The bikes I posted range from 4000-5000$ in the posted spec but you can get the lowest spec canyon for under 2500$ and the frame of the propain goes for 1700$. And while canyon might be one of the biggest direct sellers companies like propain or yt are not much different than tranition if you don't consider that they cut out the middle man: rider owned, inhouse frame design and asia production. Also these bikes get ridden and reviewd A LOT in europe so it's not like you have to buy the cat in the bag. And with the free trade union coming there might be a cance that these companies get an us-base.So while I think the above bikes seem like legitimate options (using my magic interwebz-eye that is basically an x-ray FEA system combined with a kinematics algorithm), I'm not sure they're orders of magnitude less than say a complete 450. In fact, if I used the current euro to dollar conversion correctly, the Propain is actually more expensive than the 450 - although I didn't get too far into the spec options. The Canyon however does appear to be less by ~$600, but I'm not sure if that includes shipping to the Murika. I couldn't make out the bottom one's name with my Benjiman Franklin edition iPhone 3, so no comparison there. And speaking as a Murikin Freedumber, I'm not sure about dealing with a small outfit out of Yurp vs. someone on this side of the pond who always returns my emails and answers the phone.