Climate Change...
- Thread starter 6thElement
- Start date
Green hydrogen is coming.
www.rechargenews.com
'Warp speed away from Russian energy' as Germany seals Canadian green hydrogen pact | Recharge
First shipments of ammonia made from renewable H2 to Europe's largest economy foreseen 'as early as 2025' as countries seek to build transatlantic supply chain
Cali and NY to ban full ICE from 2035, amongst others. Too late but the right way.
California to end sales of gasoline-only cars by 2035
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-says-california-should-toughen-ev-requirements-2022-08-25/
New York sets 2035 zero-emission passenger car goal
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/new-york-sets-2035-zero-emission-passenger-car-goal-2021-09-09/
California to end sales of gasoline-only cars by 2035
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-says-california-should-toughen-ev-requirements-2022-08-25/
New York sets 2035 zero-emission passenger car goal
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/new-york-sets-2035-zero-emission-passenger-car-goal-2021-09-09/
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Good news everybody. Just came upon this post on the vitalmx forums discussing california ev rules. Enjoy!
Can we stop calling it "fossil fuels" and call it petroleum? Are people really so brain dead to think that the oil and gas on this planet is from dead dino's and plants? Have you ever dug up something that was buried in the backyard, hopefully not your ex, and found a pool of oil?
Oil and gas are abiotic, meaning renewable, and are produced from the magma in the earths center. It is of course extremely hot and the off gas and oil, move up in cracks all over the earth and pool up. After a field is mostly extracted well pressures drop and so it either needs to be fracked to allow more into the pool, or it's abandoned, only to fill up again over time. These things were confirmed to me by multiple geologists who work in the industry, but of course if they were to announce this publicly they would not be long for the world.
We also have historically low levels of Co2 on the planet, when examining ice cores from thousands of years, this is clear. And of course plants use Co2 for food, so we need to maintain a certain level for life as we know it to proliferate.
Everything related to this issue is for the purpose of enslaving humanity by a small group of psychopaths, as pointed out in earlier posts. Our way of life is in danger, so ride your dirtbike to forget about it for awhile, but fight them like hell the rest of the time
Can we stop calling it "fossil fuels" and call it petroleum? Are people really so brain dead to think that the oil and gas on this planet is from dead dino's and plants? Have you ever dug up something that was buried in the backyard, hopefully not your ex, and found a pool of oil?
Oil and gas are abiotic, meaning renewable, and are produced from the magma in the earths center. It is of course extremely hot and the off gas and oil, move up in cracks all over the earth and pool up. After a field is mostly extracted well pressures drop and so it either needs to be fracked to allow more into the pool, or it's abandoned, only to fill up again over time. These things were confirmed to me by multiple geologists who work in the industry, but of course if they were to announce this publicly they would not be long for the world.
We also have historically low levels of Co2 on the planet, when examining ice cores from thousands of years, this is clear. And of course plants use Co2 for food, so we need to maintain a certain level for life as we know it to proliferate.
Everything related to this issue is for the purpose of enslaving humanity by a small group of psychopaths, as pointed out in earlier posts. Our way of life is in danger, so ride your dirtbike to forget about it for awhile, but fight them like hell the rest of the time
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mY nEcK bEaRd Is OiLy So cLiMaTe ChAnGe iS a LiBrUl cOnSpIrAcY
the magma just keeps making more
because abiotic, which definitely means renewable
because abiotic, which definitely means renewable
I'll just make shit up, 'cause there are bound to be people dumber than me.
the scary part is he's not wrong
for all the idiocy, the diction is surprisingly solid
" 'em"
I'm going to build an electric car that runs off a diesel generator mounted to the roof
sounds artisanal
lithium doesn't mine itself....they can do it...
Now complain about gas prices.
The current cheapest electric car is probably marginally more expensive over its life time than the cheapest gas car considering lower operating expenses without tax incentives. I am guessing they can improve on that in 13 years.
The biggest issue IMO is going to be how people who have to street park will be able to charge at home.
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Only if the diesel motor extracts hydrogen from water and gets pumped into a fuel cell.
i could give two shits about gas prices....
im waiting for the fantasy green power grid....
Now stop pretending electric cars aren't expensive
- 10. 2022 Volkswagen ID.4—$42,525
- 9. 2022 Hyundai Ioniq 5—$41,245
- 8. 2022 Ford F-150 Lightning—$41,769
- 7. 2022 Kia Niro EV—$41,285
- 6. 2022 Hyundai Kona Electric—$35,295
- 5. 2022 Chevrolet Bolt EUV—$34,495
- 4. 2022 Chevrolet Bolt EV—$32,495
- 3. 2022 Mazda MX-30—$34,695
- 2. 2022 Mini Cooper SE Hardtop—$30,750
- 1. 2022 Nissan Leaf—$28,495
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g40605495/cheapest-electric-cars/
I don't know about you but that's some expensive shit for me. If CA really wanted more ecars in lieu of gassers they would help it happen, not just dictate it. They did that with catalytic converters, which is pretty much the only functional thing to come out of the way this state deals with this stuff. If they really wanted less pollution they would build the fucking train infrastructure we've voted on like 3 times now.
I do wonder what this decree from the hairdo will do to gas prices since that's really what's going to affect the unrich the most since ain't nobody can afford that battery shit.
The prius has proven fairly durable but most electric cars haven't. So it won't be the same used market.
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Wow, how much are houses?
EV prices rise to $54,000 average as materials costs and demand soar - Autoblog
Automakers are seeing reductions in profits and are having difficulties keeping production lines rolling as shortages in raw materials have caused prices to climb and supplies to dwindle.
www.autoblog.com
The average purchase price of a modern car in the US is about $48K, so those are all below average.
Now Compare the cost of similar models
Nissan Leaf vs Subaru Impreza
2022 Subaru Impreza: True Cost to Own | Edmunds
View detailed ownership costs for the 2022 Subaru Impreza on Edmunds. The 2022 Subaru Impreza True Cost to Own includes depreciation, taxes, financing, fuel costs, insurance, maintenance, repairs, and tax credits over the span of 5 years of ownership.
www.edmunds.com
2022 Nissan LEAF: True Cost to Own | Edmunds
View detailed ownership costs for the 2022 Nissan LEAF on Edmunds. The 2022 Nissan LEAF True Cost to Own includes depreciation, taxes, financing, fuel costs, insurance, maintenance, repairs, and tax credits over the span of 5 years of ownership.
www.edmunds.com
$26, 478 vs $32,450
Take out the Tax credit and the Leaf is about a grand more. Extend that COO just another year or two and the leaf comes out on top.
A lot of those cars also have inflated prices because of the tax credits, they are all eerily competitive price wise when you take that into consideration.
Also this is 13 years from now. While the ICE is approaching its theoretical limit of efficiency solid state batteries are on the cusp of mass manufacture which will give them competitive if not superior range to gas cars. In addition modern efficient engines have become so complicated that their long term reliability is questionable. Long gone are the days of 400,000 mile Hondas and Toyotas. Just the low tension compression rings in cars has them losing compression and burning oil after 100K.
The architecture of an electric car is so much simpler that once the supply chain and infrastructure catch up I would be willing to bet a goodly sum of money that in a decade they will be economically superior to gas cars. In places without rules like this the only gas vehicles will be the expensive luxury models for the tech bros.
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Fuckwits with Grammarly.
@Westy: SteveO posted an avg for me, I literally just searched "cheapest electric cars"
You can't do total cost of ownership on one without ignoring the specialized mechanic costs and subscriptions(!) on the others. I listed the cheapest msrp only, and you went started started citing the much higher average msrp plus all this other junk.
You know how this is going though. With a captive audience there's no real reason to be throwing out discounts. This will take a decade to chill out and until then, ev cars will continue to be more expensive.
Plus it's california. Literally nothing they do, NOTHING ever functions to benefit anyone other than rich people, to guarantee that the policies they want to see in place just end up making poverty worse. It's all the bad things about american capitalism cloaked in virtue signaling on steroids. I swear it's in the state constitution somewhere that wealthy people must be the only ones not inconvenienced. Where 'inconvenienced' in this case means being cast aside into poverty.
You know seattle's homeless situation...it's like that and worse in every single city and town here now. No joke.
There's no equivalent to this. Not even close.
And even the prices of those have literally doubled in the last 8 years.
I have nothing against electric anything. I'm just tired of this state mandating shit buffers rich people, ake not being rich here even more of a burden, will not really solve the problem, all while not actually facilitating these changes. Tax breaks and incentives just squarely put this on douches like tesla. Drop this in the lap of stanford and cal tech for a few years before issuing edicts. That's my much bigger issue. These idiots banned gas generators while simultaneously instituting rolling power blackouts in areas that see 100+ degree temps every day. When asked about it, hair gel said "they can use electric generators" He actually thinks that exists.
I do think the ev market has a chance to do it right and make a 4wd elcamino so us dirtyfolk don't have to buy trucks that are too stupid big. I'd go into debt for that.
You can't do total cost of ownership on one without ignoring the specialized mechanic costs and subscriptions(!) on the others. I listed the cheapest msrp only, and you went started started citing the much higher average msrp plus all this other junk.
You know how this is going though. With a captive audience there's no real reason to be throwing out discounts. This will take a decade to chill out and until then, ev cars will continue to be more expensive.
Plus it's california. Literally nothing they do, NOTHING ever functions to benefit anyone other than rich people, to guarantee that the policies they want to see in place just end up making poverty worse. It's all the bad things about american capitalism cloaked in virtue signaling on steroids. I swear it's in the state constitution somewhere that wealthy people must be the only ones not inconvenienced. Where 'inconvenienced' in this case means being cast aside into poverty.
You know seattle's homeless situation...it's like that and worse in every single city and town here now. No joke.
There's no equivalent to this. Not even close.
And even the prices of those have literally doubled in the last 8 years.
I have nothing against electric anything. I'm just tired of this state mandating shit buffers rich people, ake not being rich here even more of a burden, will not really solve the problem, all while not actually facilitating these changes. Tax breaks and incentives just squarely put this on douches like tesla. Drop this in the lap of stanford and cal tech for a few years before issuing edicts. That's my much bigger issue. These idiots banned gas generators while simultaneously instituting rolling power blackouts in areas that see 100+ degree temps every day. When asked about it, hair gel said "they can use electric generators" He actually thinks that exists.
I do think the ev market has a chance to do it right and make a 4wd elcamino so us dirtyfolk don't have to buy trucks that are too stupid big. I'd go into debt for that.
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Vestas are doing a 15 megawatt turbine. Nice. It’s a geared design so the nacelle is a bit bigger than it arguably ‘has to be’ but check out the scale of this thing:
And look at the size of the blade moulds, super cool. I wonder what mandrel tech they use.
And look at the size of the blade moulds, super cool. I wonder what mandrel tech they use.
skateboard me would have forced myself into that job for no particular reason having to do with that second picture whatsoever
I wonder how far they'll be able to chuck those
I wonder how far they'll be able to chuck those
Wind Bust: How an airborne blade exposed broader problems at PGE’s flagship wind farm :: The Oregonian/OregonLive
The dramatic episode in the rural landscape of the Columbia River Gorge represents a revealing, if concerning, inflection point in Oregon’s two-decade history with the ubiquitous turbines that help fuel clean energy.
projects.oregonlive.com
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Yeah searching for cheapest electric cars is probably the right way to make a realistic comparison. Much like "simple as a flanel shirt" pick up trucks, electric cars have become status symbols for douche bags, just a different type of douche bag. Well except for the Hummer EV, that is for some coal rolling douche bag with an inheritance and a brain injury.
It is also worth noting that cost often has little to do with price. Those $45,000 pick up trucks cost $45,000 because they can find enough idiots to pay $45,000 and make an additional $15,000 profit. Economy shit boxes are a much better measure of cost to manufacture.
The rest of the world gets plenty of common sense and affordable cars Americans are just too fucking stupid to buy them.
Anyway I think this is all a pointless argument from an affordability perspective because I am very confident that in 10 years electric cars will be more affordable and ICEs will be the domain of status symbols.
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For all of california's supposed 'progressivism™' the vast majority of people living in this state just got told that if they expect to buy car by 2035, they need to fork over 2/3-3/3 of their salary. And I don't mean new, electric cars. It's a microcosm but they essentially issued similar rules years ago with motorcycles for the same reason and in the same way. So what happened when they became a hard rule 2 years ago? No new motorcycles as intended but used ones shot through the fucking roof. Used gas cars will do the same in 2035. So access to transportation will suffer from this. It's going to make an existing economic problem in CA worse, fewer people will be able to maintain jobs, all because hairdo wants to run for president and wants some prog points. You need to get to point B from A? You kinda need a car in america to be employed in most places. The gap between coastal rich and everyone else here is debatably worse than a lot of other places. This will augment that because no steps are being done to take at least a part of this out of the consumerist realm, and into real measures which actually address the problem, which is less shit in the air. I have no problem with a mandate for manufacturers. But it needs to be partnered with some real meaningful steps to curb the reality that it's just going to become another way poor people get fucked. There's little to no investment from this state that advances cheapening the technology, or a substitute for transportation that will be more accessible at every level.
"ride a bike" doesn't work in the burbs with no bike lanes and nothing but shitty sprawl civic nightmare planning (sic) designed to do nothing but drive. The gated communities neither understand this or seem to give a shit because it doesn't affect them.
So no, my problem isn't with EVs, it's the way that it's being handled via mandate, and little else.
"ride a bike" doesn't work in the burbs with no bike lanes and nothing but shitty sprawl civic nightmare planning (sic) designed to do nothing but drive. The gated communities neither understand this or seem to give a shit because it doesn't affect them.
So no, my problem isn't with EVs, it's the way that it's being handled via mandate, and little else.
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Oh Washington is also really good at making things worse by trying to do the right thing. Idealists without a fucking ounce of common sense.
pRoGrEsSiVe lEaDeRs oF tHe nAtIoN!!!
we have 3 or 4 seatacs in the state but tacoma to everett might as well be the same as any of them
The rub is that these fools in gov't can't be this stupid, at least not in terms of staffing and orbit. These are not difficult problems that can't be foreseen or without precedent. They all have staff that are telling them this. The starker reality is just that they don't give a shit. Newsome is basically a Getty family heir, might as well be a trump. The monetacracy is the problem. Anyone expecting this kook to come up with anything productive is blind. He's completely insulated and has been his entire life.
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Seattle just announced an affordable housing program. No source of funding. Individuals making less than $100,000 a year would qualify. Median family income is less than that. I hope I heard those details wrong but that is fucking stupid and destined to fail.
Current programs give priority to people making less than $27,000 and they cannot meet the needs of those people who qualify.
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My county is building some 'affordable' housing condos that are 400% of median income to rent (which is like 40-50k/yr here)
I know that 400% because they were proud of it and kept bragging
that's all of it, like 4x your total salary, as in you have no money left for food or anything else. So the effect is only people making 7x the median income can afford it if they expect to eat
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My county is building some 'affordable' housing condos that are 400% of median income to rent (which is like 60k/yr here)
I know that 400% because they were proud of it and kept bragging
A controversial apartment building recently got built near me. They were able to avoid certain zoning laws like having available parking, green spaces, height limits, stand backs etc under the guise of affordable housing. The city claimed because it was next to a bus stop people don't need cars because the only place anyone ever goes around here is downtown. Anyway the "affordable" part was only based on square footage. These are small luxury apartments with mountain views and someone who lives there parks their new 911 out front. the developer made a huge profit and the people living nearby got fucked.
every
fucking
time
Any new development here of any scale has to include some cheaper units. Of like 7 that have gone up in the last 10 years only one of them didn't find a way to weasel out of it. Every stand alone 'affordable' project turns into exactly what you describe.
Oh yeah, that same county I mentioned where I live: They permitted 48% of my entire damn town as either airbnb or vrbo short term rentals. Don't know why we ain't got no housing!
It's all show. All of it. This car thing will be no different.