What is your input on daul ring chain guides? What works the best?
Evil vs MRP (or something else)
Evil vs MRP (or something else)
chain guide ?
- Thread starter gooch
- Start date
Evil.......
evil
plus the custy service from evil/e-13 is top notch
plus the custy service from evil/e-13 is top notch
At first i was skeptical of e-13. After using one for a full race season im sold. Works real well, very easy to set up, durable, but if there are problems they stand behind the product.
I've used both the MRP LRP and the Evil DRS... At first the Evil bothered me because it was louder than the LRP, but they've since remedied that with a softer compound for the roller.
I dropped my chain a few times on the MRP - never on the Evil/e13. To echo oly's post, e13 does stand behind their product.
My vote is for the Evil
I dropped my chain a few times on the MRP - never on the Evil/e13. To echo oly's post, e13 does stand behind their product.
My vote is for the Evil
i've used the LRP and the DRS. my vote still goes to the MRP. It is lighter, simpler to setup, rolls better, and looks cooler. The DRS had some early issues with the durometer of the roller which was annoying. The non-rolling problem of the roller was compounded by bad bearing seating inside the roller. This is manageable though. the biggest problem with a DRS is the plastic spacer plates that you use to space the roller to accomodate chainline. They break very easily. Once you break them, your guide will fall apart. Also, the hardware on the roller assembly uses fairly small hex key which makes the bolt heads prone to stripping.
I have had my chain come off on both guides though so take your pick in that department.
I have had my chain come off on both guides though so take your pick in that department.
Oh one other thing, MRP (Ekosport) is doing a much better job these days standing behind their product. They are also west coast.
Pffft.....as IF!transitionbikes said:
Evil DRS hands down. I have run one for a year and a half now on my 02 Big Hit DH. Gear combos are :
For races and primarily DH work 26 x 38 rings with an 11-21 SRAM road casset.
Trail work 22 x 38 rings with an 11-34 casset.
Run a good XT or XTR front Derailleur and it will work perfect.
I also prefer SRAM rear Derailleurs and Impulse shifters.
I have never dropped a chain nor has my bike failed a shift with this set-up.
I do not have any confidence in the MRP myself.
One other duely set-up you might think about is from Black Spire and while I don't think it is as durable, flexable in use or reliable as the Evil I would recomend it over the MRP. Plus the Black Spire comes with new rings and a mystery plastic bash ring like the Evil, quality and it looks very trick. If you want more info and a good deal on the Black Spire contact Scott at Bike Works (425-334-7812) and he will set you up right.
For races and primarily DH work 26 x 38 rings with an 11-21 SRAM road casset.
Trail work 22 x 38 rings with an 11-34 casset.
Run a good XT or XTR front Derailleur and it will work perfect.
I also prefer SRAM rear Derailleurs and Impulse shifters.
I have never dropped a chain nor has my bike failed a shift with this set-up.
I do not have any confidence in the MRP myself.
One other duely set-up you might think about is from Black Spire and while I don't think it is as durable, flexable in use or reliable as the Evil I would recomend it over the MRP. Plus the Black Spire comes with new rings and a mystery plastic bash ring like the Evil, quality and it looks very trick. If you want more info and a good deal on the Black Spire contact Scott at Bike Works (425-334-7812) and he will set you up right.
I have to question a few of your comments here
dont be offended, just want to understand a few things so that we can keep improving product and service.
If you have any suggestions, comments, etc... about ANY e.thirteen products, please, dont hesitate to call us or write at support@e13components.com. We have 3 staff members on call at all times to take care of cuistomers and make sure that they are taken care of. I personally would love to get a hold of that DRS guide you talked about so we can analyze it and see what caused your issues. We are all about trying to make things better for all riders. Whether its support of a local race series through sponsorship, support of our product in times of need, or improvement of our product so that riders can spend more time riding and less time wrenching, we are all about it.
Thanks!
Dave
e.thirteen
dont be offended, just want to understand a few things so that we can keep improving product and service.
Although your mrp guide might have been lighter, the DRS "rolls" as well as or better than any other dual ring guide on the market. I cant imagine setup being any sompler than a DRS. If you can read, you can set it up. Plus, the variability and ease of setup for different width BBs is unmatched. As far as looks go, hey, to each his own! I know a lot of people who feel the other way. One BIG thing you are missing is the durability of the DRS, which is unmatched. For its tiny amount of extra weight, you get a product that will last for a LONG time.transitionbikes said:
All DRS chainguides have come with the soft durometer stealth roller for 2 years now. The stealth roller is not just some arbitrary urethane roller that can split in half or chunk out, and wear out in several months like most others. The stealth roller uses a proprietary injection molded rubber compouns that is softer than, AND 10X more durable than the urethane rollers used in other guides. I dont understand the bad bearing seating comment. Can you explain further? The bearings on a DRS sit on a machined aluminum axle, which locates the bearings to each other and to the roller. It is almost impossible for the bearings to not seat correctly. In 4 years, we have NEVER heard of this issue. I would love to inspect the guide that had this problem.
I am shocked by this. Again, an issue with the DRS that neither I or any of the e.thirteen customer service staff has heard of. I have personally logged hundreds and hunddreds of miles on DRS guides, frequently smashing them full bore into immovable objects and hitting the inner wear plates all the time. I have never seen this or heard of this. The plates are designed to take an impact, and in the real world, they really have proven to. I also dont understand "once you break them, your guide will fall apart". How does this happen? There are 4 3mm bolts, pLUS the 2 5mm slider bolts securing the slider plates to the back plate. Do you mean that you broke all of the bolts somehow? How did you break the 3mm bolts that are inside the guide behind the chainring? Ill be honest, we have NEVER seen anything like this. For the 3mm bolts, you are right, if you ham fist it, you can strip them. Thats why there are torque specs for every bolt on an e.thirteen chainguide. That doen involve reading the instructions, something that a lot of riders dont do, but the fact is that the 3mm bolts dont need to be wailed down with Conan power to hold the slider plates down. A light snug will keep them in place forever.
No mechanical device is infallible, but in our experience, a DRS guide, if setup correctly (and you really have to try to not set it up correctly) is basically infallible. Privateer riders racing on DRS guides have won NORBA national DH races at Snowshoe, and the guides have also won Platekill slalom pro class several times, just to name a couple quantifiable succuesses off the top of my head.
If you have any suggestions, comments, etc... about ANY e.thirteen products, please, dont hesitate to call us or write at support@e13components.com. We have 3 staff members on call at all times to take care of cuistomers and make sure that they are taken care of. I personally would love to get a hold of that DRS guide you talked about so we can analyze it and see what caused your issues. We are all about trying to make things better for all riders. Whether its support of a local race series through sponsorship, support of our product in times of need, or improvement of our product so that riders can spend more time riding and less time wrenching, we are all about it.
Thanks!
Dave
e.thirteen
Go for the blackspire dewelie!
Hi Dave,
I'm not trying to rag on your product as i do think you guys make some great stuff. So, here's some responses to your questions.
Regarding rolling resistance of roller: I do understand that you are now using softer durometer rollers which has improved the rolling on that guide tremendously. Honestly i haven't tried a newer DRS to see how well it rolls now, but i trust what i hear from people. No need to continue debating about this one as i'm sure the issue no longer exists.
Regarding ease of setup: To get an LRP set up you don't even need to read, which is why i say it is simpler. Yes, with a DRS you can accomodate more different chainline/bb options. It does take awhile to get this right though as you have to continually install/remove the guide to add/remove spacer plates until you get spacing right. that is not hard, just takes time. The LRP you don't have to do this with, and if you're using the proper BB spindle length for your bike, you won't even have to do any spacing. i understand that this may be a big if though.
Regarding the guide's weight: I personally believe that the user of a dual ring guide is more of an all-mountain / freeride rider that may be more concerned with weight. that big plastic bash ring in my opinion is overkill (yes, i understand alot of people need it because they tag their rings there alot). It would be nice if e.thirteen offered a lighter weight option for those so concerned. I personally just couldn't get over using that huge outer bash ring as it actually caused me to hit more things than it actually helped (ie: i wanted as small a bash ring as possible while still covering/protecting my 34 tooth ring).
Regarding bad bearing seat inside roller: I had an issue where the old style roller had some weird grooves inside it and the bearing wouldn't seat flush and as such, the bearings sat uneven on the axle. This caused some extra drag as the bearings appeard to be stressed laterally. I'm sure this issue is gone with the new rollers you guys use now.
Regarding the spacer plates breaking: i broke the spacer plates at the bottom end of the guide such that the bottom bolt basically hung unattached to anything. This did not occur from me hitting something with the guide. It occured when a rock flew up as i was travelling mach 2. Must have been a big rock that bounced up and broke the plates. Of course i am speculating as to when/how it happened but i do know the ride it happened on and i know i didn't hit the guide on something (something flew up and hit it). Not sure if you guys have fixed this yet. basically after this happened, i took my guide apart (or tried to, one of the little 3mm hex bolts head stripped so i couldn't get the spacer plates off). I have not heard of anyone else that has had this happen. maybe it was just me.
Regarding bolt torque: i did have my bolts rattle loose a couple times which annoyed me. I then put some blue loctite on then which solved the problem....but probably also caused my problem of stripping a 3mm hex head. Also, my bolt head complaint stems from removing/installing the guide many times on many different setups. I'm sure this led to a breakdown of the head of the bolt and eventual stripping. For people that constantly install/reinstall things it makes sense to have bigger hex heads.
Regarding chain coming off: I think it happened to me a couple times at whistler. Honestly i'm not sure how it happened but i do remember vividly one time at whistler coming down dirt merchant, on a jump into a g-out somehow my chain got sucked into the inner side of the guide. I had to stop, remove my rear wheel, then use a chain breaker, to get the chain back in place. I think this happened twice but the second time was fuzzier. The first time did cause a mild crash since i tried to throw a pedal in after the g-out and i had a good amount of jamming which sent me clean off the bike. I know that no guide is perfect (ie: it happened to me with the LRP as well) and i think it is an unrealistic expectation to think that it can NEVER happen. It can, you just probably don't hear about it that often.
So, again, i am not ragging on evil e.thirteen but rather just trying to share an experience. Hopefully most of my issues (which happened on a 2003 guide) are non-existant on current guides. If that is the case, people shouldn't experience what i experienced (except maybe the chain coming off or the spacer plate issue). I actually am not partial to either the e.thirteen or the MRP guides these days as i've switched to Blackspire single ring guides (and yes, i've tried their dually and it doesn't compare to either the LRP or the DRS).
I will look to see if i still have the broken guide that gave me grief. If so, i'll send it to you so you guys can have a look.
PS - i definitely can't question the cust service of evil e.thirteen. definitely top notch. every time i've called i've gotten great service. Also, they care about their products and their customers...as evidenced by this lengthy thread. My comment about Ekosport cust service was merely "they are getting better", which should be welcome news since their service has sucked for the last couple years.
-kyle
I'm not trying to rag on your product as i do think you guys make some great stuff. So, here's some responses to your questions.
Regarding rolling resistance of roller: I do understand that you are now using softer durometer rollers which has improved the rolling on that guide tremendously. Honestly i haven't tried a newer DRS to see how well it rolls now, but i trust what i hear from people. No need to continue debating about this one as i'm sure the issue no longer exists.
Regarding ease of setup: To get an LRP set up you don't even need to read, which is why i say it is simpler. Yes, with a DRS you can accomodate more different chainline/bb options. It does take awhile to get this right though as you have to continually install/remove the guide to add/remove spacer plates until you get spacing right. that is not hard, just takes time. The LRP you don't have to do this with, and if you're using the proper BB spindle length for your bike, you won't even have to do any spacing. i understand that this may be a big if though.
Regarding the guide's weight: I personally believe that the user of a dual ring guide is more of an all-mountain / freeride rider that may be more concerned with weight. that big plastic bash ring in my opinion is overkill (yes, i understand alot of people need it because they tag their rings there alot). It would be nice if e.thirteen offered a lighter weight option for those so concerned. I personally just couldn't get over using that huge outer bash ring as it actually caused me to hit more things than it actually helped (ie: i wanted as small a bash ring as possible while still covering/protecting my 34 tooth ring).
Regarding bad bearing seat inside roller: I had an issue where the old style roller had some weird grooves inside it and the bearing wouldn't seat flush and as such, the bearings sat uneven on the axle. This caused some extra drag as the bearings appeard to be stressed laterally. I'm sure this issue is gone with the new rollers you guys use now.
Regarding the spacer plates breaking: i broke the spacer plates at the bottom end of the guide such that the bottom bolt basically hung unattached to anything. This did not occur from me hitting something with the guide. It occured when a rock flew up as i was travelling mach 2. Must have been a big rock that bounced up and broke the plates. Of course i am speculating as to when/how it happened but i do know the ride it happened on and i know i didn't hit the guide on something (something flew up and hit it). Not sure if you guys have fixed this yet. basically after this happened, i took my guide apart (or tried to, one of the little 3mm hex bolts head stripped so i couldn't get the spacer plates off). I have not heard of anyone else that has had this happen. maybe it was just me.
Regarding bolt torque: i did have my bolts rattle loose a couple times which annoyed me. I then put some blue loctite on then which solved the problem....but probably also caused my problem of stripping a 3mm hex head. Also, my bolt head complaint stems from removing/installing the guide many times on many different setups. I'm sure this led to a breakdown of the head of the bolt and eventual stripping. For people that constantly install/reinstall things it makes sense to have bigger hex heads.
Regarding chain coming off: I think it happened to me a couple times at whistler. Honestly i'm not sure how it happened but i do remember vividly one time at whistler coming down dirt merchant, on a jump into a g-out somehow my chain got sucked into the inner side of the guide. I had to stop, remove my rear wheel, then use a chain breaker, to get the chain back in place. I think this happened twice but the second time was fuzzier. The first time did cause a mild crash since i tried to throw a pedal in after the g-out and i had a good amount of jamming which sent me clean off the bike. I know that no guide is perfect (ie: it happened to me with the LRP as well) and i think it is an unrealistic expectation to think that it can NEVER happen. It can, you just probably don't hear about it that often.
So, again, i am not ragging on evil e.thirteen but rather just trying to share an experience. Hopefully most of my issues (which happened on a 2003 guide) are non-existant on current guides. If that is the case, people shouldn't experience what i experienced (except maybe the chain coming off or the spacer plate issue). I actually am not partial to either the e.thirteen or the MRP guides these days as i've switched to Blackspire single ring guides (and yes, i've tried their dually and it doesn't compare to either the LRP or the DRS).
I will look to see if i still have the broken guide that gave me grief. If so, i'll send it to you so you guys can have a look.
PS - i definitely can't question the cust service of evil e.thirteen. definitely top notch. every time i've called i've gotten great service. Also, they care about their products and their customers...as evidenced by this lengthy thread. My comment about Ekosport cust service was merely "they are getting better", which should be welcome news since their service has sucked for the last couple years.
-kyle
I dropped my DRS equiped chain on Dirt Merchant also... but the real thing that freaked me out is when the chain pinched between the chainstay and and the wearplate... this prompted me to take the thing appart and whittle it down some more for clearance... this was on a Banshee Scream frame (4 bar linkage)... I've broken wear plates as well... from casing rocks and dropping the chain and trying to pedal and save it with the granny... all in all I like the E13 DRS and SRS better than MRP products because they are more durable... they have to be when your 6'1" 190lbs and ride a 50 lb freeride bike!!! the SRS has held up to some wicked street bashing on my hardtale also... I have a big crack (30mm) in the bash ring ... and I'm bumbed because it actually says EVIL on it!!