Anyone here got any experience with the new Charger 2.1 damper? Was the RC2 Charger 2 bad or something? They released the 2.1 one year later which is pretty quick so I'm wondering if there were issues with the first gen 2s or something. I'm running a Lyrik RCT at the moment and considering a new fork so I can use my current fork on a second bike build.
Charger 2.1 damper
- Thread starter toodles
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I’ve seen a couple of online comments about not being happy with how the 2.0 handles large impacts, however I haven’t had an issue with my two ‘19 Lyriks, and the comments I’ve seen are super vague about what they mean exactly.
I have heard from people in the business of suspension tuning that the 2.0 is worse than the 1.0 which was not that great... FWIW
all of them are nevertheless easily upgradable with kits from Push, Novyparts or whoever tunes suspension near you
all of them are nevertheless easily upgradable with kits from Push, Novyparts or whoever tunes suspension near you
RockShox Unveils 2020 Suspension Lineup, Charger 2.1 Damper and the MegNeg
Get the inside line on the RockShox Signature Series, a damper update that makes a difference, and a new way to fine-tune your RockShox air shock.
www.vitalmtb.com
There is a thread on emptybeer about it. Have fun...
charger 2 damper modifications - Page 2- Mtbr.com
Originally Posted by One Pivot The spring is an issue too, but that comes back to my comment about comfort being pawned off as dead freestroke. Theres
forums.mtbr.com
That's a fairly detailed list of all that is wrong with 2.0.RockShox Unveils 2020 Suspension Lineup, Charger 2.1 Damper and the MegNeg
Get the inside line on the RockShox Signature Series, a damper update that makes a difference, and a new way to fine-tune your RockShox air shock.
Charger 2.1 Features
- Less high-speed compression - A redesigned shim stack helps limit the impact of high-speed hits and harsh braking bumps, equating to more control and less fatigue.
- More low-speed compression - A different needle shape allows the fork to ride higher without added harshness. This adds more control to fork movement and reduces potential diving.
- New piston wearband - Better oil flow management through the piston provides better damping control. In the previous version a leak path existed at the rebound piston, though it would only occur during occasional side-loading of the damper during aggressive riding.
- New rebound piston - It features a new rebound needle profile and flow path changes to allow for more high-speed flow but more low-speed control.
- New SKF rebound shaft seal - This decreases friction by 30% at the rebound shaft.
I have the HC97 from Push installed in a Lyrik (Charger 2 damper) and it's amazing.
And rest assured, if it really is fixed, it won't be long before RS fucks it all up again to start the cycle over (IE: Mission Control Speedstack).That's a fairly detailed list of all that is wrong with 2.0.
Charger 2.1 Features
- Less high-speed compression - A redesigned shim stack helps limit the impact of high-speed hits and harsh braking bumps, equating to more control and less fatigue.
- More low-speed compression - A different needle shape allows the fork to ride higher without added harshness. This adds more control to fork movement and reduces potential diving.
- New piston wearband - Better oil flow management through the piston provides better damping control. In the previous version a leak path existed at the rebound piston, though it would only occur during occasional side-loading of the damper during aggressive riding.
- New rebound piston - It features a new rebound needle profile and flow path changes to allow for more high-speed flow but more low-speed control.
- New SKF rebound shaft seal - This decreases friction by 30% at the rebound shaft.
Thread necro.
I have a 2014 A1 non-boost 27.5 charger 1 in my 150mm Pike, air spring is B1 Debonair.
Do I perform a full rebuild, ~$45 and an hour or so of faffing around? (I've done total rebuilds including replacing bladder before)
Or do I "upgrade" to a 2.1 damper for ~$225?
With a new bike being unlikely this year due to there not being anything to buy, I'm tempted to try and wring out all I can from my existing bike if it's worthwhile.
I have a 2014 A1 non-boost 27.5 charger 1 in my 150mm Pike, air spring is B1 Debonair.
Do I perform a full rebuild, ~$45 and an hour or so of faffing around? (I've done total rebuilds including replacing bladder before)
Or do I "upgrade" to a 2.1 damper for ~$225?
With a new bike being unlikely this year due to there not being anything to buy, I'm tempted to try and wring out all I can from my existing bike if it's worthwhile.
Does the Push hc97 fits the older chargers? If yes, that could be an option to consider
I got a Lyrik RC2 on my new bike and to be honest I don't think the damping is as good as the grip 2 or Fox RC2 dampers I had previously. I can't seem to get the same level of support from this one without bringing on too much harshness.
Don't get me wrong, it's not a bad damper, but I have to run it pretty much open to avoid hand pain which was not the case on the fox units.
It fits the charger 2 or 2.1, not the original one.
Rockshox on average seem to have more free flow in their dampers, opting for the plushness before support. But because of the improvements in modern air springs it seems to work out pretty well.
Some people say that the Charger1 was the easier tunable option, as long as you are proficient with rearranging the shim stacks.
I think that the preloaded rebound stack was unnecessary, and the compression piston needs a pretty stiff stack, but in that regard, the preload might me reduced as well, or exchanged for some wider clamping shims to counteract the port size.
Some people say that the Charger1 was the easier tunable option, as long as you are proficient with rearranging the shim stacks.
I think that the preloaded rebound stack was unnecessary, and the compression piston needs a pretty stiff stack, but in that regard, the preload might me reduced as well, or exchanged for some wider clamping shims to counteract the port size.
RC2 version isn't available for the older Pike and as mentioned above the HC97 fits on v2 and above.
Shim tuning is going beyond the level of faffing I want to bother with, I'm not a suspension guru. More a set and hope it's in the ballpark.
Shim tuning is going beyond the level of faffing I want to bother with, I'm not a suspension guru. More a set and hope it's in the ballpark.
Shim tuning isn't gonna help much: the flow ports are way too big so that the flow area is huge from when the shims start to lift which doesn't give much support...
Avy might do something for you. 500usd might be a little itchy... I suppose that you are based in the US by the way
Avy might do something for you. 500usd might be a little itchy... I suppose that you are based in the US by the way
I have a 2016 Pike. Has a Luftkappe air spring, with no spacers. Last fall I replaced the damper cartridge to the 2.1 RC. I run 20% sag, and the LSC fully open. At first, I noticed a bit more plushness early in the travel at low and medium speed, but not a night and day difference. When speeds picked up it was somewhat more composed, more than marginal, but again, not a vast difference. I still don't get full travel (I'm consistently leaving almost 2" of travel on the o-ring). But I think that's down to the air spring. I weigh 217lbs, and ride a little above average speed going downhill (maybe well above average now with the influx of new Covid-riders) on east coast rox.
IMO, I'd stick with the rebuild and save the coin for a new fork down the road. (that could be tainted by the creaking in my CSU getting worse by the day though)
IMO, I'd stick with the rebuild and save the coin for a new fork down the road. (that could be tainted by the creaking in my CSU getting worse by the day though)
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I've had 4 of the current gen of RS forks - two 2019 Lyrik RC2s, a 2020 Boxxer that started as a Select and now has a 2.1 damper, and a 2021 Lyrik Ultimate (2.1) with a B1 air spring. Besides the stock dampers I've also run a HC97 in all the Lyriks.
- 2.1 vs 2.0: didn't notice much of a difference. The HC97 has a lot more support.
- The two 2019 Lyriks and the 2020 Boxxer felt/feel great from a stiction perspective. The 2021 Lyrik feels more sticky in comparison. Not sure if anything changed or if it's luck of the draw. There's enough of it that it made the support from the HC97 to be too much at times.
- 2.1 vs 2.0: didn't notice much of a difference. The HC97 has a lot more support.
- The two 2019 Lyriks and the 2020 Boxxer felt/feel great from a stiction perspective. The 2021 Lyrik feels more sticky in comparison. Not sure if anything changed or if it's luck of the draw. There's enough of it that it made the support from the HC97 to be too much at times.
try burping that fork
@slyfink
This!
If it doesn't work, you can change the Luftkappe for a B1 air spring. You will loose a little bit of volume on the negative spring but will gain on the positive.
It should feel like removing almost 2 tokens
Said eff-it and ordered the 2.1 RCT3 damper which was the only version for the non-boost A1 fork.
I've heard people mentioning the large port area, but i just dont understand why a larger clamping shim cannot solve this issue. It should limit the exposed flow area right?
Intuitively it would create a compression damping curve like the 2 examples at the bottom of the page
since the flow area when the shims starts to lift is as big as with a smaller clamping shim but then when the shaft velocity increase, the flow would be restricted by the large clamping shim.
And you'd think the bottom 2 graphs would be good, but nah, most of your trail chatter happens in that steep part where the damper is saying FU we're not moving. IMO top right is what you want, tune LSC to find the balance of plushness vs support when turning and pumping and turn the HSC to where you dont bottom too hard and also still have control when doing big hits.
Also tangentially related, are the rebound and compression dampers separate on charger style dampers like they are on motion control? Like can you remove the compression damping assembly, replace it with something completely different like motion control and still have the rebound assembly from the charger?
Also tangentially related, are the rebound and compression dampers separate on charger style dampers like they are on motion control? Like can you remove the compression damping assembly, replace it with something completely different like motion control and still have the rebound assembly from the charger?
I believe that's how the Push HC97 thingy works, replaces the Charger compression components, leaving the rebound parts alone.
sort of correct, although they recommend that you reshim your rebound stack once installed. Push will either supply you with rebound shims and directions, or reshim if they do the install in your damper.
I'm still thrilled with mine in my Lyrik. If this is a taste of what their fork will bring, they'll be awesome.
Hmm, interesting, the penske VDP seems similar to manitou's absolute+ piston.
I might just experiment with the two charger1 dampers on my xc bikes, but to be honest: it's fine as it is.
I know its a charger and off a 2019 boxxer but wtf
The nut came off piston and let it all fly free in damper. No damping and a shim got chewed up..
Apparently this happened a few times, whoever tightens em up may want to use some loctite and a dry surface to start
..
Just grabbed a version 2 from a buddy for cheap and decided to start reading this since I have no clue till now of these dampers
I'll see what I can do for a 2, figure its probably similar to the 2.1..few small changes
The nut came off piston and let it all fly free in damper. No damping and a shim got chewed up..
Apparently this happened a few times, whoever tightens em up may want to use some loctite and a dry surface to start
..
Just grabbed a version 2 from a buddy for cheap and decided to start reading this since I have no clue till now of these dampers
I'll see what I can do for a 2, figure its probably similar to the 2.1..few small changes
Attachments
Got the version 2 in the boxxer...
I keep hearing 2 to 2.1 isn't worth it. Anyo e got ibout on this.?????
got a smoking deal on my charger 2....so it'll be better than my blown charger and sooner than later ill replace the cart with a aftermarket...BUT till then...
What are the main issues with the charger 2 and is the upgrade to 2.1 worth it or is just modifyi g the stack thr best...maybe just beat the crap out of it and swap later...
I keep hearing 2 to 2.1 isn't worth it. Anyo e got ibout on this.?????
got a smoking deal on my charger 2....so it'll be better than my blown charger and sooner than later ill replace the cart with a aftermarket...BUT till then...
What are the main issues with the charger 2 and is the upgrade to 2.1 worth it or is just modifyi g the stack thr best...maybe just beat the crap out of it and swap later...
The 2 can be harsh off the top and feel ‘spikey’. I really noticed the issue over extended sections of trail chatter. I sent the damper in to have the shim stack tuned and got a few shims back when the damper was returned. I think HSC if I remember correctly. Feels better.
I'll have to look into shim stack or mods for it
..would love to see what they did to yours. I'll hunt around and try some.more options
Charger 2.1 RCT's fitted to mine and wife's 150mm Pike's today, they should get a good workout this next week. Hopefully using the prior settings from the OG Charger should be a good starting point.
I'd love to know how to keep the RCT3 large dial from rattling. It's the same on both mine and wife's newly fitted dampers.
There's an o-ring underneath it and the low speed compression dial stops it falling off. But there's nothing "pinning" it in place securely to stop it being able to rattle.
There's an o-ring underneath it and the low speed compression dial stops it falling off. But there's nothing "pinning" it in place securely to stop it being able to rattle.
Rebound adjuster on my 3 ride old Boxxer Ultimate seems to have broken away from the hex.
I was trying to record my settings and it just spins when I try to close the adjuster.
I'll have to see if Commencal will help on Monday.
edit:
Problem solved, magnet pulled the orphaned hex out of the foot nut and it just pushes back in to the adjuster.
I was trying to record my settings and it just spins when I try to close the adjuster.
I'll have to see if Commencal will help on Monday.
edit:
Problem solved, magnet pulled the orphaned hex out of the foot nut and it just pushes back in to the adjuster.
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A wrap or two of some plumbers/teflon/thread tape around the underside hexagonal bit fixed both mine.
You'll still have that little bit of rotational play anyhow (from the internals, not the cap interface) but it'll stay quiet.
Thanks, I'll take another look. A length of electrical tape over the top of the adjusters to the fork crown solved it currently.
A slightly fatter o-ring (or another one underneath) would probably do it as well, just didn't have anything that would fit.
Or just remove it if you're not turning the knobs all the time.
All whole 25g in total if you dare to get rid of the rebound knobs and air cap as well.
All whole 25g in total if you dare to get rid of the rebound knobs and air cap as well.
Anyone played with the HSC stack on a 2.1?
Seems like the main differences between 2.0 and 2.1 is that 2.1 has an improved LSC needle/port which actually blocks flow, and that the HSC stack is very soft.
Stock 2.1 HSC is 18-16-14-8mm clamp.
My damper is from a select+, so only LSC adjustment.
Thoughts on making the stack more of a pyramid like 18-16-15-14-12-8mm clamp
or
Making the shim clamp larger like 18-16-14-13-12mm clamp?
I also have a softer spring for the mid valve/check valve that I am throwing in based on my ultra scientific analysis of midvalve contributing to LSC when playing with the damper in my hands.
Fork is a Lyric running 170mm with C1 air spring.
Seems like the main differences between 2.0 and 2.1 is that 2.1 has an improved LSC needle/port which actually blocks flow, and that the HSC stack is very soft.
Stock 2.1 HSC is 18-16-14-8mm clamp.
My damper is from a select+, so only LSC adjustment.
Thoughts on making the stack more of a pyramid like 18-16-15-14-12-8mm clamp
or
Making the shim clamp larger like 18-16-14-13-12mm clamp?
I also have a softer spring for the mid valve/check valve that I am throwing in based on my ultra scientific analysis of midvalve contributing to LSC when playing with the damper in my hands.
Fork is a Lyric running 170mm with C1 air spring.
Looked at ReStackor a bit, just the demo so can't put the real shim stack in there, and came up with the stack below;
Comp = 18X.1, 18X.1, 13X.15, 16X.1, 16X.1, 15X.2, 13X.15, 8X.4 (clamp)
Compared to the stock 18X.1, 16X.1, 14X.1, 8X.4 clamp, it should be pretty different.
Comp = 18X.1, 18X.1, 13X.15, 16X.1, 16X.1, 15X.2, 13X.15, 8X.4 (clamp)
Compared to the stock 18X.1, 16X.1, 14X.1, 8X.4 clamp, it should be pretty different.