[MMike]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2001767328_space16.html

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/10/16/china_space031016

Well they did it. That means they definitely have the technology to send large things, large distances, at high rates of speed. Is anyone worried?

 

[MMike]

Hmmm... and now that I think about it, I'm curious how much (if any) of their technology was borrowed....Did they reverse engineer stuff they've picked up from Russia and the US, or did they come up with their own stuff?

Hell, do they buy standard fasteners and hardware, (MS, NAS BAC etc...), or do they make their own?

 

[LordOpie]

yes, it's huge. The ramifications are diverse and many. Here's a few:

1. One of China's biggest obstacles to being the world power was tech inferiority... less of an issue now, but I suspect they're still, oh, 35 yrs behind

2. A successful joint mission to explore is more likely if China joins up.

3. Perhaps it forces China to start seeing the bigger picture of humanity. I figured if they stayed egocentric and xenophobic, they'd just panic and strike out as the world opened up. Oh, ok, I'm exaggerating, but having a citizen see the planet from space does make the world smaller... don'tcha think?

I say, "China, welcome to tomorrow. Now, where's my chicken and rice? And bring me a fork this time!"

 

[Spud]

I like Bob Park's take on this!

=====================

WHAT'S NEW Robert L. Park Friday, 17 Oct 03 Washington, DC

1. SPACE RACE: SHENZHOU-5 VERSUS MERCURY-5. On Wednesday, China
successfully launched the Shenzhou-5 space capsule into orbit
with taikonaut Yang Liwei on board and returned him safely to
Earth after 14 orbits. The first American to reach orbit, John
Glenn, circled Earth a mere three times in the Mercury-5 capsule
- 3 years before Yang was born. And this is only the beginning;
China hopes eventually to construct a permanent base on the moon.
Americans should welcome China's new direction. Sending humans
into space offers no military, economic, or scientific advantage;
rather it's a symbolic demonstration that China has arrived as an
economic power and can now afford to waste vast sums of money.
Perhaps the U.S. could help by offering China complete plans for
the space shuttle. This would serve the cause of world peace by
diverting China's resources from more dangerous adventures.

THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND and THE AMERICAN PHYSICAL SOCIETY.
Opinions are the author's and are not necessarily shared by the
University or the American Physical Society, but they should be.

 

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by Spud
I like Bob Park's take on this!

that's great!

 

[ummbikes]

I heard who really need to worry about is a united Europe lead by Germany.

 

[ohio]

Originally posted by LordOpie
yes, it's huge. The ramifications are diverse and many. Here's a few:

1. One of China's biggest obstacles to being the world power was tech inferiority... less of an issue now, but I suspect they're still, oh, 35 yrs behind

Try about 5 years, and quickly gaining. In some fields they've already superceded us. China is home to the newest and highest tech semi-conductor fabs in the world. On the structural side, their bicycle industry will blow taiwan's (which is already far ahead of ours) out of the water in the next 10 years. Those skills and resources are easily transferred to defense and automotive manufacture.

India is doing the same thing on an intellectual front, and if China ever takes notes from them, we'll be in a ****load of trouble.

 

[Silver]

To add to Ohio's post, sure, on the basis of space travel they appear to be 35 years behind.

However, it's become a lot easier to catch up in those 35 years. Technological change has really done a number on how long it takes to get some really complex stuff done.

It's an interesting time to be alive.

 

[MMike]

Along those lines too, if you've flown on a 737 lately, the tail fin was built in China and shipped to WA. They build LOTS of aeropsace stuff. They ain't no 35 years behind...

 

[LordOpie]

hey! They are ~35 yrs behind! When are they gonna put a man on the moon, huh?!

 

[MMike]

Originally posted by Silver
To add to Ohio's post, sure, on the basis of space travel they appear to be 35 years behind.

However, it's become a lot easier to catch up in those 35 years. Technological change has really done a number on how long it takes to get some really complex stuff done.

It's an interesting time to be alive.

Indeed.....sort of like the Aribus/Boeing thing. Airbus had the advantage of looking a existing things done by Boeing. much less trial and error req'd.

But yeah....don't sell the Chinese short... I'd be willing to wager they are capable of big things....

The world today seems absolutely crackers,
With nuclear bombs to blow us all sky high.
There's fools and idiots sitting on the trigger.
It's depressing and it's senseless, and that's why...
I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
They only come up to your knees,
Yet they're always friendly, and they're ready to please.

I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
There's nine hundred million of them in the world today.
You'd better learn to like them; that's what I say.

I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
They come from a long way overseas,
But they're cute and they're cuddly, and they're ready to please.

I like Chinese food.
The waiters never are rude.
Think of the many things they've done to impress.
There's Maoism, Taoism, I Ching, and Chess.

So I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
I like their tiny little trees,
Their Zen, their ping-pong, their yin, and yang-ese.

I like Chinese thought,
The wisdom that Confucious taught.
If Darwin is anything to shout about,
The Chinese will survive us all without any doubt.

So, I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
They only come up to your knees,
Yet they're wise and they're witty, and they're ready to please.

All together.

[verse in Chinese]
Wo ai zhongguo ren. (I like Chinese.)
Wo ai zhongguo ren. (I like Chinese.)
Wo ai zhongguo ren. (I like Chinese.)
Ni hao ma; ni hao ma; ni hao ma; zaijien! (How are you; how are you; how are you; goodbye!)

I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
Their food is guaranteed to please,
A fourteen, a seven, a nine, and lychees.

I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
I like their tiny little trees,
Their Zen, their ping-pong, their yin, and yang-ese.

I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
They only come up to your knees...

 

[mrbigisbudgood]

If we keep shipping products to be manufactured in China and keep boosting the Chinese economy while cutting American jobs, they may just Tibet our ass. Why? Because they can.

 

[MMike]

Originally posted by mrbigisbudgood
If we keep shipping products to be manufactured in China and keep boosting the Chinese economy while cutting American jobs, they may just Tibet our ass. Why? Because they can.

Then (north) Americans had better stop pricing themselves out of contention...*cough* unions *cough*...

 

[Westy]

Originally posted by mrbigisbudgood
If we keep shipping products to be manufactured in China and keep boosting the Chinese economy while cutting American jobs, they may just Tibet our ass. Why? Because they can.

We send jobs and money to china, they send us cheap stuff and air pollution. China has one of the worst humanitarian records and we give them most favored trade nation status while we don't allow US companies to sell crap to Cuba because they are communist.

Other than short sighted greed, I really don't understand our relationship with China.

 

[Westy]

Originally posted by MMike
Then (north) Americans had better stop pricing themselves out of contention...*cough* unions *cough*...

Unions are just a very small part of the equation. High standard of living has more to do with it. If you and a few hundred other people were willing to work for $10k a year with no health benefits you could easily start a company that could be competetive worldwide.

 

[fluff]

Originally posted by ummbikes
I heard who really need to worry about is a united Europe lead by Germany.

You don't need to worry about that. It's not gonna happen any time soon. Europe is becoming more divided than united at present. Trust me, I'm one of them..

 

[ohio]

Originally posted by Westy
We send jobs and money to china, they send us cheap stuff and air pollution.

You're right, we should've signed the Kyoto protocol, and leveraged that against the Chinese.

AND we should drop the embargo with Cuba (at this point though, we might as well just wait for Fidel to croak).

 

[ummbikes]

Originally posted by fluff
You don't need to worry about that. It's not gonna happen any time soon. Europe is becoming more divided than united at present. Trust me, I'm one of them..

That plays into the hands of the United States nicely. We need you Europeans to stay moderately powerful and complient. United you would be more powerful than the United States.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by ummbikes
That plays into the hands of the United States nicely. We need you Europeans to stay moderately powerful and complient. United you would be more powerful than the United States.

not really.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

Originally posted by LordOpie

3. Perhaps it forces China to start seeing the bigger picture of humanity. I figured if they stayed egocentric and xenophobic, they'd just panic and strike out as the world opened up. Oh, ok, I'm exaggerating, but having a citizen see the planet from space does make the world smaller... don'tcha think?

the bigger picture of humanity????
was this actually written by an american???????

i´ve never thought of china as egocentric and xenophobic. and panic and strike out as the world opened up???.

hmm, those seem to fit so much better the characteristics of another country i know.......

well, at least china doesnt have a lewinsky affaire. (not that we are certain though)

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

Originally posted by Westy
We send jobs and money to china, they send us cheap stuff and air pollution. China has one of the worst humanitarian records and we give them most favored trade nation status while we don't allow US companies to sell crap to Cuba because they are communist.

Other than short sighted greed, I really don't understand our relationship with China.

hmm, well the biggest pollutant is not china, or india or russia. is the US, per capita. just think of all the nuclear tests, atmospherical and not. and now think of who is and has been the biggest polutant of the world. and the cars, and blablablabla.....

well, if u were not importing cheap chinese stuff (which is cheap because cheap labor), then u´d have to manufacture it here. if u mfg here, then the same product would be way more expensive (more expensive labor). since its more expensive, less people would buy it, and less would be required, thus, less workers would be needed, actually raising unemployement and shrinking the US economy,

one of the biggest reason, the average US consumer buy power is so huge (compared to the rest of the world) its the price of us labor compared to the rest of the world. its because of this disbalance, that u can get 400 hours worth of labor from china, with your wage of only 40 hours a week.

if u were to manufacture here, then your 40 hours worth of wage, would only buy 40 hours worth of wage of another american. and your buy-power would be quite limited.

the us labor is more efficient doing something, and the chinese is more efficient doing others. if the US was to manufature somethin china is more efficiente (economy-wise), then it would actually be throwing money away.

think about this. u are a lawyer, and your time is worth 500 bucks an hour. u hire a maid for 7 bucks and hour.
of course u can clean, but its more efficiente to pay the maid 7 bucks an hour to do it, than stop doing your 500 bucks an hour job (which is what u are more efficient at), or resting (us weekends and holidays) and start doing chores that are only worth 7 bucks an hour and almost anybody can make.
in fact it would be stupid.

why does 400hours worth of chinese labor is only worth 40hours worth of us labor??, well, it used to be its because those 40 hours of use labor could produce something 400 hours of chinese labor could not. after this, i am starting to wonder about this argument too.


so its a i-hate-you-but-i-need-you relationship. many people probbaly hate the china gvmt, but fortunately or unfortunately, the US NEEDS china to subsist, whether or not some ultra nationalistic follks want to accept that self-sufficiency doesnt work anymore at a macroeconomic labor.

with china in the space, it seems the maid just started college.

 

[ummbikes]

Originally posted by BurlySurly
not really.

Do your homework.

Think economics.