neither that nor what I posted has a whole lot to do with an s-works demo. A little maybe, but not much.

 

[Trasselkalle]

It still adds relevant input to my three concerns with used carbon frames, kidwoo, so thanks. Sure, it's not directly related to the Demo S-Works but it's all valuable when considering options to it. I definitely have a better understanding for carbon in bikes in general, and what to worry and what not to worry about.

 

[Kurt_80]

Bit of a grave dig here, but what's the long term consensus on 2nd hand 26 carbon frames now?

There are two that have caught my eye, the Session 9.9 and the V10. It seems there are V10s still going strong, not sure about the Sessions.

Anyone have any stories, horrible or otherwise?

Or should I retrofit my forbidden 26 wheels on a carbon 27.5 frame and be done with it?

 

[chris_f]

Last year I bought a pristine 26" V10, the last one before the wheels got bigger, and it's a really good bike. Since it was basically new when I got it, I've not had any issues with it. The bike requires much less upkeep than I thought it would, which is good because I'm lazy.

VPP took some getting used to though, but that's neither here nor there.

 

[WestCoastHucker]

Last year I bought a pristine 26" V10, the last one before the wheels got bigger.

i did exactly the same. no complaints here...

 

[Kurt_80]

So both you guys got new v10s and there's been no issue since. Good to know. Is there anywhere that's selling them or similar in 26 new?

If not, which I suspect is the case.... Is it asking for trouble to buy a 4 year old carbon dh frame?

Edit: there's both a V10 and a Session on PB that look interesting and the price is ok. I just don't want purchase something that's gonna explode in short order. I'm already tempting fate running 26s.

 

[Harry BarnOwl]

I'm on a 2014 evil undead that has had several years of cased jumps, trips to the alps, trips to fort william, sideways landings and general unmitigated abuse.The only thing it had to show for it was a small delamination around the shock cradle, but I dremelled it down and put in some more material from a carbon fibre fishing rod repair kit. Repair cost less than a couple of bottles of whisky and still seems to be going strong.

The bike owes me absolutely nothing and it's still my favourite one to date. I definitely wouldn't be put off buying a 2nd hand carbon downhill frame, there's some incredible deals to be had (especially for heritage sized wheels!).

 

[canadmos]

I would think its just like buying a used aluminum bike; check it for damage and anything that looks fishy like cracked paint, deep cuts and maybe pay attention to the downtube if the bike has been shuttled on the back of a pick up truck.

 

[WestCoastHucker]

mine was a lucky deal that fell into my lap. i bought it from a friends wife. i know them well and knew it was barely ridden...

 

[Kurt_80]

Just to clarify my overall goal here:

Upgrade my current frame, a Lapierre DH722. Got it for cheap, but starting to find some shortcomings including heavy-ish frame weight, older style geo, press fit bb. I'm pretty happy with 26 wheels for the overall maneuverability, so I kinda see two options here.

1. (Preferred Option) Get a 650b frame with a relatively high BB, throw on 26 wheels and drop the fork as required. Join the ranks of @kidwoo @Gary and enjoy the benefits of both new school geo and old school wheels.

2. Find a 26 frame in good nick. Size up to get the reach and wheelbase, and throw in some offset bushings to drop the BB.

Seems for option 1 the Santa Cruz V10.6 would be a good choice. CC preferred, but depends on pricing. Any thoughts on the Intense M16C from this perspective? There's good deals to be had online, but not sure about longevity or quality control.

For option 2, an old school V10.5, likely in a size L (as compared to my traditional M size). If I go down this route, does anyone have any experience with offset bushings? Ideally, running offset bushings would drop the BB 10mm, so running a V10.5 in the 8.5 inch setting (360mm) minus 10mm due to offset bushings takes me to 350mm, which is not too bad.

Final question.... how would the ride compare between these two options? Hard question to answer obviously, but if anyone has any words of wisdom, please speak up.

Cheers!

 

[kidwoo]

I would just buy a used 26" dh bike.

Because like 1000 bucks. The things are worthless

I really like the last gen 26 v10. More than the one I own even. But it needs to come from a previous owner who rides like a pussy.

 

[Jm_]

I would just buy a used 26" dh bike.

Because like 1000 bucks. The things are worthless

I really like the last gen 26 v10. More than the one I own even. But it needs to come from a previous owner who rides like a pussy.

And put a 27.5 fork and tire up front=instant 2019 geometry.

 

[Mo(n)arch]

Not carbon but the current Nukeproof Pulse has a +2mm BB drop. So totally 26“ worthy.
Light, aluminium and currently on sale. They don‘t list it on the homepage anymore as there will come a new version.