[fluider]

Sorry for going OT.

Socket, how's that with publishing your thesis in Australia? Did you study on private or state Uni? Can you make your thesis document available for download for example on your project website (if you eventually had some)?

In Slovakia, if you study on state uni, then your thesis is in fact property of the state and you must provide it for public at least in Uni. Library, and in both paper and electronic version. Unfortunately, not all students with interesting thesis topics are willing to share their PDFs out of their lib.

 

[sikocycles]

Anyone have any time on one of these at Interbike?

 

[- seb]

To those arguing whether a carbon DH frame feels different to aluminium, I totally agree that it would. I went from an ally jump frame to a steel one and the difference is massive. More relevant to DH is when I used to use monkeylite carbon bars on my DH bike, and it was very different to using ally bars.

I'm sure a carbon DH bike feels incredibly solid, I'd love to try one.

 

[Tetreault]

For what its worth i have spent a few hours on a carbon nomad and comparing it to the alu version it is significantly different. Stiffness is greatly noticeable in the carbon version and that is mostly in the rear end. since the weight different between the alu and carbon frames so very small, that isnt a noticeable factor from what i have experienced, mainly just frame stiffness, and more so in the rear of the bike. Now, with the V10, our shop manager did get some time on 1 at interbike and he said it blew his mind, from my point of view i would think the geo updates would make more of a significant improvement then the fact that it has a carbon front triangle. how many bikes have you people rode and said after "jeez the front triangle isnt stiff enough", probably not many. so what im getting at is the Nomadc is probably a bigger upgrade over the alu version the the V10c will be over the alu since its still using an alu rear. The geo numbers are the real benefactor to this new frame, the carbon is just new and exciting. Our shop manager is also a SC fanboy that gets raging hard ons for all their stuff, he will be getting a v10c and ill be able to get some time on it once it arrives

 

[Raingauge]

Anybody ride one of these yet? I know they've been showing up here in the great white North, so I'm hoping someone (preferably a hack like me) somewhere has ridden one.

 

[OGRipper]

The geo numbers are the real benefactor to this new frame, the carbon is just new and exciting.

It's true that the new geometry is a big difference, but the frame also has a bunch of new features, like improved hardware, adjustable travel, etc. And despite those new features it still comes in lighter overall because of the weight you save with the carbon front end. I'll be rolling on one this year and will post more once I get a few rides on it.

 

[Huck Banzai]

Oh lawdy, I just cant stop fiending for mine.

Watchout green trails! We're comin for ya!

 

[Tetreault]

It's true that the new geometry is a big difference, but the frame also has a bunch of new features, like improved hardware, adjustable travel, etc.

exactly what i said wasnt it? the fact that it has a carbon front triangle means nothing. its the new geo and improvements that matter

 

[OGRipper]

exactly what i said wasnt it? the fact that it has a carbon front triangle means nothing. its the new geo and improvements that matter

What matters most to you is your business. I just disagree that the carbon frame means nothing and that it doesn't really matter. It is lighter and stiffer, and it has that solid-yet-less-punishing carbon feel that I love, and that Socket thinks is my imagination.

 

[FlipFantasia]

...and that Socket thinks is my imagination.

that may be the best part!

 

[Steve M]

What matters most to you is your business. I just disagree that the carbon frame means nothing and that it doesn't really matter. It is lighter and stiffer, and it has that solid-yet-less-punishing carbon feel that I love, and that Socket thinks is my imagination.

haha, as long as you enjoy it, that's what matters I reckon it'll be a sweet bike!

 

[buckoW]

Very interesting stuff fellas.

I think the problem with comparing an alu frame with it's carbon copy is the two frames never had the same design criteria. Oftentimes the alu model was designed to "look" like the carbon one at a lower price point, whereas, the carbon one was optimized for whatever traits the designer wanted. The junctions aren't comparable between tube to tube constructions and full molds. That is a huge difference in construction methods which might have a big affect on the feel of a bike.

 

[Banshee Rider]

Very interesting stuff fellas.

I think the problem with comparing an alu frame with it's carbon copy is the two frames never had the same design criteria. Oftentimes the alu model was designed to "look" like the carbon one at a lower price point, whereas, the carbon one was optimized for whatever traits the designer wanted. The junctions aren't comparable between tube to tube constructions and full molds. That is a huge difference in construction methods which might have a big affect on the feel of a bike.

Agreed. Enough has changed between the two V10's that comparing them on a material level doesn't make much sense.

However, as someone who has ridden identical carbon and aluminum bikes back-to-back with no changes to geometry, build quality or set up, or even weight, I can absolutely say there is a "stiff yet less-punishing" ride quality that is distinctly noticable on the carbon counterpart. I had no finanial ties to either, and spent extensive time on both (weeks+) in changing conditions. It was definitely noticable for me, and I'm not sure a better comparison method could have been replicated.

The one thing I doubt is whether the difference of carbon is noticable on a downhill bike, given the same methods I saw. The bikes I rode were 5" trail bikes, which experience a completely different level of rider feedback. When compared to a downhill bike that already uses an incredibly stiff aluminum frame, has proper suspension set up, and lastly, 2.5 soft compound tires, I question whether I would see the same distinct qualities I saw with the trail bikes I rode.

 

[Raingauge]

Anyone know if the V-10 comes with a Maxle or Maxle light?

I'm running hope pro II hubs now. Which one is the axle killer?

 

[Dogboy]

Anyone know if the V-10 comes with a Maxle or Maxle light?

I'm running hope pro II hubs now. Which one is the axle killer?

The new Maxle-Lite has a straight profile so it shouldn't be an issue. I saw a shop pic of the V10c and it had a straight axle.

 

[Huck Banzai]

The new Maxle-Lite has a straight profile so it shouldn't be an issue. I saw a shop pic of the V10c and it had a straight axle.

From what I heard they dumped the Maxle, using pinch axle (so not exactly same as Driver 8 rear)

EDIT - Quote from V10c FAQ @ SCB:


Q: I read that the V10c uses the same swingarm as the Driver 8- is that true?

A: The swingarm is very similar, but it is different. The V10c uses some slightly different structural elements for stiffness, and a pinch bolt for the rear wheel axle (unlike the Driver 8, which uses the Maxle).

 

[IH8Rice]

cant find a pic of the non-drive side

 

[Raingauge]

Awesome. Its on order and should be here mid-Feb.

 

[Lelandjt]

Awesome. Its on order and should be here mid-Feb.

I put my order in before Christmas and was told March delivery. Maybe things have moved up and I'll see mine sooner? Or maybe it's a size thing and my large will show up after your medium (guessing here).

 

[Whoops]

Saw one built up the other day... supposedly (according to owner, who I mostly trust to be accurate) weighed in at 32lbs. Sound realistic? Totally pimped out with top end gear.

 

[Lelandjt]

Realistic? Only if he really watched the grams on that build (and I mean full-on Ti bolt weight weenie style) and skimped with some lightweight tires. "Top end" alone won't get that. That's 5.3lbs less than my certainly top end and somewhat weight weenie aluminum V10. The frame's not magic. It's just a pound and a half (with Vivid Air) lighter than the alloy model.

 

[Whoops]

Well... he owns a bike shop and is quite a ww...

 

[IH8Rice]

Saw one built up the other day... supposedly (according to owner, who I mostly trust to be accurate) weighed in at 32lbs. Sound realistic? Totally pimped out with top end gear.

absolutely realistic. the stock bike weighs 35lbs.

w/ DHX Air

 

[Raingauge]

I put my order in before Christmas and was told March delivery. Maybe things have moved up and I'll see mine sooner? Or maybe it's a size thing and my large will show up after your medium (guessing here).

We've had 2 show up at the shop already...

 

[norbar]

absolutely realistic. the stock bike weighs 35lbs.

w/ DHX Air

Stock bike weights dont proove nothing(ie long history of stock bikes on crap rims or mondraker on 1ply kendas). Whats the spec on the 32lbs v10 I am currently on a 37lb ride on top spec and I know I could loose 1-2 pounds going seriously weight wennie. Is v10 carbon 3lbs lighter than the legend?

 

[IH8Rice]

heres the stock 35lb build...no pedals though

and the 32lb build

 

[norbar]

A Full spec would be nice but I wouldnt call that build legit with Rubber Queens. He probably used that 820s ones but even the 1050g are no DH tires really.

Not to mention I will never put a dhx air on a dh bike again. Vivid air - I can try.

 

[IH8Rice]

A Full spec would be nice but I wouldnt call that build legit with Rubber Queens. He probably used that 820s ones but even the 1050g are no DH tires really.

Not to mention I will never put a dhx air on a dh bike again. Vivid air - I can try.

i dont know the full build. you can see most of the parts in the pic though. who makes the Rubber Queens?? i never even heard of them before. 820gram tires is indeed stupid IMO.

the DHX Air is stupid too, though more weight can be saved by using the Vivid Air.

 

[norbar]

i dont know the full build. you can see most of the parts in the pic though. who makes the Rubber Queens?? i never even heard of them before. 820gram tires is indeed stupid IMO.

the DHX Air is stupid too, though more weight can be saved by using the Vivid Air.

Continental - they are quite known for their special sidewalls with the fuction of tear on first sight. Apparently Der Kaiser is better at 1200g but still needs a bit more pressure than maxxis (who would have thought?)


As most of the parts - on pic my bike seems closer to 39lb Small things can make a differance.

 

[S.K.C.]

Continental makes the Rubber Queen... The Athertons are sponsored by them and I saw Gee riding a set of Kaisers during practice at the Open 2 years ago. I spoke with him about them and he said he liked them but when I asked him how much psi he was running he said around 35. I know on average the WC guys run a stiffer suspension setup than the average rider due to the speed they carry so either the somewhat high psi he was running was reflective of his suspension setup or he was trying to avoid pinch flats due to thin sidewalls.

Continental's proprietary Black Chili compound seems to be extremely promising, but their version of a DH casing has been lacking. Not sure what they have lined up for 2011, but in the past their idea of DH sidewalls were the equivalent of a FR tire from most other manufacturers. In the construction of their "Apex" casings found on their DH tires, they seem to use a rubber insert much like the butyl insert found on Maxxis DH tires, but I'm not sure if this is new for 2011...

The build on the cV10 with DHX Air looks stupid lightweight: Stans ZTR Flow rims are around 420g a piece, looks like a Fizik saddle, smaller rear rotor?, and the aforementioned Conti Rubber Queens - possibly the 820g versions... and what looks like a Straitline chain guide - maybe a Straitline DM stem as well...

EDIT: Crap - norbar beat me to it...

 

[Lelandjt]

We've had 2 show up at the shop already...

But those were ordered before Thanksgiving, right?

 

[Raingauge]

But those were ordered before Thanksgiving, right?

I'm not sure. I know there are more due to arrive at Santa Cruz the begining of Feb.

 

[norbar]

Continental makes the Rubber Queen... The Athertons are sponsored by them and I saw Gee riding a set of Kaisers during practice at the Open 2 years ago. I spoke with him about them and he said he liked them but when I asked him how much psi he was running he said around 35. I know on average the WC guys run a stiffer suspension setup than the average rider due to the speed they carry so either the somewhat high psi he was running was reflective of his suspension setup or he was trying to avoid pinch flats due to thin sidewalls.

Continental's proprietary Black Chili compound seems to be extremely promising, but their version of a DH casing has been lacking. Not sure what they have lined up for 2011, but in the past their idea of DH sidewalls were the equivalent of a FR tire from most other manufacturers. In the construction of their "Apex" casings found on their DH tires, they seem to use a rubber insert much like the butyl insert found on Maxxis DH tires, but I'm not sure if this is new for 2011...

The build on the cV10 with DHX Air looks stupid lightweight: Stans ZTR Flow rims are around 420g a piece, looks like a Fizik saddle, smaller rear rotor?, and the aforementioned Conti Rubber Queens - possibly the 820g versions... and what looks like a Straitline chain guide - maybe a Straitline DM stem as well...

EDIT: Crap - norbar beat me to it...

I really wanted to try Kaisers but I tend to ride heavy and like riding USTs so that a big no go.
Though Im suprised why wont they make UST Kaisers. They and Schwable have a very wide range of UST tires for enduro and FR but somehow they dont want to do dh USTs.
Schwable Rep at bike expo in Munich told me they are not for it because UST tires fall of rims easier but that only means he didnt know what he was talking about. The lack of ust tires annoys me whne most dh wheels are UST ready (mavic, fulcrum, crank, easton?)

 

[Lelandjt]

I'm not sure. I know there are more due to arrive at Santa Cruz the begining of Feb.

SWEET! I'm gonna stop by my shop (one block away) and call SC to ask if I should have my money ready a month earlier than they initially told me. It would suck to have the frame show up and not have the cash ready*.

*I'm a waiter so I pick up shifts when I need money and ditch shifts to go skiing when i don't.

 

[OGRipper]

and the 32lb build

Wow, a bashguard made out of Drillium.

Are those pedals cut down 647's or it just a weird pic?

 

[Rockland]

Wow, a bashguard made out of Drillium.

Are those pedals cut down 647's or it just a weird pic?

Guessing XTR Trail

 

[Whoops]

Wow, a bashguard made out of Drillium.

Are those pedals cut down 647's or it just a weird pic?

....and that's the exact bike I'm talking about....

The owner is well fast, but suuuper smooth, and probably <70kg so I think those tyres will be just fine.

 

[norbar]

Wow, a bashguard made out of Drillium.

Are those pedals cut down 647's or it just a weird pic?

Thats a stock straitline silent guide bash. Its very durable.



As for smooth owner - the problem with light tires is not only durability but you have to use higher pressure if you dont want them to fold over in turns. Im quite sure the owner will meet a turn on this bike sooner or later

 

[Whoops]

Thats a stock straitline silent guide bash. Its very durable.



As for smooth owner - the problem with light tires is not only durability but you have to use higher pressure if you dont want them to fold over in turns. Im quite sure the owner will meet a turn on this bike sooner or later

Sure... but re; durability... like I said, he own's a bike shop, so no problem - and re; corners... IIRC he used to beat John Kirkaldie in the NZ domestic series, so I think he'll be just fine.

(or - he might change the tyres!)

 

[norbar]

Sure... but re; durability... like I said, he own's a bike shop, so no problem - and re; corners... IIRC he used to beat John Kirkaldie in the NZ domestic series, so I think he'll be just fine.

(or - he might change the tyres!)

For some tracks it may work but Im a light rider too (though Im fighting with that in the gym) and If at my speeds I can feel the roll Im surprised he doesnt.