Cindy Sheehan Considers Her Son An Idiot?!
- Thread starter stinkyboy
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Changleen said:Wow. What a tool. "I have friends who were murdered by the left".
It must suck to go back and listen to yourself and realize you don't even have the capacity to make anything up that even makes sense.
Bravo to the right for making this about him volunteering for the army. They are so good at defining the left's arguments for them, and the left, like dogs chasing a squirrel, fall for it every time.
Look at the squirrel. Lookat it! Now go git it! Git the squirrel! Good boy.
Great tool. The more ridiculous you make the argument, the more likely they are to take the bait to "defend" themselves. Bingo, you're on the offensive. Which is exactly why the left should have beat and kicked the "Bush went AWOL" dead horse into the ground during the election. It doesn't matter that it's a ridiculous argument. The fact that the right would have jumped to defend it would have made it credible, and would have made it a centerpiece.
Look at the squirrel. Lookat it! Now go git it! Git the squirrel! Good boy.
Great tool. The more ridiculous you make the argument, the more likely they are to take the bait to "defend" themselves. Bingo, you're on the offensive. Which is exactly why the left should have beat and kicked the "Bush went AWOL" dead horse into the ground during the election. It doesn't matter that it's a ridiculous argument. The fact that the right would have jumped to defend it would have made it credible, and would have made it a centerpiece.
Yeah, the 'change the argument' tactic has been used to death in the last 5 years and people STILL fall for it. DRB and $tinkle use it all the time on here even. It's like judo I suppose, take your opponent's energy and divert it to send them slaming into the mat. It's a poor reflecton on a lot of things that it contnues to be so effective.
Horowitz is a tool. Next he'll tell us how she murdered her son by not buying him bullet proof armor.
N8 can't reply to this thread because he had dinner with that guy last weekend.
well i personally dont care for horowitz, but I consider myself a conservative. He is wrong on one point, Cindy Sheehan is not exploiting her sons death. The media is just like they exploited Halloway and the Bugeyed bride and Lacy Peterson. The news is no longer the news, it is a packaged product that must be sold to consumers. We as consumers have become so numb to advertising that we dont even realize it until its too late.
Look I empathize with Cindy, ive never lost a child. But i did serve in the army,and her son did choose to join. What many dont realize is that regardless of your politcal beliefs our soldiers join the military on their own. They train, many of the jobs/skills they train for are only used when we go to combat. I was fortunate enough to never have been deployed to a hostile environment, but I can say that i regret never getting the opportunity to practice what i trained for in a real situation.
Imagine it this way, you ride your trainer in you living room for the next four years and never ride outside on the trail.
I say boycott all the news until it is really news again, and not something packed to make us feel that the world is a much worse place than it is.
How does that saying go, "believe only half of what you hear and none of what you see"?
Look I empathize with Cindy, ive never lost a child. But i did serve in the army,and her son did choose to join. What many dont realize is that regardless of your politcal beliefs our soldiers join the military on their own. They train, many of the jobs/skills they train for are only used when we go to combat. I was fortunate enough to never have been deployed to a hostile environment, but I can say that i regret never getting the opportunity to practice what i trained for in a real situation.
Imagine it this way, you ride your trainer in you living room for the next four years and never ride outside on the trail.
I say boycott all the news until it is really news again, and not something packed to make us feel that the world is a much worse place than it is.
How does that saying go, "believe only half of what you hear and none of what you see"?
Gotta love the Right.
"have you ever experienced this hardship?"
"no"
"well it matters to the discussion, and your point is null without it"
"did I say no? I meant yes"
It's just kind of this vibe I get every time I listen to someone like Horowitz.
"have you ever experienced this hardship?"
"no"
"well it matters to the discussion, and your point is null without it"
"did I say no? I meant yes"
It's just kind of this vibe I get every time I listen to someone like Horowitz.
Changleen said:
I think what he's trying to say is it's not a question of wanting to go out and kill people and blow up ****. It's a question of a person being trained over and over again to do something and then not actually put in into practice in a valid situation that warrants it. Key word: VALID
The Flying spagetti monster told me not to.
I don't regret one bit not getting to put my military skills to use.
I don't regret one bit not getting to put my military skills to use.
WTF Glower? You been drinkin' the heavy water again mate?Reactor said:
my training of killing people was over with in basic training, so yeah you missed my point. I dont regret the missed opportunity of killing people. My job was to provide support to our troopes to keep them from getting killed.
Nevermind you wouldnt/couldnt understand
Nevermind you wouldnt/couldnt understand
Yeah, it's so difficult to understand. If you haven't been in the forces you couldn't possibly comprehend the endlessly complex emotions that he's feeling right now.beestiboy said:
Oh, the angst, the angst!
Sorry, just having flashbacks to teenagers storming about how they are" unique singular beings, and you couldn't possibly understand" them.
To have a political agenda is to defeat the purpose of having elections in the first place. If we don't choose the best person to run the country, it's up to us. If the person we didn't like gets elected it is like crying for not getting your way. If we cooperate and work together instead of trying to destroy each other then we can influence and change things. The democrats trying to discredit the president doesn't change the fact that we are at war. They are only creating dissension in their country. How can the truth be told if the "agenda" is to destroy the republican party? Or vice versa? It's like our courts. Do we try to find out the truth? or sell a story? Do we try to get people elected with our"agendas" or do we support a democracy? Is this communism? or liberalism? What is going on here?
Nice cut-and-paste.Heath Sherratt said:
At this point, disagreement with the president or the war has little to do with political parties. Disagreeing with the war doesn't make someone a democrat, just like agreeing with the war doesn't make someone a republican.
This particular issue is large enough that opinions stand outside of the political arena. Don't project the aspects of the democratic party that you don't like onto everyone that is opposed to the war.
Now, a seperate point... what is wrong with descrediting someone that you truly believe should be discredited. Let me ask you this: if the pastor of a local church started sacrificing chior boys in the name of Christianity in an effort to battle Satan, wouldn't you take action to stop that? Would you feel bad about discrediting him, while he is fighting his battle? That is the way I feel about the president right now: a man who is sacrificing our children needlessly in the name of MY country, fighting a battle on the wrong front, in the wrong way, simply because he has the power to do so. I feel maniputed, I feel lied to, I am watching someone destroy our world and doing it in the name of something I am a part of and hold dear, and you would ask me to bite my tongue for the sake of his feelings. To make his job easier? To make it easier for him to continue acting in a manner that I find unspeakable?
Sorry Heath. Ain't going to happen.
He doesn't really have the capacity to express himself well enough but I believe what he's trying to say is similar to what I remember MikeD saying when he left the forces. It was something along the lines of "while I'm not sorry, from a personal harm viewpoint that I didn't go to Iraq, I will always wonder how I would have handled myself in a combat situation, whether I would have been able to act clearly and concisely using what I've been taught and trained for". My apologies Mike if they weren't your thoughts, just how I recalled it. "Regret" was a poor choice of words from Beestie but the best he could come up with I guessohio said:
I guess a lot of soldiers who have never been in combat, I guess even those who have never even been in the armed forces, will wonder whether THEY could have cut it, whether THEY would freeze up or be able to do THEIR job. I think it's a very personal thought in a way, seperate from the armed forces as a whole and political considerations of right or wrong.
ohio said:
AHAAAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAAAAA
So this being said those attacking Cindy Sheehan are right in doing so?ohio said:
Fair point. Maybe discrediting is the wrong word. It implies the ends justify means which can include spouting falsehoods, which is not what I intend.DRB said:
People that disagree with Cindy should absolutely voice their opinion, and support it with facts. They shouldn't feel the need to keep quiet to protect her feelings. At the same time, she shouldn't be slandered.
That's the same way I feel about Bush. When we attack his policies, we shouldn't go to some tangential issue to undermine his credibility. He should be attacked on the issue at hand (something that's usually not that difficult to do), with an argument supported by facts. And that argument should never be silenced for the sake of making his job easier.
And BOTH of them knew what they were signing up for. I don't feel bad for either, when they bear the burden of being public figures.
More clear?
Crystal.ohio said:
valve bouncer said:WTF Glower? You been drinkin' the heavy water again mate?
My 4yo daughter came in with a "glue and construction paper" crisis right as I was editing the message, so I sent it without checking it first. She wanted to make a construction paper princess crown and didn't understand why the glue didn't instantly stick. I'd say in that way she's a lot like George Bush wondering why Iraq didn't instantly become a model democracy, but I wouldn't want to insult her.
You can't attack Bush with facts. You can't even present the man with facts. The Palmeiro not taking steroids issue is a great, and for once a trivial, example that.ohio said:
Missed this...ohio said:
We've all been teenagers, we all haven't been soldiers. And unlike most things that I agree that you don't have to actually have done to understand, being a combat soldier simply isn't one of them. I think it is impossible to relate to what it is like to be under fire unless you have been there.
Except that wasn't the case in this instance. Beestiething was regretting that he hadn't seen combat.DRB said:
valve bouncer said:
I do have the capacity to express myself but just didnt feel the need to waste much more time on the topic. Regret may not be the best description but by no means do I wonder how I would have performed. I know how well I trained, how well my 6 man team worked together, and have zero questions in my mind as to what could/would have been had the opportunity arisen. I got out of the military for very specific and personal reasons, I felt that Mr. Clinton was doing the very thing many of you feel Mr. Bush is doing to our soldiers. I didnt want to sacrifice my life for some godforsaken 3rd world nation. What many of you dont realize is that your political views cloud your vision. Iraq isnt that much different than Serbia, Rowanda, and other locals where we sent in troops and bombs under the guise of relief or to help topple an oppressive regime.
the main difference is that Bush doesnt have the political skill to hide his methods, and surely has burned enough bridges with the UN that he cannot use them as a cover. And obviously we have sent more troops per square foot to Iraq. Meanwhile when bill was in power our armed services were the most heavily deployed since Vietnam. The 10th Mountain Division (where i spent most of my active duty) was deployed more often than any other Army unit. All the while he was cutting back the defense budget to the point where vehicles and equipment were unserviceable. If you recall at the begining of this war, there was a shortage of body armour....why? There wasnt a huge influx of soldiers that made supply short. I was issued a vest upon entering the 10th mtn div, but by the end it was barely serviceable. Isnt convienient that the media and others were so quick to blame the current administration for the lack of protection when it should have been in place many years before.edit
And for one thing not being a "combat soldier" goes to prove my point that you wouldnt understand. I wasnt an infantry man, yet I made damn sure that I was an expert marksman because had it come to it my team would be on or behind enemy lines. Their are nurses, and before you jerkoffs start in on it I wasnt a nurse either, (certainly doesnt qualify as a "Combat Soldier") that get fired upon.
I was referring to you not having gone into combat. I am well-aware that you don't have to be infantry to be in a combat situation.beestiboy said:
Anyway, I didn't mean to completely belittle you. I appreciate your service and the skills that you were trained to have. I was making more of the "no one understands me" claims, not your desire to exercise skills you had learned, which I think is a perfectly understandable emotion.
By the way, I didn't think the 10th Mtn Division still existed, but I did have a good friend in the modern-day version of it. Were you based out of VT/NH?
Bush chose to go to war against Iraq when he did. As we have seen, there was no need or imminent danger. Whatever the previous administration did, Bush made a choice that the troops should go to war with the kit they had. If he really gave a sh1t about the troops, he would have waited and ensured you had time to be properly equiped.beestiboy said:
May I also add your kit was 1000 times better than your enemy's.
10th mtn is at Ft Drum in upstate NY.
Ohio, thank you for realizing my point I wasnt really upset with your comments.
Lets face it we all have our own opinions and at the end of the day there is very little that I or you can say that will change the others feelings. I for one am not out to do so, I just chip in my $.02 and let you chew on it. Im just in it for the mental bubblegum, something to occupy my time since I got rid of my TV 3 months ago. Man I miss speed channel!
Ohio, thank you for realizing my point I wasnt really upset with your comments.
Lets face it we all have our own opinions and at the end of the day there is very little that I or you can say that will change the others feelings. I for one am not out to do so, I just chip in my $.02 and let you chew on it. Im just in it for the mental bubblegum, something to occupy my time since I got rid of my TV 3 months ago. Man I miss speed channel!