[Rick205]

Fantastic idea and concept, but i too cant believe that the steerer being offset by 2degrees at the top wouldnt damage the life of bearings, also, would the berings not run tight?

One other thing to think about though, wouldnt headtube length dictate the resulting change in angle if two cups were used? (if im wrong its because i have been awake for too long and my brains not online at the moment)

Oh, not meaning to sound like im flaming your pricing but $100 is a little high......

Rick

 

[bpatterson6]

Can someone explain to me why you would want to further slacken the Sunday HA?
It's already what, 64 or 65deg?
It seems something like this may come into good use on a Socom or frame with a Steeper HA.

 

[xy9ine]

is this not the same guy who did the offset socom cups? search function...

edit - maybe not. sweet:

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=189588&highlight=socom+headset&page=2

 

[ZenkiGarage]

One other thing to think about though, wouldnt headtube length dictate the resulting change in angle if two cups were used? (if im wrong its because i have been awake for too long and my brains not online at the moment)

You are 100% correct. thats the other flaw with this idea. not only do the cups need to be machined to match they definatly will not be universal because not only are headtubes different but so are headsets. by changing the headtube height or stack height you will need a different set of offset cups to put the bearings back inline.

 

[SkullCrack]

I remember this being discussed in the thread about the Commencal head tube:

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2043900


dw mentions making a set:

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2043900&postcount=20

 

[ChrisKring]

It's not technically difficult to machine these cups up. However, as stated above each application (head tube length) would be different. Therefore, you would need to build it for a specific length headtube and supply shims or expect the end user to face the headtube to an exact length. Anything short of that and something isn't going to be aligned perfectly.

I know several bicycle manufactures have played with this. MX factory bikes have this kind of thing all the time. They will even put the fork legs on a different axis than the steerer tube.

Anyway, good idea but very difficult to turn into a consumer product. Would be better for a tuner to install it for an end user.

 

[LukeD]

It's not technically difficult to machine these cups up. However, as stated above each application (head tube length) would be different. Therefore, you would need to build it for a specific length headtube and supply shims or expect the end user to face the headtube to an exact length. Anything short of that and something isn't going to be aligned perfectly.

I know several bicycle manufactures have played with this. MX factory bikes have this kind of thing all the time. They will even put the fork legs on a different axis than the steerer tube.

Anyway, good idea but very difficult to turn into a consumer product. Would be better for a tuner to install it for an end user.

in talking with an engineer about this he brought up the point of just tilting the bearings inside the cups which would help with the bearings in terms of wear and binding...does that make sense? or would keeping everything flat and offsetting the holes be sufficient? hmmm

 

[ChrisKring]

in talking with an engineer about this he brought up the point of just tilting the bearings inside the cups which would help with the bearings in terms of wear and binding...does that make sense? or would keeping everything flat and offsetting the holes be sufficient? hmmm

That's pretty much the whole debate here. I would think you would want to put the bearings on an angle. However, the original poster claims it is working.

I think the real trick setup would be a sleeved and keyed head tube with integrated bearings. Of course, it would take a frame manufacturer to design it into the frame.

 

[MttyTee]

They will even put the fork legs on a different axis than the steerer tube.

Figuring out those dynamics will make your brain melt!

...and IMO 63.5 HA is getting a bit ridiculous. Maybe we need different offset clamps like moto.

 

[buckoW]

I have been running adjustable head angler for 3 years now on Scott bikes but I don't have to press in any cups when I want to change. The alignment could be a bit tough getting both cups to be straight with eachother. Here is a pic of my headtube with a 64° to 66° sleeve. I have a straight 65° as well but like the 64°.

Seems like it is worth a try but I would make sure all Sunday headtubes are the same length in all sizes. Nice work BTW.

 

[Rick205]

I think the real trick setup would be a sleeved and keyed head tube with integrated bearings. Of course, it would take a frame manufacturer to design it into the frame.

My lapierre, the scott above, commencal and the new orange all have adjustable head angles in that form.

IMHO you need to angle the bearing inside the cup itself as i belive DH kid has drawn, get a top and bottom cup and sort a way to allign them together, which wouldnt be that hard, thats the only way i would be convinced it would remain reliable.

- It would be a major pain in the behind to manufacture these for different frames though as all would need different angles cut depending on ht length.

 

[captainspauldin]

Wait, how the hell does this thing function properly if it is one cup with a wet thumb in the wind aligning feature????

It's two cups, he mentioned that in the first post.. commencal's system is somewhat similar, but it's one piece sleeve that fits into the headtube, I would be worried about getting the alignment perfect between the two cups with this design. it looks the offset is factored in so the bearing races/headset cups will be flush against the offset cups, i could see it being an issue if the headset cups/bearing races are wider than normal and interfere with the cups.. wow i think my heads spinning..

edit: just saw buckow's post, commencal is identical to that:

 

[-FLUIDRIDE-]

I think he has offset, and angled the bearing seat in the cup.
So essentially it is only the other bearing that is going to have alignment issues, or be out of axis 1 or 2 deg in relation to the steertube axis. But with it just being slightly out of axis I can see how it has lasted.
Think about all the people who've installed their 1.5 cups improperly- without facing the headtube, or getting the cups seated properly. and run it like that without any major issues. I'm sure there's a few.

 

[Transcend]

The Orange insert is the same as commencal's one piece. We have regular (no offset) sleeves and offset ( +1 / -1 deg) sleeves. No idea how the offset ones will work as by reversing them for an headtube angle change, you'd ideally need to reverse the cup angle as well, correct?

My head hurts.

 

[dw]

We've talked about this on RM before, I've built e.thirteen cups for pros with angled races in the past. I think someone dug up the post higher up in the thread here. You need to angle the bearings (both of them) and the cups will only work with one length head tube. An angle changing cup that works on a 5" head tube will bind with a 4.5" head tube. Jut offsetting one bearing is a terrible idea and nobody should do that. ever.

 

[dw]

Are you making 1-1/8's and 1.5's? Is it a 2 degree offset from stock Geo (looks lie it is)? Cool idea. You may want to patient the idea before someone else does.

Moto guys have been doing this for 20 years, heck, I was inspired by Moto GP and I've been building angle changing cups since 2003. Nobody getting any patent on this design.

 

[LukeD]

Moto guys have been doing this for 20 years, heck, I was inspired by Moto GP and I've been building angle changing cups since 2003. Nobody getting any patent on this design.

and how can a native boston guy get this for his sunday? i'll trade ya a case of beer for a computer drawing, file...something to give to the machine shop next door to me