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Chain retention - maestro vs. VPP vs. DW

epic

Turbo Monkey
Sep 15, 2008
1,045
21
Any of you kinematics geeks have an opinion on which type of suspension is going to be more gentle in terms of chain retention? Not so much on a DH bike since we are running full chain guides there, but in the Enduro-XC world where we might not be. I've always been able to get away with not having any kind of chain device, but I'm starting to think my new VPP bike might be trying to chuck the chain in a way that Maestro never did.
 

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
22,788
2,423
In my pants
"might be trying to chuck?"

Is it falling off or not?


If yes-> get chain tensioner

If no-> fuggetaboutit
 

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
6,294
1,924
Ottawa, Canada
you running a single ring? a clutch rd? I just picked up a wolftooth narrow-wide tooth profile ring and have two rides on it. Not a single dropped chain, whereas it was a regular occurence before the ring switch. Mojo HD is the bike it's on, so DW link. No other form of chain retention either, just the ring. It seems RaceFace and eThirteen are working on similar rings. give it a try, I'm totally amazed that it works so well.
 

epic

Turbo Monkey
Sep 15, 2008
1,045
21
It's getting chucked. Just wondering if it is the kinematics of the bike causing it or something else. It's the exact same drivetrain setup I had only Giant now on an Intense. I rarely had issues with the Giant. Tossed the chain 4-4 times in a 30 min shakedown cruise yesterday. It's a triple with rapid-rise so no clutch RD, but like I said, it hasn't been a problem before. I was also missing one chainring yesterday (the 22 is at the machine shop getting ground down so it will clear the BB shell). It just seems to me that how the chainstay moves could be in play here. Don't the VPP and the Maestro lower links move in opposite directions?
 

jonKranked

Press Button, Receive Stupid
Nov 10, 2005
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if you swapped over your drivetrain, did you re-check your chain length? if your new bike has a shorter CS and you didn't shorten the chain accordingly, that would likely be your culprit. or at least the first place to start.
 

OGRipper

Turbo Monkey
Feb 3, 2004
9,786
207
NORCAL is the hizzle
If you need to grind your chainring you could have a chainline issue or something else weird happening. Tell us more about your setup - frame, crank, bb, etc.

Also, rapid rise, really? How old is your rear derailleur? Your spring tension might be shot, clutch or not.
 

epic

Turbo Monkey
Sep 15, 2008
1,045
21
Apparently the inner chainring is a known issue with this bike. M970 crank on Intense Carbine. The chainline is fine. The RD is practically new - I temporarily cannibalized from my wife's virtually never ridden bike. I really like dual-control and it works better with RR, but I can't find replacements anymore. Oh well, the new bike will be getting all M980 in a few weeks. I just didn't want to wait to ride it. I also did check chain length. Let the air out of the shock and everything - it can't go shorter.

The only drivetrain component that was purchased new and is different from what I've used before is a direct mount M980 FD. I can't see that being an issue. I'm sure Shadow+ will solve this, I just wonder if what it is solving is a kinematics deal.
 

jonKranked

Press Button, Receive Stupid
Nov 10, 2005
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Lots of guys use 'em. I think they are clocked differently from biopace though.
i wonder...

if we built a bike with dual control, top normal rear der, biopace, canti brakes, onza tyres, foam grips, and anodize the whole thing purple... could we open a time portal to the 80's?
 

OGRipper

Turbo Monkey
Feb 3, 2004
9,786
207
NORCAL is the hizzle
The only drivetrain component that was purchased new and is different from what I've used before is a direct mount M980 FD. I can't see that being an issue. I'm sure Shadow+ will solve this, I just wonder if what it is solving is a kinematics deal.
Actually if your front derailleur is too high that could be a problem. As for kinematics, I suppose a significant variation in chain growth could have an impact on chain retention, but those systems should all be pretty close for a particular amount of travel. Did you have less travel before?

If not, maybe you are just going faster on your new rig? (That's me trying to be nice and not blame your preferred parts.)
 

wiscodh

Monkey
Jun 21, 2007
808
92
303
i wonder...

if we built a bike with dual control, top normal rear der, biopace, canti brakes, onza tyres, foam grips, and anodize the whole thing purple... could we open a time portal to the 80's?
find some huge bar ends and some oakley "M" frames and we can atlest hit the 90's
 
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