whatever it does lets just hope it makes Easton's carbon bars stronger - cause they need it! Over the past 2 years I've seen a too many stories about Easton Carbon bars either breaking or cracking. 
CNT - Easton Carbon Nanotubes
- Thread starter Acadian
- Start date
actually, imho, this is no differente from like 99% of the stuff in the bike industry.
yeah, with nanotubes is stronger. no deny on that.
but the cost-effectiveness of nanotubes at the present time and costs, is no-sense.
nowadays light bars weight 150grams. a monstruos decrease of 33% in weight (only 50 grams!!!!!) would cost a crapload of money. imo, stupid waste of money.
some guys will buy it, definately, but not because of an engineering - performance reason, they will just because the reason people buy XOs, or 900 bucks cranks, or titanium rotors.
just like anything else in the industry, which will be bought because of hype.
yeah, with nanotubes is stronger. no deny on that.
but the cost-effectiveness of nanotubes at the present time and costs, is no-sense.
nowadays light bars weight 150grams. a monstruos decrease of 33% in weight (only 50 grams!!!!!) would cost a crapload of money. imo, stupid waste of money.
some guys will buy it, definately, but not because of an engineering - performance reason, they will just because the reason people buy XOs, or 900 bucks cranks, or titanium rotors.
just like anything else in the industry, which will be bought because of hype.
oh, and for those who want to play with nanofibers.
it took us 3 months in a recently equipped lab just to develop a predictable process to build homogeneous test plates of nanofiber reinforced fiberglass.
including a guy with 2 Ph.D. one of them related to nanofibers manufacturing process.
good luck trying that in your garage. with army surpluses.
it took us 3 months in a recently equipped lab just to develop a predictable process to build homogeneous test plates of nanofiber reinforced fiberglass.
including a guy with 2 Ph.D. one of them related to nanofibers manufacturing process.
good luck trying that in your garage. with army surpluses.
I think bcd was talking about buying the carbon surplus and making his own stuff. Not growing his own fibers or whatever you do. I also think his operation is slightly above the average garage.ALEXIS_DH said:
bcd, How long have you been doing carbon? 10-15 yrs?
buildyourown said:
dude, get this (the worst part), we were just doing composites reinforced with nanotubes!!!!!!!!!!
the nanotubes were already made!!.
for the composite to be good, the nanotubes have to be evenly distributed (5 grams of solid in 1lb in resin, and fiberglass), and that is tricky as hell.
we got problems with the vacuum, with the pressure, with the temperature. every little variable caused shifts in nanotubes density. and those were flat squares, and rods for testing.
took a whole summer term just to find out a process in which we could make evenly distributed composites predicatably.
think about MAKING multiwalled the nanotubes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well then, that sounds like PITA. Makes you wonder how much of this technology is really in the Easton bar.ALEXIS_DH said:
Keep in mind that Easton is one of the top companies in the world when it comes to material engineering - look how much Easton stuff you see on bikes all over the place. Every (high-end) RS fork has Easton stanchions, then there's Easton RAD/scandium/whatever frames all over the place, as well as Easton's self-labeled products (stems, bars, seatposts etc) that are all phenomenally light and strong (relatively speaking). If anyone was going to bring it to bikes, it'd be them.buildyourown said:
Easton is a big company, I don't know how involved they are getting with this but I'm sure they could it to virtually whatever extent they wanted to...
Let's stop speculating and just wait and see what these bars are all about at interbike.
Let's stop speculating and just wait and see what these bars are all about at interbike.
I heard they were flexy.
nuh uh,Acadian said:
that's why they painted the center section rootbeer, cause that's the strongest and least flexiest color for bike parts! STFU stoopid newb!
You misspelt n00b, n00b.
i have been working in composites for 15 years. i hade my hand layinf up complex parts in a 3.tALEXIS_DH said:
ex mold. when i was 15. now i own autoclave, vacum, alum molds for tubes for pre preg and blatters. yes i use a house hold oven, and work in a garge but i make parts that work perfect. i am sur i could make a nanotube for a bike.
i have no interest in expensive carbon. i want to make carbon the next alum. it already is strong enough for a bicycle aplication.
Nanaotubes are for making jetstream wind genterators guidwires and elavators to space.
so anyone talked to them about it at Interbike? Fraser?
I can see people inserting an extra letter in to that acronym if/when their bar breaks on them.
yeah grimm you are right! carbon gives one of the coolest looks to a product with the way it sheans! any way i don't mind graphics if they are keep to a minimum but the definitally are too many on thoses bars!
Nano tubes are total BS until they can be made to filiment length.
Doesnt matter how strong something is if it's not useable.
Doesnt matter how strong something is if it's not useable.
PS: Using fillers (nanotube or other) only increases stiffness and strength at the cost of toughness.
So what the heck are they selling?
So what the heck are they selling?
Actually, toughness IS a defined engineering term and easily measureable... but good effort at sarcasm!wirly said:What are the units of toughness, and is it measured per unit weight or length?
edit: to expand on that, it's a measurement of energy absorbtion per unit area duing a fracture event. In general brittle materials absorb almost no energy before they break even if the breaking force is very high, while ductile materials absorb a lot (so much in fact that when we did tests on copper samples they'd be too hot to hold at first) even if the force required is low.
Come on Marshall...bite. You said this is your background a few months back didn't you? Throw in some bigger comments...
B,
I was manager of the composites lab at 3TEX (www.3tex.com) for several years. I worked on stuff like Carbon-Carbon Valves, 3D braiding machines that could braid one piece carbon control arms, I designed large VARTM mold systems and even orchestrated the fabrication of the largest 3D woven composite in history. But that doesn't mean I know what Easton is claiming to sell.
Last I heard, Nano-Tubes weren't available in lengths greater than whisker-shavings. Their high theoretical strength was due to the fact that shorter fibers look better in strength tests (long fibers have more potential "bad-links" in their molecular chain). However, a composite material requires the longest fiber length possible in order to acheive any real strength, otherwise the product you end up with is more stiff low strength glue and less stiff high strength fiber. So, when I see "Nano-Tube" I'm just thinking marketing hype of the same form composites were sold on in before they were well enough understood to be used to their best advantage.
I haven't kept my Composites Technology subscription current...so I also don't know what the state of the art is these days. Maybe Nano-Tubes are available in filiment length......but I seriously doubt it.
I was manager of the composites lab at 3TEX (www.3tex.com) for several years. I worked on stuff like Carbon-Carbon Valves, 3D braiding machines that could braid one piece carbon control arms, I designed large VARTM mold systems and even orchestrated the fabrication of the largest 3D woven composite in history. But that doesn't mean I know what Easton is claiming to sell.
Last I heard, Nano-Tubes weren't available in lengths greater than whisker-shavings. Their high theoretical strength was due to the fact that shorter fibers look better in strength tests (long fibers have more potential "bad-links" in their molecular chain). However, a composite material requires the longest fiber length possible in order to acheive any real strength, otherwise the product you end up with is more stiff low strength glue and less stiff high strength fiber. So, when I see "Nano-Tube" I'm just thinking marketing hype of the same form composites were sold on in before they were well enough understood to be used to their best advantage.
I haven't kept my Composites Technology subscription current...so I also don't know what the state of the art is these days. Maybe Nano-Tubes are available in filiment length......but I seriously doubt it.
Doh! It must have been a poor effort if an engineer turned business adviser took it seriously.ohio said:
Sorry, I just think it's a funny term because it *sounds* so darn UN-scientific, yet has a very precise meaning for engineers (much like stress, strain, strength, and stiffness which all are used in very pedestrian contexts by the rest of us)
Off to be unfunny elsewhere!
well those of you who said these new bars would be expensive - dead on!!
Looking at the new issue of Decline and they list these new EC70 Monkeylite DH bars as $150.
Looking at the new issue of Decline and they list these new EC70 Monkeylite DH bars as $150.
Bicycle Retailer had something about it...and it IS Carbon Nanontubes, not some marketing ploy
neversummersnow said:
read the first post of this thread
To be honest, a price range of $125-$150 is not at all bad for what you get. According to the hype people were prophecizing earlier in this thread you would have expected to see a pricetag of $1000 or more.
I think this technology is legit and the price is reasonable, if you don't think it is just buy alloy or "regular" carbon bars...
I think this technology is legit and the price is reasonable, if you don't think it is just buy alloy or "regular" carbon bars...
I'll let other people be the guinea pigs - Carbon bars on a DH bike scare me for some reason? I know they are strong and everything, but at the rate I crash, which most of the time is in rocks, I would have to replace them every month!punkassean said:
Not saying I won't even try some tho!
neaky: Might push myself to do it one of these days..
I totally agree that a new set of Protapers or EA70's every season is a cheap and safe solution (that's what I do for my DH bike) but for those looking for Nico style Bling and ultra-super-feather-light race parts...
I have zero qualms running carbon bars for "Nar*Kal X-Stuntry" riding.
I have zero qualms running carbon bars for "Nar*Kal X-Stuntry" riding.
Well i figure if any company in the bike industry can do it Easton is a safe bet. They dont just make bike parts things like there composite hockey sticks are the best around by far
Nanotechnology containing carbon is very possibly dangerous for the environment and the people using it, especially if the coating of the product is damaged and the carbon is exposed (to skin / environment). If broken and particles inhaled, they behave like asbestos.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=carbon-nanotube-danger
or
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-the-possible-dangers-of-nanotechnology.htm
Experts say the issue is that elements encountered at the nanoscale behave differently than their larger counterparts. As an example, graphite's properties are well known and it holds specific position in toxicology guidelines. Nobel winning physicist Richard Smalley of Rice University discovered carbon nanotubes and fullerenes (buckyballs) — nanoparticles of carbon — which are legally categorized as graphite, yet they behave in ways unlike graphite making the classification a potentially dangerous one.
Case in point: in March 2004 tests conducted by environmental toxicologist Eva Oberdörster, Ph.D., with Southern Methodist University in Texas found extensive brain damage to fish exposed to fullerenes for a period of just 48 hours at a relatively moderate dose of 0.5 parts per million (commiserate with levels of other kinds of pollution found in bays). The fish also exhibited changed gene markers in their livers, indicating their entire physiology was affected. In a concurrent test, the fullerenes killed water fleas, an important link in the marine food chain.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=carbon-nanotube-danger
or
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-the-possible-dangers-of-nanotechnology.htm
Experts say the issue is that elements encountered at the nanoscale behave differently than their larger counterparts. As an example, graphite's properties are well known and it holds specific position in toxicology guidelines. Nobel winning physicist Richard Smalley of Rice University discovered carbon nanotubes and fullerenes (buckyballs) — nanoparticles of carbon — which are legally categorized as graphite, yet they behave in ways unlike graphite making the classification a potentially dangerous one.
Case in point: in March 2004 tests conducted by environmental toxicologist Eva Oberdörster, Ph.D., with Southern Methodist University in Texas found extensive brain damage to fish exposed to fullerenes for a period of just 48 hours at a relatively moderate dose of 0.5 parts per million (commiserate with levels of other kinds of pollution found in bays). The fish also exhibited changed gene markers in their livers, indicating their entire physiology was affected. In a concurrent test, the fullerenes killed water fleas, an important link in the marine food chain.
So I was reading about how Easton new carbon fiber technology involving infusing resin and fiber with evenly distributed carbon nanotubes. They claim it's incredibly tough and stronger than steel.
Carbon experts? Thoughts on this?
http://www.bikebiz.co.uk/daily-news/article.php?id=4578
Last edited:
Woah. Necrothread.
