Carbon V10
- Thread starter altix
- Start date
Dump trick.
I always found these stickers so clever and hilarious...
Not.
Guess Gee's got some redneck in him...
Giant has been making carbon mountain frames since, what-'93? The Cadex line.
That would mean that Santa Cruz's factory has around 17 years of experience making carbon frames.
Is this even possible, we have all missed it somehow?! :O
http://freecaster.tv/mtb/1012149/santa-cruz-syndicates-prototype-v10-carbon
The black one is sooooooooo sexy
http://freecaster.tv/mtb/1012149/santa-cruz-syndicates-prototype-v10-carbon
The black one is sooooooooo sexy
still curious to know why the vivid Air wasnt run. The whole carbon deal is pretty much Me Too™, albeit they tried to shine it up with the line that the bike woulda been heavier moving to 10" travel at the back/longer stroke shock. Also interesting to note how the riders state the bike feels so much better, lighter etc etc. but is it the carbon or the geo? What was last year's race weight for say, Minnaar's sled? (i'm asking cos i dont know, and wanna see which one they referring to :weight or geo, and yes obviously it could be a combo of both)..
hahahaha, "Me Too"....have you ridden a carbon frame? I had a chance to ride both the carbon remedy 9.9 and enduro last fall, and could completely relate to what the syndicate riders were saying about the feel of the ride, it dampens trail vibrations to another level, it's really amazing the difference in the ride. but hey, keep hating!
u sure you weren't just so overawed by the whole carbon schmiel that you suffered a placebo effect? Either way, it doesn't answer the question about whether two frames with the exact same geo, but one made by the traditional alu, and one made in carbon, whether it really is different/better. Have ridden,but not compared to same bike, but in alu.
Granted, carbon may give options to remake the same bike with the same stiffness, but different geo. So that again suggests it's more the geo that offers the changes you feel, not the carbon, if you understand what I'm getting at.
oh btw u frothymouthed fanboi: it's not hatin. Just a simple question. Less name calling, more intelligence, even if the q appears to be 'dumb'. kthx
Granted, carbon may give options to remake the same bike with the same stiffness, but different geo. So that again suggests it's more the geo that offers the changes you feel, not the carbon, if you understand what I'm getting at.
oh btw u frothymouthed fanboi: it's not hatin. Just a simple question. Less name calling, more intelligence, even if the q appears to be 'dumb'. kthx
Have you ridden a carbon road bike? The way that those frames dampen vibration is impressive and so I can fully appreciate that a mountain bike frame would be able to give the same feel. I for one am keen to give something like the carbon Nomad or Ibis HD a try.
tis' true...carbon dampens road vibrations quite a bit. The effect on a DH bike would be interesting...less vibrations in the hands...could be an interesting damping effect to throw against all the others...
Let me answer that one for you. Yes. It is dramatically different. Way stiffer and significantly lighter. I am talking apples to apples, same bike, two materials. Carbon is the final frontier. Metal (of any sort) simply can't compare.
who was calling names? seriously, try the carbon version and then get back to us.
Blur LT, Blur LT carbon. Nomad, Nomad carbon. Same bikes except for the frame material - same geometry, suspension, hardware, etc. Exactly the comparison you're talking about, right? I have owned both blurs, and ridden both nomads. The carbon bikes are significantly stiffer all around (front end, bb area, swingarm) and offer the smooth ride/vibration damping others have mentioned.
The weight savings is a nice extra benefit, but honestly I would prefer the carbon version if they were the same weight - the ride is that much better.
Your pessimism about carbon is more of a "me too" approach than the people who support it based on experience. You really should go check 'em out and decide for yourself.
It is not, carbon nano tubes are
thanks jonboy, dogboy, pSlide. I can fully appreciate the vibration damping a slightly more flexible frame allows. Maybe my understanding of how carbon frames handle shock and vibration versus that of an alu frame, but if two frames made of two different materials, but with the exact same geo, if those two frames have the exact some level of stiffness, wont the response to vibration be the same?
but just remembered something in that V10 video, where the designer mentioned that one of the nice things of carbon fiber frames, is that you can add material where you want: so thicker, stiffer walls where required for strength or impact, and thinner elsewhere where strength requirements are less important than weight objectives.
That ties up nicely with what y'all said earlier about being carbon translating less vibration than alu frames.
but just remembered something in that V10 video, where the designer mentioned that one of the nice things of carbon fiber frames, is that you can add material where you want: so thicker, stiffer walls where required for strength or impact, and thinner elsewhere where strength requirements are less important than weight objectives.
That ties up nicely with what y'all said earlier about being carbon translating less vibration than alu frames.
The only thing that scares me about carbon is when I wreck and the bike hits something. The only time Ive broken carbon bars was when the bike tipped over and the bar experience an odd force that they were not designed for. Im sure carbon is stronger/stiffer for the forces they are designed for, but what about that odd force? When I say odd force, I mean wrecks, tipping over, etc.
What they are trying to say is that although carbon is a stiffer material than Aluminium, it absorbs vibrations alot better. This is due to its physical properties.
Think of a symbol on your drum set(yes, I know its not aluminium but its a metal and metals generally have similar properties, especially when it comes to transmitting vibrations). It vibrates really well to provduce the sound it does. Now, if you dont have carbon available, take a material such as plastic which can be likened to carbon for its vibration transmission charateristics. Hit the piece of plastic with the drumstick and you get a dull thud. Neither plastic nor carbon transmit vibrations very well. Now think of what I have said and what its effects are on a bike frame.
Carbon is stiffer which results in a more precise feel but at the same time it doesnt transmit those vibrations an aluminium frame does, so you get a smoother feeling ride.
Liken it to hanging onto a chain saw thats running vs one that is not. Which will tire you faster? The one thats running because it accelerates fatigue.
Feel free to correct me if any of my analogies are inaccurate?
Thread resurrection. Syndicate replica @ Eurobike on Pinkbike.
Put together a neat little audio piece with Josh Kissner of Santa Cruz talking about the carbon V10. Not sure if there is any new info in there (not about to sit in the media room at Eurobike and read all 12 pages when there is new **** out in the halls!), but who is going to get tired of looking at this thing anyways? The cutaway was awesome!
Put together a neat little audio piece with Josh Kissner of Santa Cruz talking about the carbon V10. Not sure if there is any new info in there (not about to sit in the media room at Eurobike and read all 12 pages when there is new **** out in the halls!), but who is going to get tired of looking at this thing anyways? The cutaway was awesome!
what are all those creases in the carbon?
creases probably resulted during the layup process and consequent curing.
i think the carbon fiber strips are overlayed a bladder like mold.
i think the carbon fiber strips are overlayed a bladder like mold.
i would think that would decrease strength. you dont see racecar suspension parts with creases in them
Yeah they'll be from the internal bladder and/or vac bag used in the moulding and curing. Vac bags need to have loads of creases so they can be pushed into the nooks and crannies when under pressure in the autoclave. The resin in the composite simpley sets around these creases leaving a 'creased' surface on the carbon. They are not in the laminate ply itself, just the surface resin so will not decrease strength. You do get the same kind of surface on some race car parts, just not on the visble surfaces, like the V10. The outside surface of the frame will have a nice smooth tooled finish.
cool, thanks for the info.
how do you guys get around this? by using your massive autoclaves to cure the parts?
I have a friend who actually develops and builds carbon fiber components for racecars... I'm seeing him this weekend and will ask him then.
Yes. Esp for things like hoods, roofs, etc.
thats why i asked Gridds.
It entirely depends on how the part is made. If made with a matched mould, for example, the part will have a smooth surface on both inside and outside. More complex parts might only need one tooled surface while the other can be what we call a 'bagged' surface, as seen on the inside of that V10. The V10 frame looks like it was made with an internal flexible bladder that would need to be deflated and removed carefully after curing, there's no way it could have a matched moulded tooled internal surface unless made in two halves and bonded together, which I doubt looking at the cut-away.
do any of the parts on the FW32 have these creases? i would think the body would be the most complex as far as shapes go right?
Actually the inside of the tub (body) will in some areas have a bagged surface. As far as complex shapes go I'd say the brake ducts are probably the most.
Did that Pinkbike audio work for you guys? Not me. Interesting that they say December availability. I've been told early spring by our SC rep, not that it really matters since that's all off season with no DHing closer than Vegas.
lolz, last month they told us December(ish)
lolz: just wait for "2 weeks, they're in paint"
That was spot on.
Also some of the creases you see in there are from individual pieces of carbon, that are cut and layered in the mold to tune the stiffness, and ride characteristics of the bike. Carbon bikes are not made from small quantity large cut pieces. Most bikes have smaller strategically placed pieces to tune certain areas of the bike (much like butting an aluminum tiube) i.e. Headtube, BB etc...
"carbon dampens vibrations"....
LOL, with 2.5" tires to deform, plus 10 INCHES of oil-damped suspension under you.... the damping difference between carbon and aluminum is negligible...
LOL, with 2.5" tires to deform, plus 10 INCHES of oil-damped suspension under you.... the damping difference between carbon and aluminum is negligible...
i disagree. ride an aluminum bike and then a carbon and you will notice a difference. i owned two FS bikes w/similar travel, one carbon and the other aluminum. there was a significant difference in feel when going over the small chatter.