[ridetoofast]

http://dailycaller.com/2011/06/06/carville-2012-could-be-very-rough-for-obama-says-civil-unrest-imminently-possible/

But Carville said the consequences aren’t limited to politics alone. He warned of heightened risk of civil unrest with the bleak economic picture.

“You know, look — this is a humanitarian — you know, you’re smart enough to see this,” Carville said. “People, you know, if it continues, we’re going to start to see civil unrest in this country. I hate to say that, but I think it’s imminently possible.”

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/06/06/carville-2012-could-be-very-rough-for-obama-says-civil-unrest-imminently-possible/#ixzz1OXR9UMKU

 

[daisycutter]

What a bunch of garbage. The comments were off ultra conservative wacko garbage

 

[ridetoofast]

you do realize who carville is/was right? i'd hardly call him ultra conservative...

 

[stoney]

Coming from Carville, this is something to be cognizant of. I've been saying this for years now and I think it's just starting to hit the general populace. We're in worse fiscal shape than Greece and the world is clearly aware of it. China just sold 75% of their exposure to US debt; Bill Gross (Pimco) just moved the Total Return fund completely out of treasuries.

The writing is on the wall. Bump? Check. Set? Check. Spike? ...

 

[stevew]

i don't know what is worse.....trying to listen to him talk or trying to read what he has said....

 

[stoney]

i don't know what is worse.....trying to listen to him talk or trying to read what he has said....

It's a draw.

 

[Pesqueeb]

Coming from Carville, this is something to be cognizant of. I've been saying this for years now and I think it's just starting to hit the general populace. We're in worse fiscal shape than Greece and the world is clearly aware of it. China just sold 75% of their exposure to US debt; Bill Gross (Pimco) just moved the Total Return fund completely out of treasuries.

The writing is on the wall. Bump? Check. Set? Check. Spike? ...

This.

Though I think its unfair to say that the unwashed masses are aware of this. Make or break for Obama is simple, unemployment number, I.E., "its the economy, stupid." I believe that the economic crash right before election time is what sealed the presidency for Obama, and if the economic situation is still in the sh*tter come 2012, its going to cost him the presidency. The only thing that bodes well for Obama, and the thing I think Carville is missing out on, is who the fvck are the Republitards going to run against him? As far as the field has shaped up so far, Obama has a real good chance of staying. The Republican field is a joke, so the Economy or some other unforeseen poop is going to have to hit the fan. That being said, its still early.

 

[Beef Supreme]

We're in worse fiscal shape than Greece.

It is the inevitable conclusion to thirty years of BS supply side economic policies and bad trade deals. I am curious as to how you think we got here.

 

[stoney]

It is the inevitable conclusion to thirty years of BS supply side economic policies and bad trade deals. I am curious as to how you think we got here.

1) Deficit spending - When you borrow money to maintain your lifestyle, the value of that debt is worth nothing. When you borrow to build and maintain infrastructure, that debt has the ability to increase tax revenues long term.

2) Pick a war, any war. Or you can pick Korea, Vietnam, Cold, Drug, Iraq, Iraq 2, Afghanistan. None of these wars provided any positive fiscal activity for the country. Sure they created more jobs for people in the aerospace industry, but that money came from debt.

3) Social Security Fund "loans" - Spending when you should save; borrow to make up for what you should have saved.

4) Farm and housing subsidies - Our grain production is the highest in the world. Do we need to pay farmers on top of what they sell their grains for? The idea of a market exists for a reason. Housing is the same. If you are too high of a risk for a bank to take on your loan for a home, why should the government?

Of course all of this occurred (for the most part) at the hands of the baby boomer generation, I blame them. The entire concept of deficit spending should have been nipped when it first arrived by those individuals. But there was too much for them to gain from to make the hard decision to give up that for the future.

 

[Westy]

4) Farm and housing subsidies - Our grain production is the highest in the world. Do we need to pay farmers on top of what they sell their grains for? The idea of a market exists for a reason. Housing is the same. If you are too high of a risk for a bank to take on your loan for a home, why should the government?

Housing subsidies were originally intended to help make homes affordable to more Americans. Somewhere along the way it turned into a means to inflate prices as people considered their homes as investments and not places to raise a family.

 

[Jim Mac]

1) Deficit spending - When you borrow money to maintain your lifestyle, the value of that debt is worth nothing. When you borrow to build and maintain infrastructure, that debt has the ability to increase tax revenues long term.

2) Pick a war, any war. Or you can pick Korea, Vietnam, Cold, Drug, Iraq, Iraq 2, Afghanistan. None of these wars provided any positive fiscal activity for the country. Sure they created more jobs for people in the aerospace industry, but that money came from debt.

3) Social Security Fund "loans" - Spending when you should save; borrow to make up for what you should have saved.

4) Farm and housing subsidies - Our grain production is the highest in the world. Do we need to pay farmers on top of what they sell their grains for? The idea of a market exists for a reason. Housing is the same. If you are too high of a risk for a bank to take on your loan for a home, why should the government?

Of course all of this occurred (for the most part) at the hands of the baby boomer generation, I blame them. The entire concept of deficit spending should have been nipped when it first arrived by those individuals. But there was too much for them to gain from to make the hard decision to give up that for the future.

You left out an obvious other point: globalization and it effects at helping to turn our economy from manufacturing. I admit, it did start earlier, say in the 70's and 80's after Deming helped to supercharge the Japanese economy, but globalization pushed it over the edge. Now all we can do is "watch for falling prices..."

 

[Beef Supreme]

1) Deficit spending - When you borrow money to maintain your lifestyle, the value of that debt is worth nothing. When you borrow to build and maintain infrastructure, that debt has the ability to increase tax revenues long term.

The Bush tax cuts are the largest contributor to the deficit. The deficit is not going to go down until we address the tax burden on the wealthy and corporations.

2) Pick a war, any war. Or you can pick Korea, Vietnam, Cold, Drug, Iraq, Iraq 2, Afghanistan. None of these wars provided any positive fiscal activity for the country. Sure they created more jobs for people in the aerospace industry, but that money came from debt.

Yes, we get very little economic benefit from this spending. Nipping these three in the bud would be a good start.

3) Social Security Fund "loans" - Spending when you should save; borrow to make up for what you should have saved.

And people made fun of Al Gore for his idea of putting a lock box on the SS funds. I can't help but think that our country would be in much better shape if it wasn't for that horrific supreme court decision 10 years ago.

4) Farm and housing subsidies - Our grain production is the highest in the world. Do we need to pay farmers on top of what they sell their grains for? The idea of a market exists for a reason. Housing is the same. If you are too high of a risk for a bank to take on your loan for a home, why should the government?

Fostering home ownership is still a good idea. Promoting irresponsible lending because you are unloading the losses is not. I blame Wall Street and the lack of regulation for that one.

There is no reason for farm subsidies but good luck finding a Midwest politician from either party that will take on that one. Get rid of the oil subsidies too.

Of course all of this occurred (for the most part) at the hands of the baby boomer generation, I blame them. The entire concept of deficit spending should have been nipped when it first arrived by those individuals. But there was too much for them to gain from to make the hard decision to give up that for the future.

I blame the Republicans. Their entire economic agenda has failed and yet they are still willing to double down on stupid. The Dems are not doing nearly enough to challenge the fallacies that have become accepted as conventional wisdom. Tax cuts don't pay for themselves. Prosperity does not trickle down. Dismantling our social safety nets will only make our problems worse. I can't imagine how bad things need to get before the collective wisdom changes.

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I really was curious as to your thoughts on this.

 

[dante]

Coming from Carville, this is something to be cognizant of. I've been saying this for years now and I think it's just starting to hit the general populace. We're in worse fiscal shape than Greece and the world is clearly aware of it. China just sold 75% of their exposure to US debt; Bill Gross (Pimco) just moved the Total Return fund completely out of treasuries.

The writing is on the wall. Bump? Check. Set? Check. Spike? ...

Uh...... I think you're math is a bit wrong.

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/tic/Documents/mfh.txt

China's been *increasing* their US debt purchases, at least through March 2011. Unless you're claiming that China dumped almost a trillion dollars worth of US debt on the market and we didn't notice?

 

[$tinkle]

There is no reason for farm subsidies but good luck finding a Midwest politician from either party that will take on that one.

you mean besides paul ryan (R - WI), who called for the end of oil subsidies last week? or pawlenty (R - MN), who *IN IOWA* called for phasing out ethanol subsidies

I blame the Republicans. Their entire economic agenda has failed

in your own words, what is "their entire economic agenda"?

Tax cuts don't pay for themselves.

so we should never have tax cuts? what would you propose is the right taxation to keep industry stateside and prices competitive & attractive to potential consumers? don't feel obligated to quote widely respected economists (especially austan goolsbee, who just resigned b/c his advice has proven abysmal to the current administration)

Prosperity does not trickle down.

does it trickle up? does it just "appear"? how does it happen?

Dismantling our social safety nets will only make our problems worse.

and who has called for "dismantling"? [btw, "reforrm" != "dismantling"]

I can't imagine how bad things need to get before the collective wisdom changes.

indeed.

 

[stoney]

Uh...... I think you're math is a bit wrong.

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/tic/Documents/mfh.txt

China's been *increasing* their US debt purchases, at least through March 2011. Unless you're claiming that China dumped almost a trillion dollars worth of US debt on the market and we didn't notice?

I stand corrected. They divested 97% of their Treasury Bill Holdings.
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/china-has-divested-97-percent-its-holdin

 

[dante]

I stand corrected. They divested 97% of their Treasury Bill Holdings.
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/china-has-divested-97-percent-its-holdin

Thank god that the "Conservative News Service" doesn't have any spin to it, or you might've misread the article thinking that China was divesting itself of US debt at an alarming rate....

But I'm sure an unbiased and ethical news service wouldn't want someone to make that mistake, right?

 

[rockofullr]

Thank god that the "Conservative News Service" doesn't have any spin to it, or you might've misread the article thinking that China was divesting itself of US debt at an alarming rate....

But I'm sure an unbiased and ethical news service wouldn't want someone to make that mistake, right?

Must spread rep.

That article was honestly worthless.

In August 2008, before the bank bailout and the stimulus law, overall Chinese holdings of U.S. debt stood at $573.7 billion. That number continued to escalate past May 2009-- when China started to reduce its holdings in short-term Treasury bills--and ultimately peaked at $1.1753 trillion last October.

As of March 2011, overall Chinese holdings of U.S. debt had decreased to 1.1449 trillion.

They decreased their holding of US debt from $1.1753 trillion to $1.1449 trillion. That's 2.6%, golly they must really be worried.

 

[dante]

Must spread rep.

That article was honestly worthless.



They decreased their holding of US debt from $1.1753 trillion to $1.1449 trillion. That's 2.6%, golly they must really be worried.

And year over year they increased their holdings of US debt by 28%.

And they shifted from short-term (non-risky, 0% interest) debt to long term (riskier, 1-4.5% interest) debt.

If anything it's showing that China is *more* confident of the US paying off it's debts than it was before....

 

[Westy]

And year over year they increased their holdings of US debt by 28%.

And they shifted from short-term (non-risky, 0% interest) debt to long term (riskier, 1-4.5% interest) debt.

If anything it's showing that China is *more* confident of the US paying off it's debts than it was before....

I'd say it is less about confidence in the US economy as it is getting a firmer grasp on our balls. Buying our debt is a hell of a lot cheaper than building an army and they can bring us to our knees in swift fashion and never fire a shot.l

 

[jimmydean]

...getting a firmer grasp on our balls. Buying our debt is a hell of a lot cheaper than building an army and they can bring us to our knees in swift fashion and never fire a shot.l

Must have learned it from my ex, Sneaky Chinese.

 

[dante]

I'd say it is less about confidence in the US economy as it is getting a firmer grasp on our balls. Buying our debt is a hell of a lot cheaper than building an army and they can bring us to our knees in swift fashion and never fire a shot.l

The funny thing is it's the same Mutually Assured Destruction as with the Soviet Union. If the Chinese *start* dumping US treasuries the rest of their treasuries become worthless, the dollar becomes worthless, and they lose their #1 trading partner so their economy would tank almost as fast as ours. They don't have anywhere near the consumer demand to pick up the slack, and chances are Europe would get dragged down as well. We'd experience high inflation (probably not hyper, but high enough) and MASSIVE cuts to government spending, and China would probably have a deflationary spiral down to.... who knows where.

 

[ohio]

Haha, anyone that thinks this is anything more than political gamesmanship to help Obama seem like an underdog-come-from-behind candidate is deluding themselves.

Carville is a Dem pollster. He's doing his very best to set up Obama's campaign for success.

 

[ridetoofast]

that seems like a hellava end run, statue of liberty, triple lindee trick play to me...

 

[rockofullr]

Haha, anyone that thinks this is anything more than political gamesmanship to help Obama seem like an underdog-come-from-behind candidate is deluding themselves.

Carville is a Dem pollster. He's doing his very best to set up Obama's campaign for success.

Yeah he's definitely on the DNC payroll

 

[$tinkle]

Yeah he's definitely on the DNC payroll

he's acting this way b/c mary's letting him do 'downtown stuff'

 

[Beef Supreme]

Anybody besides $tinkle still think supply side economics is working?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/08/how-bush-tax-cuts-economy_n_873245.html#s289287&title=Effect_On_AfterTax

 

[$tinkle]

turning around the economy does take time

like a couple years at least

 

[dante]

Bumpitty bump bump. PIMCO's Bill Gross admits he was wrong, says "sorry" for losing billions of his investors' money...

http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/30/markets/bondcenter/bonds_pimco_bill_gross/