[Heidi]

There is currently a debate in Oregon going on about what to do (if anything) about two recent cyclist deaths when they where hit by cars turning right in front of them. In the first incident the driver passed the cyclist on an uphill, then on the downhill side the driver slowed down, signaled, and turned right and the cyclist rammed into it...killing her. The second case, a garbage truck passed a cyclists, signaled a right turn, slowed way down and turned right. The cyclist braked hard leaving skid marks, but slammed into the side of the truck and was killed.

Portland Police Bureau said the police want the state to adopt the same kind of traffic law that California has, in which cars turning right have to move into the bike lane well before the intersection. He said police believe that would help prevent the right hooks that are among the most common of bike-car collisions in Portland.

Right now cars DO NOT move to the right and block the bike lane when they are turning right. This makes more sense to me.

Not sure there is really a solution to this type of accident. Making cars merge into the bike lane and block it up to turn right doesn't sound safe either. I don't want cars merging into my bike lane.

 

[CrabJoe StretchPants]

Put the bike lane on the left side................duh.........

 

[Serial Midget]

I think the laws are good enough... we just need our state AGs to step up and prosecute drivers who operate vehicles in a unsafe manner. You can bet a driver would be prosecuted if they made a right turn from a middle lane causing the death of a fellow motorist driving in the same direction.

What we need is education & awareness. I'm constantly surprised by the huge number of driving adults who don't know its legal for cyclists to even be on the road.

People I work with think its illegal for cyclist to ride on the road if there is a sidewalk available... :groan:

Anyhow - the solution is education - it needs to start at the DMV, all motorists need to know the rights and responsibilities everyone who uses the same roads they do.

 

[Heidi]

People I work with think its illegal for cyclist to ride on the road if there is a sidewalk available... :groan:

HA!

I agree though, people just need to be more aware and educated.

 

[OGRipper]

Putting the lane on the left will for intersections where left turns are not permitted, otherwise it'll be the same thing on the other side of the road.

This is a tough call and it's a real problem in SF too. People in cars don't recognize that the speed of a cyclist will change with changes in terrain, and since there are lots of slow cyclists out there I find they don't expect cyclists to move rapidly either. Defensive riding is the best way to stay safe but it sounds like it wouldn't have mattered in the first case. Based on what you've said, however, the second case sounds, unfortunately, like it was the rider's fault - I never try to squeeze by someone who has already passed me and is signalling a turn, regardless of whether I'm in the bike lane or have the right of way. No, instead I'll either wait or move over and go by on the left side of the vehicle.

As a cyclist I'm biased but I disagree that cars should merge into the bike lane, especially in heavy traffic. All that does is leave BOTH lanes blocked, because the cars move over too early and then get stopped by traffic.

I'm not sure about any solution other than preaching awareness. Given that many bikes lanes in busy cities are in areas with pedestrian traffic, and peds are getting hit by right turners as well, it might make sense to impose a law that says you have to stop before taking a right turn across a bike lane. That's a hard sell though, and might not help much, because drivers will still cut in front of people even if they stop. At the end of the day it's up to the rider to be really careful about passing a line of cars moving through an intersection with a right turn.

 

[Serial Midget]

I'm not sure about any solution other than preaching awareness. Given that many bikes lanes in busy cities are in areas with pedestrian traffic, and peds are getting hit by right turners as well, it might make sense to impose a law that says you have to stop before taking a right turn across a bike lane.

I think this is a sound idea, easy to understand and easy to enforce. It only took me one $300.00 to stop speeding through school zones.

 

[ire]

I think the laws are good enough... we just need our state AGs to step up and prosecute drivers who operate vehicles in a unsafe manner.

I've read the debate on OBRA and the articles, both unfortunate deaths.....I agree that education and enforcement are the real solution. Many people don't know/respect the rights of cyclists and view us as an annoyance. I want to get a shirt that says "One less car" in big letters for commuting...I could be in a car, but I'm riding instead and taking up a hell of a lot less room

 

[LordOpie]

While the driver's were 100% wrong, it's also important for cyclists to know this is a possibility and have multiple escape routes.

I'd say that I have a mild close-call once/week while commuting and a major near-hit once/month from right hooks. I'm always prepared to escape. Just sayin'.


Also, didn't Jacksonpt hit a car recently who right-hooked him?

 

[jacksonpt]

I can't see how requiring cars to move into the bike lane would accomplish anything. In fact, it could make things worse as more cars would spend more time in the bike lane. It's called a bike lane for a reason...

I think it comes down to the cyclists being more aware. I'm not sure the details surrounding the 2 deaths, and clearly it's unfortunate, but we as cyclists are the vulnerable ones out there, so it's up to us to be "overly alert" to what is going on around us - especially in regard to things that could hurt us.

And this is coming from someone who was hit buy a car turning right.

 

[JoeRay]

Put the bike lane on the left side................duh.........

Done! But in Oz it doesn't help too much.oster_oops:

 

[ire]

Yesterday at the Cross Crusade race they had a speech by the guy who runs the series about Brett (one of the guys recently killed in Oregon, he raced the singlespeed class) and it was really touching. They then had a silent lap around the course....there were so many people that the line encompassed almost the entire course. I hope he is up there riding his cross bike, looking down smiling

 

[DirtyMike]

Same thing happens to motorcycle riders, in facts its the most common crash there is, wether its someone turning left or right in front of them, while the vehicles that made the turns are most likely responsible and at fault, there is some blame that needs to be on the shoulders of the riders. The subconcious<SP>sees narrow, and looks at it as it is standing still or moving very slowly, while wide objects are seen in the SC as faster moving, was a study a while back on this subject, cant find the material right now, but as a rider I ride both ,Moto and bikes, and its the same thing, you cannot expect someone to see you or to come close to realizing how fast your moving, in there eyes they may think they have Plenty of time when in reality they have none. Riders really do need to be looking out for themselves in these situations. Actually thats a statement you should make across the board no matter what your doing, Your the only person resonsible for your safetey. Like i say, your on a bike, your invisible, never assume they see you, and if they can, they probably wil, never assume there going to wait to make a turn. I do wish there was a better answer or option that would make things better for everyone, but i just dont see it

 

[JRogers]

I can't see how requiring cars to move into the bike lane would accomplish anything. In fact, it could make things worse as more cars would spend more time in the bike lane. It's called a bike lane for a reason...

I think it comes down to the cyclists being more aware. I'm not sure the details surrounding the 2 deaths, and clearly it's unfortunate, but we as cyclists are the vulnerable ones out there, so it's up to us to be "overly alert" to what is going on around us - especially in regard to things that could hurt us.

And this is coming from someone who was hit buy a car turning right.

You can still be alert as anything and get nailed. If I am near a car coming to a possible right turn, I get near the brakes and make myself aware even if it looks completely like the car will go forward. If someone passes me, slams the brakes and turns, there's almost no way to avoid this. Moving into the bike lane isn't a perfect solution, but it's something. I doubt it would hold up bike traffic much. It would give cyclists a warning and make drivers more aware of bikes.

 

[Heidi]

Yesterday at the Cross Crusade race they had a speech by the guy who runs the series about Brett (one of the guys recently killed in Oregon, he raced the singlespeed class) and it was really touching. They then had a silent lap around the course....there were so many people that the line encompassed almost the entire course. I hope he is up there riding his cross bike, looking down smiling

That's awesome.

 

[OGRipper]

You can still be alert as anything and get nailed. If I am near a car coming to a possible right turn, I get near the brakes and make myself aware even if it looks completely like the car will go forward. If someone passes me, slams the brakes and turns, there's almost no way to avoid this. Moving into the bike lane isn't a perfect solution, but it's something. I doubt it would hold up bike traffic much. It would give cyclists a warning and make drivers more aware of bikes.

I agree that a turning vehicle can't always be anticipated. And the problem is compounded by the fact that many people don't use their turn signals. (Which is completely confounding to me. I signal automatically, as a matter of habit, regardless of where I am or if I think people are around. Are people actually making a conscious decision to signal or not? Weird. It's easier to just signal than to think about it.) As a matter of legal rights, right of way, etc., it's not necessary the cyclists' fault. As a matter of personal safety, however, I always assume the car will turn and ride accordingly.

I still say that giving car drivers the ability to use the bike lane for turning right is a bad idea in most congested areas. The lanes will quickly fill up with cars waiting to turn, leaving the cyclists to either wait or weave through the mix of cars in both lanes. The former runs contrary to the purpose of encouraging people to get on bikes, and the latter is sketchy and dangerous.