[DHperu]

Hey guys, i have a quick question for anyone who know about CCDB's.

I just bought a barely used 2009 commencal supreme DH frame and it came with a CCDB with gold body but i'm not sure if its the 2009 version with new internals or maybe a late 2008 model...

does anybody know how to tell the difference? i cant wait to build up the bike and rip on this shock!

thanks in advance!

p.s i emailed malcolm@ cane creek but he hasn't got back to me yet so im tryin out over here.

 

[Kanye West]

Can't really tell the different externally except maybe by the serial number.

 

[Bicyclist]

What's the difference between the model years in terms of the internals?

 

[DHperu]

Ive read that the new internals allow for a greater spectrum of damping range in all of the hi and low speed adjustments and also a new bottom out bumper than squishes down to 2mm thick which gives you a bit more travel.

here's the link i was reading, they do a pretty good review and explanation of how the CCDB works and how its changed for 09.

http://painincorporated.com/?p=180

i'm just really curious if mine is the new one or if not call cane creek and see if i can order the new internals. I also thought about the serial number but the only person i can think of that knows about that is Malcom @ Cane Creek, so i'm just waiting to get a response. I can imagine that if its just him running the shock department at Cane Creek, he must be a pretty busy guy.

 

[Biffff]

sweet I just got mine rebuilt for 09. Can't say I could tell any difference from last year. Its awesome......go give'r

 

[DHperu]

i just got an email from malcolm, he says thos new internals have not gone into production yet, but he referred to them as 2010, although in that review they refer to the changes as being in the 09 shock...now im just confused haha.

 

[Kanye West]

They've made a bunch of changes. Last I talked to them, anything shipped after December included the "new" internals listed on the website (parabolic needles, among a few other things). They're now working on MOAR.

 

[Dhracer3]

The changes from previous years to this year are pretty tiny that you most likely aren't going to notice them anyways... The shock is bomb proof since day one they are built and just work!... just takes some time to adjust them but be patient and do small adjustments at a time and you will be good!

 

[DHperu]

thanks guys, ive been reading up on the shock and will start out with the recommended settings and go on from there, this bike is gonna be the bomb!

 

[leprechaun]

Hey all,

Malcom was kind enough to hook me up with a shock with new internals. Now, i haven't ridden the original specs on a bike that was sprung correctly for me, so i can only talk about this shock vs others i have tried.

I have been riding the new CCDB on Giant Reign X with a 400lb spring.

I like crazy plush valving, and i'm a lil guy. But i like to jump, often to flat..better to go long then to come up short!! So, i have a tough time getting my setup right. Over the years i have been relying on Push to revalve shocks for my tastes.

Let me start out by saying the new CCDB valving is CRAZY PLUSH! Crazy plush like when the low speed compression is fully open i can make the bike squat under power like the bike is an uber low pivot with a blown 2001 vanilla. From what i understand, and by how it feels, there are 10 clicks of compression before much real damping comes in. If i was on a low leverage DH bike with a 250 lb spring i can see how valving this light/wide would be a great benefit.

After riding 3 days on the CCDB in moab to shake things down i had my Pushed Roco WC revalved for the Reign X and took the two shocks to Angel Fire for the Chili Challange over the weekend to see if the CCDB was realy as good as it felt on the rough ribbons of slickrock.

I started the day out on the Rocco. I rode the same trail for 4 days. I signed up for the super D which was down a suprisingly rocky 10.30 minute trail.

The Roco, as expected was really plush, and tracks the trail well. It does bottom fairly easily, even with a firmer bumper than i had on it before. The bike holds it's speed well through rough terrain, a problem i have on almost all shocks.

After 2 runs on the Rocco i got the compression clicker set to not bottom harshly and still feel smooth.

I swapped the CCDB, grabbed the cool lil adjuster tool, and hit the lift.

WHOA!!! Holy Plush Maker!!! The sensitivity is just insane! With my usual habit of starting full soft i ran the compression adjusters full open. It was a squishy pile of goo that somehow still didn't bottom out! It was too squishy to pedal on so i steadily increased low speed compression till it felt somewhat normal, at 12clicks in. Now the bike felt held up in it's travel some, so there was more useable travel but still tracked over wet roots brilliantly. There were a bunch of little table tops that i overjumped by a mile so i started upping the high speed compression. I only went in 1/2 turn and the shock felt much more beefy right away. The shock has what i like to call the Magic Bottom Out Bumper. I'm not sure if it's because the small shaft allows for more rubber or what but the shock is truely bottomless. I know i use all the travel all the time but it never harshly stops. The bumper squashes flat untill there are noticeable lines on the bumper from it squishing out into the spring coils.

After 4 days of ramming rocks at 32psi on a 900g tire i never hit the rim hard, no flat tire.

The shock is not perfect though, i was playing around on th 4X course on the morning of day 4 and came up short on a double and got bucked over the bars...broken helmet, wrist and radial head on the ol elbow. For $650 the shock should tell me that i'm a moron for jumping to flat on the roller before a big double and to either stop or grab a pedal stroke before takeoff!!!

My apoligies for typos and runon sentences.Written with one hand and a whole lot of lortab.

thanks to Malcom on the shock hookup!!!

 

[KavuRider]

Good stuff Krispy, heal up bro!

 

[Gridds]

This explains the changes from old to new:

http://painincorporated.com/?p=180

 

[DHperu]

This explains the changes from old to new:

http://painincorporated.com/?p=180

yeah thats the same link i posted at the beginning haha, nice writeup leprechaun!, my frame hasn´t arrived yet but i hope the CCDB is the the one with new internals or else how much might i be looking on spending to get them??

 

[Gridds]

yeah thats the same link i posted at the beginning haha, nice writeup leprechaun!, my frame hasn´t arrived yet but i hope the CCDB is the the one with new internals or else how much might i be looking on spending to get them??

Ah, my bad. oster_oops:It's late here. My brain has gone to sleep.. I'll go to bed..

 

[Uncle Cliffy]

I have been riding the new CCDB on Giant Reign X with a 400lb spring.

Just curious, do you have the shock in there in the normal orientation? If so, how do you make adjustments to the damping? I thought about getting a Reign X since it would fit my CCDB, but instead decided to sell the shock and get an Intense SS. I never did a test fit... Seemed like it would be a PITA to adjust anything!

 

[William42]

they face the same way as a regular shock. Basically they're in the same position as the boost valve on a DHX. bloody awkward with the glory hole.

 

[leprechaun]

Just curious, do you have the shock in there in the normal orientation? If so, how do you make adjustments to the damping? I thought about getting a Reign X since it would fit my CCDB, but instead decided to sell the shock and get an Intense SS. I never did a test fit... Seemed like it would be a PITA to adjust anything!

I'm running it upside down, i have to remove 2 of the the plastic shock protector screws and swivel it out of the way. kind of a pain but no big deal.

 

[Uncle Cliffy]

I'm running it upside down, i have to remove 2 of the the plastic shock protector screws and swivel it out of the way. kind of a pain but no big deal.

I actually figured this was the only way you could install it. I didn't think you could still use the shock cover though... Nice.

You've probably got a little less sprung weight on there huh?

 

[leprechaun]

yeah, the shock cover just fits over it perfectly. ultimately if it is installed resi end down the cg is lower and the unsprung weight is less, it just looks...upside down!

who cares, i'll have the 2010 reign x by the time my arm is healed anyway.

 

[Huck Banzai]

Krispy! Time to break out Double-Down!

And I just came from the 'American Pride' thrad where your gal Leigh is flossing red white & blue.

Heal up, and nice 'review'.

 

[Uncle Cliffy]

who cares, i'll have the 2010 reign x by the time my arm is healed anyway.

I've been hearing good things about it from Dave at Giant. He's been riding a proto for a little bit.

 

[Alloy]

I just got mine back after sending it in for rebuild... it had started bottoming out after a year of abuse on my V10 and Faith.

A couple notes...

-Everything Krispy say is right on! It is especially noticeable how bad ass the shock is after riding a DHX.

-Malcolm is cool guy I tried to explain to him I had been abusing his shock for over a year and he should take my money for the rebuild. He would not take it. Not even for shipping. I didn't have to pay anything. I wasn't even being nice on the phone either, I had just woke up and was being an ass. That's how cool Malcolm is.

Other than that I still have yet to ride a shock as good as the CCDB. Although I did do a run on the Elka last weekend and it was good, but CCDB feels just a little more quality.

When they make a fork, I will be their first customer.

 

[Kanye West]

You just woke up and you were being an ass and trying to give someone money? Put me on speeddial for the first thing when you wake up in the morning. I will put up with you being an ass too....for a price.

 

[Udi]

If i was on a low leverage DH bike with a 250 lb spring i can see how valving this light/wide would be a great benefit.

You just described my bike to the dot, do you think even with a 250lb spring and low-ish leverage (2.6:1) that there will still be enough range in the new valving to make the bike quite lightly damped and 'poppy' if desired? It sounds like the compression will go plenty light, but can the rebound be set really fast to match if desired?

That's not how I'd tune ideally, but I'm asking about the extemes of the range because that's the complaint I have about most shocks (as do you I gather). PS. Heal up soon, your post was a good read for a one-hander.

i just got an email from malcolm, he says thos new internals have not gone into production yet, but he referred to them as 2010

I gathered the same thing from speaking to malcolm lately, he referred to the latest incarnation of the CCDB as 2010 and from what I can gather, if you order one now, they'll build you a new one. It seems like the 2010 tunes are just going into production now.

 

[profro]

Cane Creek has been working with low leverage bikes for a couple years now to get the tune just right. They are constantly working with riders, racers, and bike manufacturers to get the range useful enough. Email Malcolm and talk with him about your bike and your style. I would be surprised if they haven't already had some R&D on it.

 

[Udi]

Already have (and it sounds good), but I was more interested in a real world opinion from a light guy on the new shock.

 

[profro]

I worked with Cane Creek to develop the new tune with the lower leveraged 08-09 Morewood Izimu and now the super low leverage Morewood Makulu. I am not sure the exact limits of the 2010, but the custom tunes we tried on the bikes restored the pop and wheel sticking characteristics vs. the previous tune. Based on our feedback, I think Cane Creek selected a tune that was best to move into production. Cane Creek's R&D knows well the relationship between light compression and its relationship with rebound. In my experience with the new tune they have got it dialed for lower leverages even all the way down to the Makulu's 2.3:1 ratio. But its vital that you get the correct spring rate. Talk with Malcolm to get that selected.

 

[Jeremy R]

Already have (and it sounds good), but I was more interested in a real world opinion from a light guy on the new shock.

Hey Udi,
I am not as light as you, but I might can help.
On my Izimu, I run a 300# spring with the new tune, and I weigh 178.
Both the compression range and the rebound range are really wide.
To get to your question about the rebound, on my older double barrels,
I would always run the rebound adjustments close to open, but when riding the new tune, I was surprised that I kept increasing the rebound damping
throughout the day. Eventually, I settled on running both of my rebound settings close to the 50% point of the tuning range, and I do prefer a faster rebound feel in general. Running the rebound all the way open on my bike, it would be a straight pogo stick.
As far as the other settings, the only one I am running fairly open is the HSC.
I am running about 3/4 of one turn and have never had any bottoming issues.
The only adjustment I am really changing course to course is the LSC.
I had my DB tuned perfect for Windrock which is rocky and rough and you want your shock to be as open as possible there. Then on Sunday, I rode a track that was steep but groomed, and had a bunch of tight "catcher" berms that would g-out your suspension all the way down. So, I increased my LSC 4 or 5 clicks and dialed in the rebound to match and it was spot on again.
I love being able to dial in the shock to suit different courses and it does exactly what it is supposed to do.

 

[leprechaun]

I am not sure what my rebound settings are/were, i let a team mate use the shock since i'm broken and he has changed the settings a lot for his spring rate.

I didn't count the rebound clicks/turns like i did on the compression.

I would guess that the rebound has a wider range for 2010 as well though.

What bike are you riding Udi? Just curious.

 

[toodles]

What bike are you riding Udi? Just curious.

Udi is on one of those old-fashioned, discontinued Sunday things.

 

[Jm_]

But its vital that you get the correct spring rate.

With leverage rates that low, shouldn't the springs be offered in 25lb incriments? Otherwise it would be impossible to get the correct spring rate.

 

[Kanye West]

With leverage rates that low, shouldn't the springs be offered in 25lb incriments? Otherwise it would be impossible to get the correct spring rate.

That would require foresight. That isn't allowed in the bike industry. Only afterthoughts.

 

[Pslide]

Just wondering, has anyone explained anywhere why old CCDBs don't work well with Sundays and low leverage ratio bikes? I haven't read the 100+ pages of the DW-link thread, is it in there somewhere?

I know that they are not set up for low leverage and that some people can't get their rebound fast enough, but has anyone explained anything beyond that?

 

[Udi]

Hey Udi,
I am not as light as you, but I might can help.

Great post, thanks.

Just wondering, has anyone explained anywhere why old CCDBs don't work well with Sundays and low leverage ratio bikes? I haven't read the 100+ pages of the DW-link thread, is it in there somewhere?

I know that they are not set up for low leverage and that some people can't get their rebound fast enough, but has anyone explained anything beyond that?

It's dead simple, the previous gen CCDB just didn't have enough damping range (i.e. even at minimum settings there was too much damping) for the lower leverage bikes and lower springrates. I think a lot of owners just dealt with it, but from what I can gather it was less than perfect. A friend of mine in the alps recently got malcolm to upgrade his shock to the new tune, and his description matches JeremyR's. He says the difference is quite significant. Previously he ran most of the adjustments nearly all the way out, but with the new one if you do that it's like a pogo stick, so the range is a lot more usable and suitable on the lower leverage bikes. At least that seems to be the verdict.

As an aside, does anyone know if the CCDB tune that came in the Legend is the latest or not? I.e. does gold body necessarily = new tune, or no? I'm leaning towards no at the moment, because Socket's description of his CCDB (Legend) sounded a lot like the previous generation one, whereas people seem to suggest the new 2010 ones can be set up to feel a lot more lively.

 

[Pslide]

As an aside, does anyone know if the CCDB tune that came in the Legend is the latest or not? I.e. does gold body necessarily = new tune, or no?

Udi, I didn't quite let on, but I'm a Legend tester myself, so am quite curious how previous Sunday owners felt about their CCDBs since they are similar leverage curves.

I'm almost 100% positive we have the old tune. From what I understand the new tune is still not available (although may be going into production now from what someone said above). Keith has arranged to get a new tune to try on a Legend (particularly the one Dirt mag tested - which is mine), so I should know soon how the new CCDB works.

I think people have got it wrong running their compression settings all the way out, unless they want an over active suspension with no low speed damping, which is not really how the CCDB is intended to work. What *I think* is happenening on these low leverage bikes with the CCDB is that if you open up the high speed compression, which is a spring loaded poppet valve, it becomes way too active and doesn't use any of the low speed circuit. Due to the higher shaft speeds in our bikes, the low speed valve is almost immediately bypassed under any kind of compression (like a deep corner for example). So you get none of the advantages of low speed damping (like cornering stability) and are riding almost completely on the high speed circuit - not how the CCDB was intended to work.

I run my LSC adjustment all the way open and run a fair amount of HSC (2 turns in from open). This allows the LSC valve to actually work when it's supposed to. The bike's stability is much better, it rides higher in the travel (good when you're running 40% sag), but it is slightly more sluggish and doesn't have as much pop. I'm hoping the new tune will cure the latter. I'm still fettling though...

So for us low leverage guys, if you want low speed damping, run your low speed all the way open and dial up your HSC. Basically the opposite of what you'd think and CC tells you to do...

 

[motomike]

Already have (and it sounds good), but I was more interested in a real world opinion from a light guy on the new shock.

I am light (very) and have the new one on the way. Malcolm said they were going to be ready on the 15th, so mine should arrive any time now. I'll let ya know how it goes...

 

[Bicyclist]

I am very tempted to try a new DB. I weigh about 150, and the old one was overdamped on my SX Trail, which has a relatively low average leverage ratio (2.44). I am a little underwhelmed with my current DHX, and would like to either get it PUSHed, or pick up an Elka/DB.

 

[William42]

want to buy my DB? I'm getting an elka!

 

[Bicyclist]

Wrong size, but thanks.

 

[Jm_]

I think people have got it wrong running their compression settings all the way out, unless they want an over active suspension with no low speed damping, which is not really how the CCDB is intended to work. What *I think* is happenening on these low leverage bikes with the CCDB is that if you open up the high speed compression, which is a spring loaded poppet valve, it becomes way too active and doesn't use any of the low speed circuit. Due to the higher shaft speeds in our bikes, the low speed valve is almost immediately bypassed under any kind of compression (like a deep corner for example). So you get none of the advantages of low speed damping (like cornering stability) and are riding almost completely on the high speed circuit - not how the CCDB was intended to work...

I would just say that's a good overall problem that is common when people adjust their shocks. The avalanche has made that clear to me. Not all shocks have that much tunability, but when they do, it has to be set up correct. On the other hand, one think that CCDB may be figuring out is that it's difficult to make one shock for all bikes. There is the heavy-shim-stack on the main piston that's only for extreme forces, but can it only have "one tune"? In any case it may not really be possible to just have one tune.