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Carbon V10

Discussion in 'Downhill & Freeride' started by altix, May 6, 2010.

  1. frorider

    frorider Monkey

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    i agree with much of what you are saying. just wanted to add that in the video posted above, there is a cross-sectioned portion of the frame, and clearly much of the v10 front triangle has a moderate (at most) wall thickness.

    to me it's just e-speculation though regarding where they thickened it. we know they thickened it on the fwd part of the lower downtube. it appears they kept it thin on the rear part of the downtube, which makes sense -- pretty much zero chance of big impact there, unless you're playing horseshoes with your bike. :D How thick are the walls on the entire front triangle? we don't know.

    time will tell. as i've said, i'm not in the 'extremely for' or 'extremely against' camp. one of the byproducts of a long career in engineering.
     

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  2. rpet

    rpet Turbo Monkey

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    I hadn't heard about that myself, so posting the image here for reference.

    MTBR Thread: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=559234

     
  3. 4130biker

    4130biker PM me about Tantrum Cycles!

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    I think santacruz is on the right track for selling bikes in this day and age, and I can understand thier bitterness in dealing with a market like ours.

    I respect people that can hop on anything and just rail- like most pros. That's not to say that any bike is good, but if it's close (and many are)- c'mon!!!!!

    I think the bike looks amazing, and I'm hopeful that the aluminum version will continue and see some of the same upgrades. I've been eyeballing SC bikes for a while, and I'd like to pull the trigger on this new version.
     
  4. TKCastle

    TKCastle Monkey

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    They should use east coast rocks on that impact device to test the front triangle, they are much heavier. They are using RF Atlas cranks on that test bike! Don't they know that they strip easy and are pain to assemble properlly compared to the Saints :rolleyes:?
     
  5. IH8Rice

    IH8Rice I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!

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    :rofl::rofl:
     
  6. 4130biker

    4130biker PM me about Tantrum Cycles!

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    Maybe the stripping cranks are meant to fail before the cf..
     
  7. rosenamedpoop

    rosenamedpoop Turbo Monkey

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    Yeah I'm aware of the Frenchy-ness of his area, I just didn't want to be a complete jerk and assume that's why p-spec is so rude, snarly, and questionably literate. :sarcastic:



    .
     
  8. General Lee

    General Lee Turbo Monkey

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    interesting fact that Boeing outsourced production of tailfins (an extremely high-stress component on any plane) and and parts of the wings to Asia to reduce costs. Likewise, I highly doubt SC is making these frames in-house and sorting bugs out on their own. Also, this frame is the result of over 2 years of design starting with other carbon bikes in the SC lineup. I wouldn't characterize the carbon v10 as anything close to a first effort.
     
  9. IH8Rice

    IH8Rice I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!

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    in the video they said they did lab testing at the manufacturer and they spent 2 weeks "over there"
     
  10. MrPlow

    MrPlow Monkey

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    I think SC should hire all the RM guru's here that have probably never even touched raw carbon cloth to design this bike (sorry to those here that have some idea). Clearly we all know more about carbon than they do and there is no way they would have thought about impact resistance and carbon's crappo shear strength right??
    Again, carbon can be made to resist impact. Through thick walls and other means. My bike has 2 outer cosmetic layers and an impact absorbing membrane with all the 'structural' layup inside. My hammertime video on FB didn't even penetrate to the membrane.
    X9ine will also know from his Lahar how damn tough this stuff can be.
    Please, if you have doubts, buy some carbon and have a play. It is amazing ****.
     
  11. LMC

    LMC Monkey

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    Your video was similar to an 'experiment' i tried. A 3mm thick carbon tube i had laid up by resin transfer didnt come out as expected, there was way too much resin and some delamination right from the outset. So i hit it with a claw hammer to see if i could break it, i had to stop when my hand got too sore, yet there wasnt even the slightest dent on the tube. GT did a similar thing to the Fury as part of a basic test and they couldnt break it either.
     
  12. Huck Banzai

    Huck Banzai Turbo Monkey

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    Looks like some paint chipping and a ding; paints cracked around maybe, but not the structure - that would take an astounding hit.

    Mind you I have destroyed more than 1 aluminum frame in similar circumstances, and had A LOT worse failures as a result. I witnessed an M3 swingarm destroyed in a seemingly benign crash.

    Whats the follow up on this 'failure' - it doesnt look like a failure, but rather an unfortunate crash; nothing is indestructible and I propose that an alu version would have suffered greater, more significant and ride ending damage.

    My 4 year old Monkey Lite DH have been dropped, crashed, and ridden pretty hard and still a-ok. The 'replace it every...' is also a load, as well as the 'invisible damage' BS. this is not 1996, keep it real!

    Its great to see so many proponents when only a few years back (and discusssing the aforementioned bars) the consenus went the other way. I must be ahead of my time!
    :weee: :weee: :eek: :weee: :weee: :thumb:
     
    #132 -   May 7, 2010
    Last edited: May 7, 2010
  13. General Lee

    General Lee Turbo Monkey

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    rumor floating around last Fall was that a certain unsigned member of their race team wanted some new angles/suspension options too. Hence testing bikes w/out having a contract . . . . just a rumor though.

    I got a bit of a laugh hearing the video. Sure, blame the 'internet' for redesigning the angles and suspension . . . riiiiiight. :thumb:
     
  14. IH8Rice

    IH8Rice I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!

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    having carbon bars that have taking a hard beating for 4 years is kinda sketchy IMO.
     
  15. davetrump

    davetrump Turbo Monkey

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    LOVE the carbon frame, so awesome... the naysayers are simply uninformed

    that said... I don't care what a handle bar is made of, I still put new ones on my DH bike once a year (i know their still good and usually end up on a trail bike, or are given to a friend who needs parts). Simple piece of mind, and nothing more. They are cheap enough and it is without a doubt the last part on a bike I ever want to break.

    As far as the V10 goes... anything that breaks the Carbon frame will have easily destroyed the aluminum one too, so it's not like anyone would have the material to blame for their crash/mistake, etc.
     
  16. IH8Rice

    IH8Rice I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!

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    i replace mine every year now too. i broke a handlebar that was a few years old and it scared the sh!t outa me. like you said, they are cheap enough to replace every year and not have to worry about going off a drop and eating sh!t cause your bars broke.
     
  17. Huck Banzai

    Huck Banzai Turbo Monkey

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    This on an FR/AM bike, but plenty of beatings! :) I have a tendency to notice impending failure (have broken plent of things, or rather cracked or ALMOST broke, but noticed something and this retired) and have grown to trust it. These bars have some more life in them, but are on an Trail/AM bike as of 2010.

    AND, I'm #260

    :P
     
  18. LukeD

    LukeD Monkey

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    that I did not know.... in terms of SC outsourcing the carbon work.
     
  19. pelo

    pelo Monkey

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    The bike is sick.

    The "I prefer a bike in a perticular weight range for plowing rock gardens" perception is kind of funny.
     
  20. toodles

    toodles Turbo Monkey

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    I wish there was a way we could post up a pic of the frame every page. Damn it is hot.
     
  21. Percy

    Percy Monkey

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    There is.:thumb:

     
  22. norbar

    norbar Turbo Monkey

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    Easton monkey lite is CNT according to them. It's a bit different than regular carbon - more resistant to hits if I'm right and if someone would be able to make a frame from it I'm pretty sure it would shut up all the nay sayers very fast(not likely because of the costs). I've used mine for 2.5 years and they are very scratched and had many direct rock hits and tree stops. Still work though I've changed them because of the stupid easton angles. I'd love to see more stuff out of this material and I'd love a 760 cnt flatbar.
     
  23. LMC

    LMC Monkey

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    I find it funny how the uproar that follows every carbon fibre DH bike never seems to surround a carbon fibre helmet.

    I think id be more worried about protecting my head in a crash than my frame!
     
  24. monkeyfcuker

    monkeyfcuker Monkey

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    Something something East coast rocks something something. . . .
     
  25. HardtailHack

    HardtailHack used an iron once

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    My FSA K-Force carbon bars are now four years old and still going strong, they have outlasted a couple of frames but I am going to retire them as my other carbon bars cracked after 20hrs of use and it has scared e a bit.
     
  26. IH8Rice

    IH8Rice I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!

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    well you guys have a lot more faith in 4 year old carbon handlebars than i do.
     
  27. Steve M

    Steve M Turbo Monkey

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    Helmets are designed to be destroyed in order to save your head, not really a useful comparison to something that you NEVER want to fail structurally.
     
  28. W4S

    W4S Turbo Monkey

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    That bike is sick! i bet SC didn't make it full cf just because of that one pic of the blur. Next version in a couple months will be full carbon once everybody has forgotten about that pic. too bad, i bet they were planning on releasing a full cf version from the start. what's the saying in marketing, you have to appeal to the lowest common denominator? :thumb:
     
  29. IH8Rice

    IH8Rice I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!

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    did you watch the video? the explain why the rear triangle is aluminum
     
  30. General Lee

    General Lee Turbo Monkey

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    I bet if you listen to the interview on Vital you'll know why it's not full carbon . . . or you can just keep looking at pictures on the internet and make up whatever you want. how does the saying go, 'don't confuse me with facts?'
     
  31. W4S

    W4S Turbo Monkey

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    yes, they said they couldn't make it any stronger than aluminum but soon they will be able to make it a lot stronger, got it. One of my buddies rides a carbon Ransom with cf sram cranks. He took a pretty bad fall on a really rocky trail and the carbon cranks deflected so much that it bent his cf chainstay about a half inch. the cranks still work great, can't tell that anything happened to them and the chainstay has had zero issues in several months of hard riding. if the frame and cranks had been aluminum, mag, alloy, steel, he'd have walked down the trail and had to replace the parts. I just think that, if properly done, cf is a much better bike material than super thin aluminum, where i've had about 5 instances of major bike failures that have ended in injury, near death, wtf just happened, etc.
     
    #151 -   May 8, 2010
    Last edited: May 8, 2010
  32. General Lee

    General Lee Turbo Monkey

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    Cool story. I have a fiberglass boat that i drove into a dock once and nothing happened, so based on that I'm positive Santa Cruz will make the next swingarm out of fiberglass instead of carbon:thumb:


    and listen again, they didn't say they couldn't make it stronger. They said that they couldn't gain any significant weight savings by making it out of carbon. That being the case, it's way more cost effective/less labor intensive (cheaper/easier) to stick with aluminum.
     
    #152 -   May 8, 2010
    Last edited: May 8, 2010
  33. W4S

    W4S Turbo Monkey

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    at least you can podium on the world cup internet douche tour. :rofl:

    yes, i think if one bike company can make a good cf frame then there are probably a couple more that can figure it out. i'm pretty sure it wasn't dumb luck that the bike didn't fail.
     
    #153 -   May 8, 2010
    Last edited: May 8, 2010
  34. John P.

    John P. Turbo Monkey

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    Sweet looking bike.

    Anyone want to buy a Session 88? I'm going to sell my current ride ASAP, as I'm sure the new V10 will be available for purchase before my next race. (and if not, I'll just go on the internet and b*tch about it)

    Next up: start a sticky'ed thread for tuning the suspension and sourcing replacement parts.
     
  35. IH8Rice

    IH8Rice I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!

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    plus, they are using a existing rear end from the Driver 8
     
  36. detour

    detour Chimp

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    Is it just me or does anyone else see a scratch/crack in the paint on the shock link mount bolt on the frame, in the "Developing the Santa Cruz Carbon V10.4" video from vitalmtb at 4:09, before they blend in the text. Oh well, might be a scratch or fuzz...
    And no, I don't doubt carbon, I just think a lot companies go at it the wrong way. If those frames were to fail, those small diameter bolt holes with their small "clamping" surface to adsorb the load would be my best guess.
     
  37. primo661

    primo661 Monkey

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    Try carbon bars that have taken a beating for over 9 years! A mate of mine is still riding Greg Minnaars old Global Racing Orange 222 from 2001 with the original monkey light carbon bars still going strong. I'd say carbon has proved itself time and time again. I'd trust it over aluminium but thats just me.
     
  38. MrPlow

    MrPlow Monkey

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    Great to see some carbon love here finally. I have had a set of carbon fsa bars but still replaced em hey. Just make sure you use some carbon clamp (read clear spray paint ) so they aren't getting clamped too tight and theory is they should last forever. Personally I reckon SC got the quote back from the chinamen for the carbon rear end and decided screw that. Just a guess though but I would say that's a fairly full on mould. Anyone here riding a bcd or had anything to do with them? He doesn't post here anymore right??
     
  39. LukeD

    LukeD Monkey

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    DUUUDE, i just sold my sunday and paid for one in full... wtf, i heard it was suppose to be here by friday what's taking so long?








    *sarcasm*
     
  40. IH8Rice

    IH8Rice I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!

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    your friend has some cajones then