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Cheap brake dillema m6000 vs m7000

djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
1,847
468
Northern California
Having the clamps fail when I'm braking hard sounds like a minor issue.
The clamps don't fail. There's a section that develops a hairline crack but there's other material around it, the levers don't move at all. They ship them with the alloy ones now, previously they would just send you another set of clamps if you emailed them.
 

Jm_

Turbo Monkey
Jan 14, 2002
9,028
1,452
AK
Are those old 755's? People used to love those things.
Yes. Notice how right now, XT has gone back to 4 pistons. What is the next big thing the lizards have planned for us? DUAL PISTONS! You read it hear first.
 

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,786
17
Japan
I still have a pair, still run rock solid.. I also changed out a leaky 595 caliper for a 6000 on another bike. Feels great, no problems and cheap as chips so will probably change out the other caliper as well
Edit- I thought Jm was the op
 
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norbar

Turbo Monkey
Jun 7, 2007
9,496
314
Warsaw :/
I still have a pair, still run rock solid.. I also changed out a leaky 595 caliper for a 6000 on another bike. Feels great, no problems and cheap as chips so will probably change out the other caliper as well
Edit- I thought Jm was the op
Now find a guy that sells them. Though I think they might be overkill for a trailbike
 

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
21,993
1,680
In my pants
What doesn't have problems then?
It's not that they have problems, it's that they have an inherent design flaw (which inevitably guarantees them) and that the specific kind of problem means that specifically in the sketchiest situations, you get no braking. With no warning.

That's worse than most.
 

norbar

Turbo Monkey
Jun 7, 2007
9,496
314
Warsaw :/
It's not that they have problems, it's that they have an inherent design flaw (which inevitably guarantees them) and that the specific kind of problem means that specifically in the sketchiest situations, you get no braking. With no warning.

That's worse than most.
When did it start? I have old 4 pot saints and they have no problems. Ive encountered what you mention in my old formula oro's but nowhere else.
 

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
21,993
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When did it start? I have old 4 pot saints and they have no problems. Ive encountered what you mention in my old formula oro's but nowhere else.
Anywhere from within 6 months to 2 years. Just to be clear I'm not talking about one pair of brakes here. I'm talking around 12 pairs. Between dirtjumper, trail bike(s) and dh bike over the last 6 years, I've warranteed XTs SLX and Saints, and bled them all to death.

They all do it, some later than others. You get to a point where bleeding does nothing.
 
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Da Peach

Outwitted by a rodent
Jul 2, 2002
12,519
1,781
North Van
XTRs too. The 975s and the 9000s.

A big source of my disillusionment with the "industry". They were supposed to be so good...

That, and creaky CSUs.

And "two weeks".
 

norbar

Turbo Monkey
Jun 7, 2007
9,496
314
Warsaw :/
Anywhere from within 6 months to 2 years. Just to be clear I'm not talking about one pair of brakes here. I'm talking around 12 pairs. Between dirtjumper, trail bike(s) and dh bike over the last 6 years, I've warranteed XTs SLX and Saints, and bled them all to death.

They all do it, some later than others. You get to a point where bleeding does nothing.
So this means mostly newer models? Some seal dissolving? What could be the cause?
 

norbar

Turbo Monkey
Jun 7, 2007
9,496
314
Warsaw :/
XTRs too. The 975s and the 9000s.

A big source of my disillusionment with the "industry". They were supposed to be so good...

That, and creaky CSUs.

And "two weeks".
The industry has always been hit or miss. I'm just confused who makes reliable brakes now. I know that hopes get good reviews now but the price on them is a bit steep
 

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
21,993
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So this means mostly newer models? Some seal dissolving? What could be the cause?
I don't even know where to begin. I guess I was assuming you'd seen all the discussion on these things here.

Yes newer ones, since the ceramic pistons.



Problem 1: Plastic master cylinders that break down. I think udi was saying he thinks the tolerances lose their capacity to seal eventually, so that if there's any air whatsoever, at some point it's going to find its way around the plunger and allow an 'air pull' where no fluid, or not enough fluid gets pushed through the tapered part of the design. It makes sense. This is the terrifying no brake phenomenon. Exacerbated by hard compressions, g-outs or a combination of the bike leaned at the right angle to get the air void in the right place.

Problem 2: Leaky seals around the pistons. Almost everyone who's had a pair of shimano brakes long enough eventually experiences this. If your bike sits for a few days or a week, every time you grab it to ride it's like you've got a burn in the brake pads again. That's fluid leaking onto the pads. As fluid leaks, air enters, see problem #1.



I've had virtually brand new brakes do it, and some pairs that work wonderfully for two years before the problem shows up. But literally every pair I've had (which includes lots of warranties) has done it eventually. Expecting brakes when you need them the most only to have the lever go to the bar with zero braking force is bullshit.
 
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Olly

Chimp
Oct 1, 2015
97
34
So this means mostly newer models? Some seal dissolving? What could be the cause?
It's pretty much anything with ceramic pistons (eventually they will leak), and/or anything with a servo wave lever (the insides wear out and they get sticky / stop returning).
 

norbar

Turbo Monkey
Jun 7, 2007
9,496
314
Warsaw :/
I've known of them leaking around the pistons and I've heard of master cylinders being problematic but I've always assumed those were typical brake problems so - do a full rebuild every 2-3 years or see a dentist. Strangely what you are describing is the same shit (the air problem) that happened to my formula oros which had me jumping over the bars at full speed since the other option was a very steep 50+m drop (bike was fine, got laid down in the corner).

Since new Maguras make every service guy I know run for the hills and avids are avids is it buy expensive brakes or gtfo?
 

Olly

Chimp
Oct 1, 2015
97
34
If the bible of Ridemonkey is anything to go by, Trickstuff's Direttissima are only brakes which aren't shit. They're also super expensive and ridiculously hard to buy (according to their site, "can be shipped in about 9 months").

Hopes are apparently reliable, but not particularly powerful (if you're used to Shimano). Same for TRPs. Formula Cura 2s are really good, but they can rub horribly. Cura 4s are powerful, but vague. Maguras are good, but according to your friends the cheap ones break more than they brake, and the ergonomics can be... odd. Shimano's are usually amazing until they suddenly aren't anymore. Hayes most recent effort is apparently really good, but they did something weird with the lever (or so I read on here). Sram are... I have no idea actually, I haven't trusted them since the Avid Elixir days.

In answer to your original question, I'd probably go for the M6000. But maybe I'm stupid.
 

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
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I've known of them leaking around the pistons and I've heard of master cylinders being problematic but I've always assumed those were typical brake problems so - do a full rebuild every 2-3 years or see a dentist.
Exactly. Rebuilding isn't an option because they don't sell the parts.

So say hello to your cheap brakes, and then hello to your dentist. Which is how we started this conversation :D
 

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
21,993
1,680
In my pants
Olly: all valid

My curas don't rub. And at least so far, they work 100% of the time. If that changes, I'm not shy, I'll bitch about those too.
 

Bike078

Monkey
Jan 11, 2018
322
152
What about the new codes? I got 2018 Code Rs secondhand and they are ok so far. Previous owner said he never got the sticky levers and it is always hot where I live (we live in the tropics).
 

toodles

Turbo Monkey
Aug 24, 2004
2,599
758
Australia
What about the new codes? I got 2018 Code Rs secondhand and they are ok so far. Previous owner said he never got the sticky levers and it is always hot where I live (we live in the tropics).
One of the bikes I tested recently had new Codes but I wasn't really blown away by their power. And thats compared to V4s which aren't crazy powerful either. Actually I've seen waaaaay too many Guide levers fail for me to recommend anything from SRAM for a long time.
 

Sandro

Turbo Monkey
Nov 12, 2006
1,987
804
The old world
No complaints with my Code RSCs after one year, it'll probably still end in heartbreak eventually. The break-in time was much longer than with Shimanos, but they are plenty powerful now with good modulation. I much prefer Shimano's lever shape however and am open to trying out a Shigura with Shimano levers and Magura calipers if when the Codes fail.
 

DaveW

Space Monkey
Jul 2, 2001
8,606
502
Karori, Poneke Te Ika-a-Maui
One of the bikes I tested recently had new Codes but I wasn't really blown away by their power. And thats compared to V4s which aren't crazy powerful either. Actually I've seen waaaaay too many Guide levers fail for me to recommend anything from SRAM for a long time.
Yep at my shop I warranty or rebuild 5 Sram brakes for every Shimano.
Also an RSC lever internals kit costs about the same as a whole new lever from Shimano
 

Bike078

Monkey
Jan 11, 2018
322
152
First time using SRAM brakes coming from shimano 2 pots and I thought the initial bite wasn't that powerful and then the power kicks in as you pull some more. I suppose that is the "direct link" on the code r as opposed to the rsc. Not really a fan of the longer lever but I'll get used to it. Brakes came with bikein pro organic pads on the front and A2Z semi-metallic pads in the rear. Haven't tested them in the wet.
 

Jm_

Turbo Monkey
Jan 14, 2002
9,028
1,452
AK
I've known of them leaking around the pistons and I've heard of master cylinders being problematic but I've always assumed those were typical brake problems so - do a full rebuild every 2-3 years or see a dentist. Strangely what you are describing is the same shit (the air problem) that happened to my formula oros which had me jumping over the bars at full speed since the other option was a very steep 50+m drop (bike was fine, got laid down in the corner).

Since new Maguras make every service guy I know run for the hills and avids are avids is it buy expensive brakes or gtfo?
Do a full rebuild with what? Shitmano won’t supply seals or rebuild kits. I give their reps shit at races, since they just expect you to “wait till failure”, which could be at a critical moment.
 

norbar

Turbo Monkey
Jun 7, 2007
9,496
314
Warsaw :/
It's not so bad, a complete set of MT5s and two SLX levers would cost 212€, a lot less than a set of Cura 4s for instance (295€).
For that price I can hunt for used hopes.


Also from the topic it seems like brakes have gotten worse since the last time I was in the market for them and the answer is to buy something old.
 

Sandro

Turbo Monkey
Nov 12, 2006
1,987
804
The old world
For that price I can hunt for used hopes.


Also from the topic it seems like brakes have gotten worse since the last time I was in the market for them and the answer is to buy something old.
That was more about my personal brake replacement situation than your predicament, a complete set of MT5s for 147€ is still not bad though. But if you are going to sell what sounds like more of an everyday than a downhill bike, why not just get SLXs or Deores and let someone else's dentist deal with the aftermath?
 

norbar

Turbo Monkey
Jun 7, 2007
9,496
314
Warsaw :/
That was more about my personal brake replacement situation than your predicament, a complete set of MT5s for 147€ is still not bad though. But if you are going to sell what sounds like more of an everyday than a downhill bike, why not just get SLXs or Deores and let someone else's dentist deal with the aftermath?
Yeah that's the plan. I will ride it for 3 months then sell the bike and get something bigger/newer. So i'm looking at Deores but it's good to read about brakes since I'm finally not dirt poor and will be updating my stable but at least now I know the best way for big bikes is just getting a ton of Hope V2's, Shimano M810s and not buy anything new.