[sanjuro]

Cheney backs Limbaugh over Powell on GOP future

WASHINGTON – Dick Cheney made clear Sunday he'd rather follow firebrand broadcaster Rush Limbaugh than former Joint Chiefs chairman Colin Powell into political battle over the future of the Republican Party.

Even as Cheney embraced efforts to expand the party by ex-Govs. Jeb Bush of Florida and Mitt Romney of Massachusetts and the House's No. 2 Republican, Virginia Rep. Eric Cantor, the former vice president appeared to write his one-time colleague Powell out of the GOP.

Asked about recent verbal broadsides between Limbaugh and Powell, Cheney said, "If I had to choose in terms of being a Republican, I'd go with Rush Limbaugh. My take on it was Colin had already left the party. I didn't know he was still a Republican."

Powell, who was secretary of state under President George W. Bush and held the nation's top military post under President George H.W. Bush, endorsed Democrat Barack Obama for president last year. Nonetheless, since the election he has described himself as a Republican and a right-of-center conservative, though "not as right as others would like."

Cheney, citing Powell's backing of Obama over Republican nominee John McCain, said, "I assumed that that is some indication of his loyalty and his interests."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090510/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_cheney

As a Democrat, I think this is a great endorsement.

Considering there is 55 million registered Republicans, compared to 77 million for the Democrats out of 169 mil total registered), there are many undecidededs who lean to the Democratic side.

I think many of them listen to the measured tones of Powell vs the lunatic rants of Limbaugh.

But on a different note, I have no idea what Cheney is doing. He is not meeting with any Republican leaders as far as I know and his own President said, "Be Silent!".

I think Cheney does not realize that only the tiniest percentage of Americans want to hear from Cheney. I mean, if Cheney ran for any office besides Dogcatcher, who could he beat?

If there was an effective President in the last 8 years, he would have shut Cheney up in a second.

 

[JohnE]

Cheney=the personification of evil in our world today. One step up from Sadaam Hussein.

Powell is too smart to get back into politics. I hope.

 

[Silver]

Cheney=the personification of evil in our world today. One step up from Sadaam Hussein.

Powell is too smart to get back into politics. I hope.

Step up from Saddam Hussein? That's debateable...

Powell still shilled for Cheney when it really mattered, remember...

 

[JohnE]

Cheney is an ass, a power hungry ass. Plain and simple. He avoided serving his country until it was profitable and safe for him.

Powell made some mistakes, true. He is stil an American hero though. One who needs to stay away from all things political in order to ensure his legacy.

 

[Westy]

Cheny however said he would like to go hunting with Powell.

 

[X3pilot]

I think Cheney does not realize that only the tiniest percentage of Americans want to hear from Cheney. I mean, if Cheney ran for any office besides Dogcatcher, who could he beat?

Why do you hate dogcatchers?

 

[Silver]

Powell made some mistakes, true. He is stil an American hero though. One who needs to stay away from all things political in order to ensure his legacy.

Considering his career started with not looking too closely at the My Lai massacre, and then proceeded onto supervising the first beating of a 3 year old retarded kid by Mike Tyson, and then standing up in front of the UN with photos of mobile germ labs (remember those) to encourage another beating of the retard, I have to wonder what he's done good that counterbalances that.

Seriously, what makes him an American hero? Compared to Cheney? Sure. But compared to Cheney that guy in Florida who threw the baby out the window onto the freeway is an American hero...

 

[jimmydean]

Both Powell and Obama are black.

This is a man who knows his black people.

 

[JohnE]

Seriously, what makes him an American hero?

Gee, I dont know. Maybe something about his 35 years of service to the Army, followed by a career in public service. The biggest hiccup is his service to the worst POTUS in ever.

 

[Silver]

Gee, I dont know. Maybe something about his 35 years of service to the Army, followed by a career in public service. The biggest hiccup is his service to the worst POTUS in ever.

That's all it takes? I think we're tossing around the term "hero" rather loosely.

Doing your job for 35 years doesn't make someone a hero. My Dad's been a CPA for that long, and he didn't even have to whitewash a massacre. Does that make him a hero?

 

[reflux]

Does that make him a hero?

Yes, but only if your father has the love for the baby jesus.

 

[ohio]

Gee, I dont know. Maybe something about his 35 years of service to the Army, followed by a career in public service. The biggest hiccup is his service to the worst POTUS in ever.

Hero implies having helped or saved someone in a manner above and beyond your official obligations, and at a personal cost.

While I think Powell is well-intentioned, and intelligent, I also think his spine failed him too many times to earn the title of hero. His moral compass is pointing in the right direction but he spent a little too much time choosing to follow orders instead.

 

[jimmydean]

That's all it takes? I think we're tossing around the term "hero" rather loosely.

Doing your job for 35 years doesn't make someone a hero. My Dad's been a CPA for that long, and he didn't even have to whitewash a massacre. Does that make him a hero?

If your dad was the CPA for all of Desert Storm, or the CPA for the Joint Chiefs then yes. I would say the Powell did a bit more than "his job" during the course of his time in service. There are a great number of people who do 35 years in the military without even scratching the surface of what he accomplished in the same term.

 

[sanjuro]

Hero is a funny word. Is Sully Sullenberger a hero? Sure, considering as long he does nothing stupid the rest of his life.

What about Charles Lindbergh? As long you forget he supported the Nazi Party.

It is hard to say what about Powell as the Sec of State. Did he participate in the lies? Of course. But he quit his job and hasn't come back, and I wonder if this is a personal exile.

As for his military career, he hadn't done a Sullenberger, but he did his job well, and that has been applauded.

 

[Silver]

If your dad was the CPA for all of Desert Storm, or the CPA for the Joint Chiefs then yes. I would say the Powell did a bit more than "his job" during the course of his time in service. There are a great number of people who do 35 years in the military without even scratching the surface of what he accomplished in the same term.

So, a man who has supported his family, does a lot of charitable work in his community, and who has never been involved in trying to make the investigation of a massacre go away isn't a hero, but a guy who has been a large part of a global empire that enforces it's will by killing brown people (Vietnam, Iraq, Iraq) is automatically a hero, never mind the number of innocents that he has staining his hands red?

You should be careful with the definition: Your definition of a hero would make me think that Hermann Goering was one...

 

[drkenan]

I WANT to like Colin Powell but can't seem to shake one image...

 

[jimmydean]

So, a man who has supported his family, does a lot of charitable work in his community, and who has never been involved in trying to make the investigation of a massacre go away isn't a hero, but a guy who has been a large part of a global empire that enforces it's will by killing brown people (Vietnam, Iraq, Iraq) is automatically a hero, never mind the number of innocents that he has staining his hands red?

You should be careful with the definition: Your definition of a hero would make me think that Hermann Goering was one...

My bad.

 

[Silver]

My bad.

Look, my point is, simply, that being a member of the military, being a cop, being a firefighter, being a doctor, doesn't make you a hero in itself, no matter how the members of those organizations project their mythologies.

 

[jimmydean]

Look, my point is, simply, that being a member of the military, being a cop, being a firefighter, being a doctor, doesn't make you a hero in itself, no matter how the members of those organizations project their mythologies.

OK, so maybe hero is a stretch, but his military career is nothing short of spectacular and he was the only member of the Bush administration I held any respect for. I also respect him for quiting and refusing to ultimately tow the party line.

While he still considers himself a republican, he is also vocal about the direction of the party.

I will forever have zero respect for either Cheney or Rush, who have done nothing for society.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

...tossing around the term "hero" rather loosely...

Seems to be our national pastime - not every soldier or fireman is a hero.

 

[JohnE]

Hero is a subjective term. Let me re-state my intitial post. Colin Powell is one of my heroes. Does that make you happy, Ohio and Silver? because really, I do not care enough about either one of you to engage in a discussion of this sort.


And Silver, no one ever said anything about your father. I am glad he is a hero to you.

 

[sanjuro]

Colin Powell is one of my heroes too. Why? Because he came from the same area as I did.

 

[jimmydean]

Colin Powell is one of my heroes too. Why? Because he came from the same area as I did.

You were once a poor black child, too? Wow.

<edit> I don't think Powell was poor, it just sounded funny in my head that way.

 

[sanjuro]

You were once a poor black child, too? Wow.

<edit> I don't think Powell was poor, it just sounded funny in my head that way.

He was poor, unless his family liked slumming the Bronx.

 

[jimmydean]

He was poor, unless his family liked slumming the Bronx.

Well, he aint now. Have you seen what a retired 4 star with 35 years pulls down? Without disability pay, it works out to be roughly $15k a month.

 

[Silver]

And Silver, no one ever said anything about your father. I am glad he is a hero to you.

You couldn't have missed the point more.

But, since you're so far gone already, let me point out that I don't consider my father a hero. Of course, he also doesn't have more innocent blood on his hands than Pinochet...

 

[sanjuro]

Well, he aint now. Have you seen what a retired 4 star with 35 years pulls down? Without disability pay, it works out to be roughly $15k a month.

Chump change. His speaking fee is rumored to be $100,000 plus first class expenses for two to include a Lear 60 Jet.

Another reason why he's my hero. Negro gets paid.

 

[stevew]

Seems to be our national pastime - not every soldier or fireman is a hero.

does that go for president?

 

[DaveW]

does that go for president?

Well as far as bush goes.... Displaying stupidity on that level was pretty brave.

 

[chillindrdude]

democratic strategists must be losing their jobs, because Cheney and Limbaugh are doing it for them. They fail to see that for the "GOP" to survive, they must moderate their message. Most of the young folks i know are "moderates"...usually fiscally conservative and socially liberal. But of course, for the "purists" its all or nothing. Provided that democrats don't tax and spend this country into oblivion and don't fu*k up, all they may need is 2 successful election cycles to relegate the GOP to the SOP...Small 'Ole Party.

 

[X3pilot]

Hero? I don't know. But a brilliant military strategist and leader, yes.

Remember, he was the JCS Chairman during the first Gulf war. Remember that one? The one where we actually had a solid, verifiable reason for going, went with a clear stated objective and left when it was done? That one.

Who knows why he accepted the position of SoS in the first place and what Cheney had on him to make him go say what he did at the UN?

We do overuse hero these days, but it's a subjective term anyway, not a qualitative metric.

 

[stevew]

The one where we actually had a solid, verifiable reason for going, went with a clear stated objective and left when it was done? That one.

unfortunately......it wasn't finished, or we wouldn't have had to go back a second time.

 

[X3pilot]

ummmm, I don't know about that. I think our stated mission was to drive Iraqi forces out of Kuwait. Bush, Sr. was grilled repeatedly about why we didn't go on to Baghdad and finish it. Story was we weren't out to remove Saddam from power, just from Kuwait.

Powell was the one who pushed that agenda, of being a liberator of Kuwait, not a scorched earth force running over the desert. Schwartzie wanted to push on, but Powell had 41's ear. Made sense at the time. Guess with 20/20 hindsight...

 

[dante]

democratic strategists must be losing their jobs, because Cheney and Limbaugh are doing it for them. They fail to see that for the "GOP" to survive, they must moderate their message. Most of the young folks i know are "moderates"...usually fiscally conservative and socially liberal. But of course, for the "purists" its all or nothing. Provided that democrats don't tax and spend this country into oblivion and don't fu*k up, all they may need is 2 successful election cycles to relegate the GOP to the SOP...Small 'Ole Party.

That is also the viewpoint of almost all North Eastern Republicans (or ex-Republicans in the case of Specter). Whitman, Pataki, Giuliani, Romney (until he had his revelation), Snowe, D'Amato, Collins, Ridge, etc. By basically saying "get out RINO" the Republicans have effectively eliminated any moderates that were once in their "big tent party" and in doing so are turning off the young people as well. I said it before and I'll say it again, there were no social issues (other than reducing welfare rolls) in the Contract With America, and there was no call for lower taxes for the rich (or anyone else for that matter). It was ending corruption, openness, and balancing the budget (hmmm, where have I heard those themes before?).

Oh well, maybe a couple more years in "time out" will moderate the party...

 

[sanjuro]

That is also the viewpoint of almost all North Eastern Republicans (or ex-Republicans in the case of Specter). Whitman, Pataki, Giuliani, Romney (until he had his revelation), Snowe, D'Amato, Collins, Ridge, etc. By basically saying "get out RINO" the Republicans have effectively eliminated any moderates that were once in their "big tent party" and in doing so are turning off the young people as well. I said it before and I'll say it again, there were no social issues (other than reducing welfare rolls) in the Contract With America, and there was no call for lower taxes for the rich (or anyone else for that matter). It was ending corruption, openness, and balancing the budget (hmmm, where have I heard those themes before?).

Oh well, maybe a couple more years in "time out" will moderate the party...

Just like Clinton, in the 90's both the Dems and Reps enjoyed the dot.com boom. Makes anyone seem like a genius.

You might comment about Reagan, who was successful in leading the country out of a recession (with a split Congress).

I think the success of the Republican party is totally dependent on Obama. I have heard only NO from those guys, and if Obama and the Dems are successful, the Repubs are going to shrink.

 

[dante]

Just like Clinton, in the 90's both the Dems and Reps enjoyed the dot.com boom. Makes anyone seem like a genius.

You might comment about Reagan, who was successful in leading the country out of a recession (with a split Congress).

I think the success of the Republican party is totally dependent on Obama. I have heard only NO from those guys, and if Obama and the Dems are successful, the Repubs are going to shrink.

don't forget, the CwA was 1994, well before the .com boom. I'm just saying that even after the Clinton tax hike in the beginning of his presidency, the Republicans didn't come out immediately with "TAX CUTS TAX CUTS TAX CUTS!!!! Oh, and social issues like abortion, gay marriage, etc." They put forth a moderate, fiscally sound platform and it got them quite far. So far that's been the opposite of what's been spouted by the Right this go around.

 

[JohnE]

You couldn't have missed the point more.

But, since you're so far gone already, let me point out that I don't consider my father a hero. Of course, he also doesn't have more innocent blood on his hands than Pinochet...

Whatever. Keep up you righteous disregard for all opinions other than your own, and your hatred of anything American. Need I point out that the actions of men like Powell secure your right to be a douchnozzle?

So who are your heroes anyway, Mr Always Intheright?

 

[Silver]

Whatever. Keep up you righteous disregard for all opinions other than your own, and your hatred of anything American. Need I point out that the actions of men like Powell secure your right to be a douchnozzle?

So who are your heroes anyway, Mr Always Intheright?

Whatever? If we are in an intellectual baseball field, and you were on the mound pitching, your threw your reply into outer space and it's currently orbiting among Saturn's moons.

You can afford to be stupid though, because you don't need to think. Someone tells you to put a bomb on an airplane to drop on a house full of kids, you do it. Because you're defending free speech. Yeah.

Heroes? I don't know...I don't really have heroes. I'm not an adolescent comic book reader who needs to believe that Spiderman really exists. Democritus, maybe?

 

[kidwoo]

Keep up you righteous disregard for all opinions other than your own, and your hatred of anything American. Need I point out that the actions of men like Powell secure your right to be a douchnozzle?

Put up a picture of an eagle.


It would really drive home the meaning of this post.


So what you're saying is had north vietnam won, Iraq stayed in kuwait, and if saddam were still calling the shots in Iraq, silver would live in a country where free speech was prohibited. Ok. That makes sense.

 

[stevew]

maybe powell is just like this ignorant cunt?