[MMike]

I say they replace the word with "fart donkey"

http://www.cnn.com/2004/EDUCATION/01/30/georgia.evolution/index.html


Friday, January 30, 2004 Posted: 3:46 PM EST (2046 GMT)

Former President Jimmy Carter said he was "embarrassed" by Georgia's proposal to ban the word "evolution" from the state's curriculum.



ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN) -- Former President Jimmy Carter said Friday he was embarrassed by the Georgia Department of Education proposal to eliminate the word "evolution" from the state's curriculum.

"As a Christian, a trained engineer and scientist, and a professor at Emory University, I am embarrassed by Superintendent Kathy Cox's attempt to censor and distort the education of Georgia's students," Carter said in a written statement.

Cox explained the reasoning at a news conference on Thursday and in a statement posted on the Department of Education Web site, saying that the concepts of evolution would remain in the curriculum.

"The unfortunate truth is that 'evolution' has become a controversial buzzword that could prevent some from reading the proposed biology curriculum," Cox said in her statement.

She added: "We don't want the public or our students to get stuck on a word when the curriculum actually includes the most widely accepted theories for biology. Ironically, people have become upset about the exclusion of the word again, without having read the document."

But Carter said dropping the word would leave Georgia's high school graduates "with a serious handicap as they enter college or private life where freedom of speech will be permitted."

Carter also predicted ridicule for the state, along with discredit on Georgia's university system.

"The existing and long-standing use of the word 'evolution' in our state's textbooks has not adversely affected Georgians' belief in the omnipotence of God as creator of the universe," Carter said. "There can be no incompatibility between Christian faith and proven facts concerning geology, biology, and astronomy.

"There is no need to teach that stars can fall out of the sky and land on a flat Earth in order to defend our religious faith."

 

[BkrBrit]

Is there anyone out there from Georgia who's actually embarrassed by this ?

 

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by BkrBrit
Is there anyone out there from Georgia who's actually embarrassed by this ?

Hmmm....

Im not sure people from Georgia have computers, or for that matter, have evolved with the rest of the world on anything for the past hundred or so years. The imbreeding is actually causing them to de-evolve back to single celled organisms:devil:

 

[N8 v2.0]

Originally posted by BurlySurly
Hmmm....

Im not sure people from Georgia have computers, or for that matter, have evolved with the rest of the world on anything for the past hundred or so years. The imbreeding is actually causing them to de-evolve back to single celled organisms:devil:

This could be true indeed.

 

[MMike]

Originally posted by BurlySurly
Hmmm....

Im not sure people from Georgia have computers, or for that matter, have evolved with the rest of the world on anything for the past hundred or so years. The imbreeding is actually causing them to de-evolve back to single celled organisms:devil:

DON'T SAY "EVOLVE"!!!!!!!!!!

 

[RhinofromWA]

I saw something about that on the news.

They are to replace it with "a change that happens over time" or something.

OK I am going to say this goes to far.

Hiding the word doesn't protect them as the above phrase says the same thing in more words. This is not educating the youth...this is....argh! So dumb.

Evolution
Evolution
Evolution
Evolution
Evolution
Evolution
Evolution
Evolution
Evolution
Evolution
Evolution
Evolution
Evolution
Evolution
Evolution


ahhhhhh I feel better now. :

 

[MMike]

On SNL last night, during weekend update, Jimmy Fallon said that Georgia has relaxed their stance on using the word "evolution" in schools. But as a compromise they must now refer to dinosaurs as "Jesus horses"....

I thought that was pretty funny.

 

[Damn True]

Originally posted by MMike
I say they replace the word with "fart donkey"

http://www.cnn.com/2004/EDUCATION/01/30/georgia.evolution/index.html


Friday, January 30, 2004 Posted: 3:46 PM EST (2046 GMT)But Carter said dropping the word would leave Georgia's high school graduates "with a serious handicap as they enter college or private life where freedom of speech will be permitted."

Carter also predicted ridicule for the state, along with discredit on Georgia's university system.

Ummm...........

 

[biggins]

Originally posted by BurlySurly
Hmmm....

Im not sure people from Georgia have computers, or for that matter, have evolved with the rest of the world on anything for the past hundred or so years. The imbreeding is actually causing them to de-evolve back to single celled organisms:devil:

you mean inbreeding? actually i like georgia its a fun place.

 

[Damn True]

Originally posted by biggins
you mean inbreeding? actually i like georgia its a fun place.

The Athens area is pretty nice, and I've had some good fun in Atlanta. The rest of the state...........a bit too Hatfield & McCoy for my taste.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by biggins
you mean inbreeding? actually i like georgia its a fun place.

No, i meant imbreed.

To generate within; to inbreed.

 

[CrAckErKorEan]

Originally posted by BurlySurly
Hmmm....

Im not sure people from Georgia have computers, or for that matter, have evolved with the rest of the world on anything for the past hundred or so years. The imbreeding is actually causing them to de-evolve back to single celled organisms

I lilve in georgia and work in the education area. We do have computers well some of us

This is one reason I am leaving Georgia when I am done with school. There are just one to many morons here.

Good thing I was born in Cali, so the inbreeding thing doenst affect me YAY

 

[zod]

Here's an argument for you, if evolution is taught in school......and let me remind the scientists in the room that evolution is just a THEORY........why can creationism not be taught as a THEORY in school as well??

 

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by zod
Here's an argument for you, if evolution is taught in school......and let me remind the scientists in the room that evolution is just a THEORY........why can creationism not be taught as a THEORY in school as well??

umm, perhaps cuz there's nothing scientific about creationism? Science is quite comfortable being proved wrong... eventually. That's the wonderful thing about it. Are you ok with creationism being proved wrong?

 

[zod]

Originally posted by LordOpie
Are you ok with creationism being proved wrong?

Of course.....

 

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by zod
Of course.....

so you're saying that it might be?

mwuhaha, set you up good! :devil:

 

[zod]

Originally posted by LordOpie
so you're saying that it might be?

mwuhaha, set you up good! :devil:

I'm saying let science prove away, they don't know how to, they have been trying to for a long long time........

 

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by zod
I'm saying let science prove away, they don't know how to, they have been trying to for a long long time........

ok, but seriously, that's why creationism isn't taught, it's not science. Evolution may be wrong, but it's science, it's secular.

 

[Serial Midget]

Well when I was in school we were taught that evolution was just a theory, except for the periodic table of elements - darn little was presented as irrefutable fact. Now Vacation Bible School... they presented everything as the Gospel Truth that was not to be questioned or I would burn in hell.

 

[fluff]

Originally posted by LordOpie
ok, but seriously, that's why creationism isn't taught, it's not science. Evolution may be wrong, but it's science, it's secular.

Dude, don't confuse creationism and religion.

It is possible to teach a 'scientific' version of creationism; science is simply a bunch of hypotheses and experiments after all. I know of no experiments that prove evolutionism (as opposed to natural selection) therefore it is no more or less scientific than creationism.

Religion is a different matter and perhaps should be taught in a separate class along with mythology.

 

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by fluff
Religion is a different matter and perhaps should be taught in a separate class along with mythology.

interesting idea except that the religions would freak!

 

[fluff]

Originally posted by LordOpie
interesting idea except that the religions would freak!

I was expecting to be flamed badly for that post. It hasn't happened though, it seems that although people will die for their faith they're reluctant to flame me about it...

Must troll harder.

 

[zod]

Originally posted by LordOpie
interesting idea except that the religions would freak!

Agreed, you couldn't teach world religions in a Mythology class.....that would be demeaning to the believers of those beliefs......
You'd have to have a separate class called World Religion....or call the class World Religion and Mythology

 

[zod]

Originally posted by fluff
I was expecting to be flamed badly for that post. It hasn't happened though, it seems that although people will die for their faith they're reluctant to flame me about it...

Must troll harder.

I'm not one to flame......I'd rather debate in a polite manner, that being said your post didn't get me fired up....

YOU MUST TROLL HARDER

 

[fluff]

Originally posted by zod
Agreed, you couldn't teach world religions in a Mythology class.....that would be demeaning to the believers of those beliefs......
You'd have to have a separate class called World Religion....or call the class World Religion and Mythology

The thing is what separates really religion from mythlogy is whether anyone believes it anymore; Zoroastrianism anyone?

It's also surprising how certain things recur within many different religions and mytholgies - for instance the flood occurs in so many places. It makes you think there must be some historical occurrence.

 

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by fluff
I was expecting to be flamed badly for that post.

Must troll harder.

If you want to be abused, my ex-wife lives probably an hour or two from you :devil:

Still, I would like the major religions, mythology and philosophy taught in high school... it's some good mind expanding stuff.

 

[fluff]

Originally posted by LordOpie
If you want to be abused, my ex-wife lives probably an hour or two from you :devil:

Really? Where does she live, and did you live over here as well?

Ex-wives, huh? Who'd have 'em?

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Originally posted by fluff
It's also surprising how certain things recur within many different religions and mytholgies - for instance the flood occurs in so many places. It makes you think there must be some historical occurrence.

There is a ton of inter mingling of historic fact in pretty much every religion.

Dont you ever watch the Discovery channel?

 

[Andyman_1970]

Originally posted by fluff
It is possible to teach a 'scientific' version of creationism; science is simply a bunch of hypotheses and experiments after all. I know of no experiments that prove evolutionism (as opposed to natural selection) therefore it is no more or less scientific than creationism.

Excellent statement Fuff! (and now the obligatory thumbs up)

Originally posted by fluff
Religion is a different matter and perhaps should be taught in a separate class along with mythology.

I think that would be cool a class on world religons. I think it would clear up alot of misconceptions religons have about one another.

 

[fluff]

Originally posted by Mtb_Rob_FL
Dont you ever watch the Discovery channel?

Nope. No time for TV.

I spent £400 on a new TV last year, got satellite, won a DVD player and I never turn the damn thing on...

Cancelling the satellite, and I'll park the rest in the corner and let it attract dust.

 

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by fluff
Really? Where does she live, and did you live over here as well?

Ex-wives, huh? Who'd have 'em?

Not sure where she's at.... Oxford? She moved there after the divorce. We visited the UK twice and she fell in love with it. You'd have her :devil: if you like skinny sexy chicks. Some guys don't *shrugs*

Where's Dorset?

 

[towelie]

zod: evoloution is a theory, creationism is just conjecture. I think you need to look up what "theory" means in the scientific sense. Most accepted 'facts' in science are "only" theories. Very few things have reached the status of "scientific law", which is the only step higher than "theory"

Take gravity for instance: It is only a theory. "The invisible hand of God holding everything down" is to gravity as "creationism" is to evolution- pure conjecture compared to a scientific theory.

Also, evolution has been observed (albeit in very small steps) in contemporary nature. Evolution is based on natural and sexual selection.

 

[fluff]

Originally posted by towelie
zod: evoloution is a theory, creationism is just conjecture. I think you need to look up what "theory" means in the scientific sense. Most accepted 'facts' in science are "only" theories. Very few things have reached the status of "scientific law", which is the only step higher than "theory"

Take gravity for instance: It is only a theory. "The invisible hand of God holding everything down" is to gravity as "creationism" is to evolution- pure conjecture compared to a scientific theory.

Also, evolution has been observed (albeit in very small steps) in contemporary nature. Evolution is based on natural and sexual selection.

I think you need to take your own advice.

Please explain clearly and logically the defining differences between theory and conjecture.

Evolution by natural and sexual selection does not negate creationism. Therefore the observations you are talking about are irrelevant.

 

[fluff]

Originally posted by LordOpie
Not sure where she's at.... Oxford? She moved there after the divorce. We visited the UK twice and she fell in love with it. You'd have her :devil: if you like skinny sexy chicks. Some guys don't *shrugs*

Where's Dorset?

Spooky, my best friend lives in Oxford...

Skinny sexy chicks are good, but each to their own I guess.

Dorset is at the bottom, in the middle. Looks like this near me:

 

[towelie]

Try this for short...

Also, evolution is a theory to explain accepted facts. Creationism is a concept conceived a priori desperately in search of facts. It is a presupposed answer in search of supporting evidence, rather than evidence leading to an answer.

 

[fluff]

Originally posted by towelie
Try this for short...

Also, evolution is a theory to explain accepted facts. Creationism is a concept conceived a priori desperately in search of facts. It is a presupposed answer in search of supporting evidence, rather than evidence leading to an answer.

From your link:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
It is a fact is that fossil skulls have been found that are intermediate in appearance between humans and modern apes. It is a fact that fossils have been found that are clearly intermediate in appearance between dinosaurs and birds.

Facts may be interpreted in different ways by different individuals, but that doesn't change the facts themselves.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Doesn't prove evolution any more than it proves the exictence of rice pudding. What evolved from the Dodo?

And don't confuse the Biblical creation story with the theory of creationism.

Here is a brief Creation theory that fits the known facts:

Eric, a very powerful non-material being decided to mix up a few elements in a vacuum he knew of and lo and behold accidentally created the universe. He chucked a few amino acids he had lying around into the the mix to see what would happen and life suddenly appeared. He observed some mutations, got bored and buggered off to build solid light elsewhere, leaving much confusion behind him.

You cannot prove Creation did not happen any more than I can prove it did. Doesn't mean it did but it is still a possible theory regardless of how much some people dislike.

 

[towelie]

The burden of proof is on whoever makes the claim. Evolution has a continuely growing body of evidence. Creation is not falsifiable, just as you can't disprove the existence of fire breathing dragons. It doesn't mean we should just assume there is a good chance of their existence.

 

[fluff]

It's still a theory though, that's my point.

It may not be a great one that has many adherents but it is a valid theory.

The thing with scientific principles is that they allow alternative theories to the one any of us might prefer.

Fire-breathing dragons eh, wouldn't that be something...

 

[towelie]

Yeah, but a theory must be based on facts. We have no facts supporting how the universe was created. We have some facts supporting what happened to the universe when it was a few instants old, but have no idea what happened before.

There are no FACTS supporting creationism.

Also, there are many things that are still "just theories" that you probably have no problems with. The theories of gravity and electricity, atomic theory, the theory of relativity, etc. All are "just theories".

It takes a LOT to become elevated to a scientifc law. Take the laws of thermodynamics, for instance. There is not one piece of evidence, anywhere, of these "theories" ever being violated, so they become laws.

 

[fluff]

Originally posted by towelie
Yeah, but a theory must be based on facts. We have no facts supporting how the universe was created. We have some facts supporting what happened to the universe when it was a few instants old, but have no idea what happened before.

There are no FACTS supporting creationism.

Also, there are many things that are still "just theories" that you probably have no problems with. The theories of gravity and electricity, atomic theory, the theory of relativity, etc. All are "just theories".

What facts support the theories you mention exactly? That the effects they predict happen?

That would hold true for creationism.

The point is I don't really give a flying fig about creationism or evolution, but you're not actually thinking scientific theory through correctly.

If you make statements like those above you better apply them vigorously to all the theories you mention to check they make sense.

I bet you love quantum theory...