[Sandwich]

I'm looking at a shock for an IH yakuza, which according to Linkage software, has a linearly progressive shock rate. Will a CCDB fill the void? I'd like to try one out, but I know they are "linear" shocks. I'm wondering if one will compliment the shock rate of the bike, or if it's wiser to grab something with a small amount of built in progression.

 

[dhbrigade]

Running the CCDB on a progressive Bike (V10 Carbon) and a complete linear bike (Orange 224) as well. Works great on both frames.

Just a question of setup.

 

[Sandwich]

awesome, thanks dude.

 

[HAB]

Look at you, getting all fancy with the CCDB.


What size do you need?

 

[jonKranked]

so much for the cheap bike project

 

[Sandwich]

Look at you, getting all fancy with the CCDB.


What size do you need?

8.75 or 9

 

[Kanye West]

I ran one for a bit on my FB10, which had a similar leverage curve. I didn't think it worked well at all. To keep it from bottoming easily, I had to run like 20% sag, or cranked compression so that it wouldn't move. The usual story with CCDB's.

 

[Steve M]

I ran one for a bit on my FB10, which had a similar leverage curve. I didn't think it worked well at all. To keep it from bottoming easily, I had to run like 20% sag, or cranked compression so that it wouldn't move. The usual story with CCDB's.

We've seen similar issues here. On fairly linear bikes, it can work well if your terrain doesn't have a lot of big hits and/or you like firm spring rates, but if you're hitting big stuff frequently and/or prefer more bump sensitivity then it isn't necessarily the best choice for that frame. It is a brilliant shock in the right frame however.

 

[HardtailHack]

Where does the shockie go?

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Iron-Horse-29-Men-s-Yakuza-5.1-Mountain-Bike/19582539

 

[Sandwich]

Alright, here it is according to Linkage, at least. Yakuza, BMW Racelink, Yakuza, Demo 8 from 2012. I thought I had done a better job of lining up the axes, but oh well.

What shocks, besides the RC4, offer up some level of adjustability toward progression? Would a retuned/shimmed 5th element? Revox? Anything with a larger shaft and adjustable reservoir pressure/size?

 

[jonKranked]

i liked my tuned 5th element. was super easy to work on too.

 

[jonKranked]

makes me almost wish i had a bike that could run one again they were so easy to tune

 

[Sandwich]

did playing with the volume adjustment have a decent effect on the shocks progression/bottom out resistance? I know he fixes pressure with nitro...

 

[jonKranked]

did playing with the volume adjustment have a decent effect on the shocks progression/bottom out resistance? I know he fixes pressure with nitro...

yea. definitely noticeable. same w/ air pressure. just so we're clear - i did the shim conversion and tuning on the shock myself.

 

[Sandwich]

yea. definitely noticeable. same w/ air pressure. just so we're clear - i did the shim conversion and tuning on the shock myself.

ohhhh you fancy

I don't know that I know enough about shimz to reassemble one myself...

 

[Steve M]

Alright, here it is according to Linkage, at least. Yakuza, BMW Racelink, Yakuza, Demo 8 from 2012. I thought I had done a better job of lining up the axes, but oh well.

What shocks, besides the RC4, offer up some level of adjustability toward progression? Would a retuned/shimmed 5th element? Revox? Anything with a larger shaft and adjustable reservoir pressure/size?

Any air shock, or even just a DHX5 will also do the trick. A shimmed 5th Element won't have any significant degree of progression because removing the platform valve removes its progressive damping capability.

 

[jonKranked]

Any air shock, or even just a DHX5 will also do the trick. A shimmed 5th Element won't have any significant degree of progression because removing the platform valve removes its progressive damping capability.

removing the platform valve also removes its ability to blow out if you looked at it funny.

 

[Sandwich]

Any air shock, or even just a DHX5 will also do the trick. A shimmed 5th Element won't have any significant degree of progression because removing the platform valve removes its progressive damping capability.

even with the reservoir volume cranked down/the pressure up?

I've thought about a ccdb air, but that's a lots of ducats... would a vivid air work well?

 

[jonKranked]

You'd want the opposite, volume up pressure down.

 

[Sandwich]

You'd want the opposite, volume up pressure down.

Are you sure? In my sunday days it was always minimize volume, maximize pressure, to give you the most resistance deepest in the travel. I started messing around with opening up the chamber (reducing end travel support) because my shock wasn't doing anything towards the end.

 

[jonKranked]

Are you sure? In my sunday days it was always minimize volume, maximize pressure, to give you the most resistance deepest in the travel. I started messing around with opening up the chamber (reducing end travel support) because my shock wasn't doing anything towards the end.

That may have held true in a Sunday, depends on the bike. I was more running mid pressure on mine.

 

[Sandwich]

the shock rate on the sunday took a bit of a nose dive in the last third of travel...those settings were to prevent that. On the jacuzza, I could probably run a larger volume reservoir to boost damping/etc closer to mid travel and get the ramp up I want...then rely on the bottom out bumper to handle the really scary stuff. Bikes with "better" progressive linkages want low boost pressure and max volume resis to reduce that progression.

 

[HardtailHack]

Get something that will also work on a decent frame that way in three weeks when you decide the IH is crap you still have a decent shock to use?

 

[Sandwich]

Get something that will also work on a decent frame that way in three weeks when you decide the IH is crap you still have a decent shock to use?

duh!

 

[jonKranked]

the shock rate on the sunday took a bit of a nose dive in the last third of travel...those settings were to prevent that. On the jacuzza, I could probably run a larger volume reservoir to boost damping/etc closer to mid travel and get the ramp up I want...then rely on the bottom out bumper to handle the really scary stuff. Bikes with "better" progressive linkages want low boost pressure and max volume resis to reduce that progression.

Bear in mind I was also running a custom compression stack

 

[Steve M]

even with the reservoir volume cranked down/the pressure up?

I've thought about a ccdb air, but that's a lots of ducats... would a vivid air work well?

Relying on the air in the reservoir as a spring, especially with only a 1/2" shaft, places undue stress on the shock seals, among other issues. I personally don't believe that is a particularly useful way to tune a shock, because relying on air pressure ramping up that substantially means that you need to start with a very small air volume. This in turn means that when the shock heats up and the oil expands, the air volume decreases further. Progressively damped shocks have the same issue, but doubling the pressure in the reservoir (by compressing the shock) with a position sensitive valve roughly doubles the damping force produced by that valve (not including any other valving) at any given speed, but the increase in spring force with only double the pressure in the reservoir is pretty minimal compared to the forces generated by the coil. With the DHX series in particular, the majority of the damping force does come from the Boost Valve alone, with only a small amount resulting from the valving on the main piston.

As for the Vivid Air, it's a good shock, but its big drawback is having to service the entire damper just to get at the air sleeve seals.

As JonKranked mentioned, the platform valve in the 5th Elements is also prone to failure, and unlike a Boost Valve failure in a Fox unit, that also leaves you with no rebound damping (as opposed to just reduced compression damping), which can be quite dangerous. Shimming the thing fixes that issue but then also gets rid of the progression you're after, so I wouldn't recommend one of those.

 

[HAB]

removing the platform valve also removes itsu ability to blow out if you looked at it funny.

Didn't stop me from blowing it up.

 

[Sandwich]

Alright, so it sounds like a shimmed 5th/etc. will not satisfy my needs. I'd rather not buy a DHX, since I hated the last one I had. I've been looking at air shocks and have found a few decent options...

Xfusion HLR air seems to be everybody's darling, finding one for sale is another story.
I found a vivid air, but the service procedure is terrifying. The price is right and so is the size...but it's still an RS unit and supposedly the spring is as linear as possible. It also lacks and adjustable bottom out feature
I can't afford a CCDB.
What about the Roco Air? They go for cheap in various shady outlets, and it has most of the adjustments I'm looking for, like bottom out pressure and volume. It doesn't say much about the progressivity of the air spring or any damping fade resistance, but for $200 less than the competition, it's hard to beat.

Steve, any comments? Is the roco a viable option? Is the vivid worth sending it away for a mid-season replacement from RS? Should I just stay on the hunt for an RC4?

 

[Steve M]

Alright, so it sounds like a shimmed 5th/etc. will not satisfy my needs. I'd rather not buy a DHX, since I hated the last one I had. I've been looking at air shocks and have found a few decent options...

Xfusion HLR air seems to be everybody's darling, finding one for sale is another story.
I found a vivid air, but the service procedure is terrifying. The price is right and so is the size...but it's still an RS unit and supposedly the spring is as linear as possible. It also lacks and adjustable bottom out feature
I can't afford a CCDB.
What about the Roco Air? They go for cheap in various shady outlets, and it has most of the adjustments I'm looking for, like bottom out pressure and volume. It doesn't say much about the progressivity of the air spring or any damping fade resistance, but for $200 less than the competition, it's hard to beat.

Steve, any comments? Is the roco a viable option? Is the vivid worth sending it away for a mid-season replacement from RS? Should I just stay on the hunt for an RC4?

The Vivid Air is actually a pretty solid shock, and it does have the advantage of having parts and tools actually available to anyone, anywhere, all the time. You can install volume reducers in the air sleeve, they're relatively linear in the end stroke compared to some air shocks but still ramp up quite a bit compared to a coil. The air seals also seem quite durable in my experience, moreso than Fox seals, so the service intervals are reasonably large.

Trying to get hold of Marzocchi parts (especially up here in Canada) is difficult at best, so personally I'd avoid that. An RC4 would be great if you can get one at the right price.

 

[Kanye West]

I just picked up an RC4 new take-off for $200. Deals can be had, but it takes some time.

If you want to try a Zoke shock, I'll get you a ripping deal on a new one.