[MTB_Rob_NC]

Ok so I got a pretty decent bonus this month so it is time to spend some $ on some wheels. When I built up my Heckler new the only thing I transfered from my old bike was my wheelset. However now with well over 2 years of heavy riding it is just time to upgrade them. Currently I am running
Front = Mavic X3.1, dt swiss spokes, XT hub
Rear = Mavic D3.1, dt swiss spokes, XT hub

This wheelset has been pretty bullet proof for me.

So these are the options I am kicking around.

1) Chris King/Mavic wheelset. I would go with the Mavic XM 819 with Black CK hubs, black spokes and blue ano nipples (which would match my bike)

or

2) CrossMax XL's. The lack of spokes always worried me, but this year they even offer a 20mm axle option. So I figure if they are ponying up to that, they have to be strong enough for my riding style

So comments please, or other similar options? It is a tough call, the Xmax have the sight "bling" factor, but the CK has the sound "bling" factor (and the blue ano nipples would be cool). They are very close in both price and weight.

 

[MMcG]

The CK built wheels get my vote! I suspect the CK hubs would be much better than the Mavic hubs that come on the Xmax wheels - but that's just my guess.

 

[dan-o]

Both are nice options. I'd go for the king wheels simply for the ease of repair. Skip the alloy nipples though, they don't make sense for disc wheels.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Skip the alloy nipples though, they don't make sense for disc wheels.

How so? But they'd look so damn cool.

 

[dan-o]

How so? But they'd look so damn cool.

Brass nipples are stronger and only marginally heavier than alloy. With the extra strain discs cause on wheels, brass nipples will build a longer lasting wheel and hold up better to adjustment over the life of the wheel, IMO.

 

[Echo]

Never ever ever ever use alloy nipples for disc wheels!

 

[JRB]

My buddy has the Mavics and I have worked on bearing tension a few times. Parts are expensive as well. May even be hard to get. Just because they offer 20mm hubs, I wouldn't call that a victory. I have seen some stupid marketing in cycling. Alloy nipples suck. Period. They suck even more when you have to contend with the nipple inserts of 819s. I vote black brass if you must have colored nipples. I like silver fine myself. Look into Magura pro wheels. They are 3.1s on Hugi 240s. Hammerhead bikes has them for $450. They are working great for me and you don't need king hub tools. I like King stuff, but don't think I ever want the headaches of dealing with their hubs. I don't think they are bulletproof if you don't maintain them. Lots of money to worry about whether you did the work, or did it right.

 

[binary visions]

IMO, I don't think there's a pre-built wheelset on the market that will match up to a handbuilt wheelset. Choosing your spokes, hubs & rims to suit you, mixing and matching for strength vs. weight, and having it built and tensioned by hand - I think that's a much better option.

 

[Echo]

Alloy nipples suck. Period. They suck even more when you have to contend with the nipple inserts of 819s. I vote black brass if you must have colored nipples. I like silver fine myself.

I agree that alloy nips are crap... but why would the inserts have anything to do with it? First of all if he's not building the wheels himself it won't matter. Second of all if you use the longer nips like they recommend, it's not that hard to lace them up. Just takes a little longer.

 

[SkaredShtles]

<snip>
This wheelset has been pretty bullet proof for me.

IMO, if your current wheelset is still bulletproof you're going to curse yourself by getting a new one. First the new one will probably crap on you, then just to spite you your old one will crap once you start using it while the new set is being fixed.

Beware the wrath of jilted parts................

-S.S.-

 

[JRB]

I agree that alloy nips are crap... but why would the inserts have anything to do with it? First of all if he's not building the wheels himself it won't matter. Second of all if you use the longer nips like they recommend, it's not that hard to lace them up. Just takes a little longer.

I meant contending with that all of the time, because a nipple broke. Not a huge deal, I agree. I sure do like using a nipple driver on wheels though. I like my 3.1s very well, so I would not discourage that.

 

[Echo]

FWIW, the wheels on my Blur are King ISO disc hubs with XM819 UST rims, brass nips. Handbuilt by me, after the first ride I retentioned and trued them and they have been perfect ever since. That's with tons of trail rides, many races, some commuting, and a couple of 24 hour races.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

IMO, if your current wheelset is still bulletproof you're going to curse yourself by getting a new one. First the new one will probably crap on you, then just to spite you your old one will crap once you start using it while the new set is being fixed.

Beware the wrath of jilted parts................

-S.S.-

Well I wouldnt be throwing them away that is for sure. However after 2+ years they constantly need tensioning now, and the flat spots are getting more prevalent.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Look into Magura pro wheels. They are 3.1s on Hugi 240s. Hammerhead bikes has them for $450.

These look nice but the Mavic 219 rims are last years (I think) and a step behind the new 819's (again I think). Not to mention that wheel set is pretty heavy compared to the other options.

 

[JRB]

These look nice but the Mavic 219 rims are last years (I think) and a step behind the new 819's (again I think). Not to mention that wheel set is pretty heavy compared to the other options.

Those are the FRs. I was referring to the regular 240s and 3.1s. Wumpus has the FRs and one is last years rim and one is this years. Aren't 819s the new 3.1s. They just changed the labeling is all, I think.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Those are the FRs. I was referring to the regular 240s and 3.1s. Wumpus has the FRs and one is last years rim and one is this years. Aren't 819s the new 3.1s. They just changed the labeling is all, I think.

I am all confused with Mavic's new labeling vs their old labeling. The 819's replaced the x3.1s, but then so does the xm321. Then who knows where the D3.1s fall. I think my riding has smoothed out enough to go with the "All Mountain" in the rear as well as apposed to the Downhill rim. I'd really like to go with a light(ish) all mountain RIM with 36 spoke capability(if I do not choose the Xmax). But then I gotta find a hub that matches. Agh decisions decisions!

 

[BillT]

I'd stay away from the factory Mavic wheels and get a nice handbuilt set of Chris King's on whatever Mavic rim works for you (if DT Swiss had a UST rim, I'd recommend that). IMHO, the King hubs blow away Mavic's offering and replacement parts for when you bust a spoke, etc are more readily with a CK/Mavic/spoke of your choice wheelset. Also, I"d stay away from alloy nipples with disc brakes - they tend to not like the added stress of the disc brakes. Most custom wheelbuilders would recommend the same.

 

[Mike B.]

Hand built wheels with King hubs in a second. Find someone that has the hubs in stock though because our most recent batch of black hubs has been backordered for about a month. Just got some red King ISOs in though.

What's with everyone being scared of alloy nipples - ignorance I tell you. Yes you can strip an alloy nipple if you use the wrong size spoke wrench or do not lubricate them properly when doing the build but they are by no means whatsoever an issue for disk wheels. Just don't be a complete ham-fisted guerilla when you true your wheels and don't over tension spokes to the point where you can strip a nipple. We only build with alloy nipples and every custom builder (and they're some big names in the business) we sell rims to will build a disk wheel with alloy nipples.

 

[Echo]

What's with everyone being scared of alloy nipples - ignorance I tell you.

From sheldonbrown's site:

For light-weight, high-performance wheels, aluminum nipples are available. Aluminum nipples do save a small amount of weight, and they can be quite reliable if used properly. They should only be used with rims that have eyelets of some material other than aluminum, because aluminum/aluminum contact between rim and nipple can result in chemical welding, immobilizing the nipples.

It's a pretty widely held opinion that aluminum nipples are not a good idea for disc wheels. If you choose to ignore that opinion, that doesn't mean everyone else is ignorant

 

[Mike B.]

From sheldonbrown's site:



It's a pretty widely held opinion that aluminum nipples are not a good idea for disc wheels. If you choose to ignore that opinion, that doesn't mean everyone else is ignorant

Sheldon is certainly a knowledgeable man and I won't argue that there is a collective opinion that aluminum nipples are not sufficient for disk wheels. As I'm sure we've all heard before, there is often a difference between fact and opinion.

<snip>me getting worked up for no reason</snip>

We've sent wheels to the Olympics, supplied many pro race teams, work with world-class builders, sent wheels to the most demanding testing for OEM applications (1000 mile torture tests), all built with aluminum nipples and no nipple failures or cracked nipple seats.

BTW Echo, this in not directed at you, just something I'm a little touchy about. In my eyes, it's just a common misconception like many other things it's too late to list.

Now just get me started on people that say you can't build a disk wheel with 1.8/1.5 silver Revolution spokes.

 

[jacksonpt]

King/Mavic every time. Every part of that build is top notch and easy to find. Assuming they will be built well, there's no reason to consider a factory built wheelset.

 

[jdcamb]

I like King stuff, but don't think I ever want the headaches of dealing with their hubs. I don't think they are bulletproof if you don't maintain them. Lots of money to worry about whether you did the work, or did it right.

Huh? I like many others have had no headaches with their King hubs. By the way most of the service that needs to be done on CK hubs can be done without the CK tools. Everything just needs to be lubed up periodically. All that takes is 2 5mm allen wrenches and a pen knife. Very easy. Many folks I have talked to have never done the full service on their CK hubs and they work fine. One guy has been running his hubs for 5 years without the full service and he puts in many miles on them. I am the only person I know that has ever broke their CK hub and that was a fluke. Lots of myths floating around here .....jdcamb

 

[BillT]

I've had the same set of King hubs for over 5 years and they are still going strong. I originally bought them (non-disc Classics) for my last XC bike a little over 5 years ago and when I built up my new XC bike with disc brakes, I had them sent back to King to upgrade the shells to the ISO shells - the bearings are still original and working just as flawlessly as day 1.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

New big + for the CrossMax XL. Ok after doing some more research and price comparison a HUGE + has developed for the CrossMax XL. For a small $ I can get a no questions asked 2 year warranty on the CrossMax. Oh AND one of my LBS' has them in stock.

 

[Echo]

I'd love to see the wording of that warranty... you're probably gonna need it

With the King/Mavic you probably won't ever worry about your wheels again. Unless you build with aluminum nipples

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

I'd love to see the wording of that warranty... you're probably gonna need it

2 of the very reputable high end LBS I do business with have spoken very highly of both the Xmax wheels and the warranty. Both have had very few, trouble free warranty replacements taken care of.

With the King/Mavic you probably won't ever worry about your wheels again. Unless you build with aluminum nipples

I haven't had issues with my Mavic/XT wheels. However wheels just dont last me forever. I am very satisfied with the 2+ years I have gotten out of my current wheelset. Suprisingly the hubs aren't an issue. The rims are just a little too dinged up to stay true for very long these days.

 

[Echo]

Actually either way you will most likely be fine, and if the Xmax wheels are what you deem to be the best value and performance for your situation, go for it

But you did ask for opinions

 

[BillT]

I still think that you would be better off with the CK's. The CK hubs are superior to anything that Mavic puts out in terms of sealing and engagement. Regardless of the warranty, if you do have any issues/problems it would be much easier to service the CK wheelset as its parts are standard/non-proprietary.

What are you going to do if you bust a spoke in Mammoth and none of the small shops in the area have replacement Mavic spokes?

 

[Echo]

2 of the very reputable high end LBS I do business with have spoken very highly of both the Xmax wheels and the warranty. Both have had very few, trouble free warranty replacements taken care of.

Of course they are going to speak highly of them, those wheels have a nice margin

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

But you did ask for opinions

I know... Keep them coming.

I am leaning more and more towards the Xmax for these reasons

1) They are less expensive (even adding the warranty), although one of my LBS is DRAGGING HIS feet with giving me a CK/build quote damn him!

2) They weigh less. Shedding some rotational mass off my 32.6lb Heckler would be nice. (either wheelset will save me some weight)

3) One of the LBS' has them in stock and his price to me is less then I can find them on-line anywhere.

4) The Warranty is a nice piece of mind.

 

[bullcrew]

Consider mag intense 30's w/ ck hubs and dt swiss spokes, I run them. I weigh over 210 lbs and my theory of riding is Point and shoot. I've smacked it all, doll heads, jagged rock retaining walls behind wall mart, even smacked a log in WAHA. So far no problems. My DEEMAX however are showing flat spots and dents.
Just a thought to consider. I do like Mavic alot, but the dh 30's have been extremely surprising.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Of course they are going to speak highly of them, those wheels have a nice margin

Not to me they dont Being on the Board of Director's of the local IMBA affiliate and basically being one of the main local trail builders they know better then to bite the hand that feeds them. Not to mention that they know I am an internet hound and know everyone.

Oh ya, and I am an accountant and was standing there when they were on the phone with Quality and mulitplied his price *1.05

AND I really wanted the CK's having THEM build the wheels. So there is certainly more profit potential there.

 

[Ridemonkey]

I've had 2 pairs of Crossmax wheels over the last 5 years. They are really great wheels - tough too.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Bought the CrossMax XL's with a new XT cassette and new Hayes rotors, making my old wheelset a true spare.

Thanks for all the opinions though.

I may make a Turbo Monkey this week!

 

[BillT]

Nice...I would have gotten the CK's, but those will be a nice wheelset. Once I get through the holidays I'm looking to get a new wheelset for my Bullit or at least a new rear wheel.

 

[JRB]

Nothing wrong with King. They just recommend more maintenance than I want. It may not be required, but I would feel compelled to deal with it. I don't mind anyone having them, but the myth is that they are the be all/end all of your hub needs. Yes they are nice, so is hope and hugi and hadley. As far as 819s go, they are tubeless and they replaced the 3.1s. 717s replaced the 517s. Are the 519s just 719s??? I will look on Mavic's site.

 

[JRB]

317s are 717 discs now. It looks like the 617s are xm317s now. Confusing. Everything has just been relabeled from Mavic it looks like. 321s are in fact still just 321s.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

BLING BLING

The Avid rotor is just temporary