College is "worthless"
- Thread starter RayB
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This.
As long as it is an extension of HS, yes. What is now being taught in the first few years of college should have been taught in HS. People need to be allowed to fail, else everyone remaining be dragged down to the level of those who should be failing.
I'd love to see a list of the colleges that PIMCO hires from.
All the guys I just coached in HS mtn biking have graduated. I doubt any of them can work at my office in any capacity right now but after they graduate college, yes.
Could someone who spent age 18-21 doing whatever he wanted to, work at my office? Probably not.
Now could you take technical training and be qualified for certain professions? Sure. But would you rather be a lawyer than a paralegal? Even in my field of computers, you could learn how to be a basic pc admin or datacenter monkey, but not a programmer without the proper math skills.
Could someone who spent age 18-21 doing whatever he wanted to, work at my office? Probably not.
Now could you take technical training and be qualified for certain professions? Sure. But would you rather be a lawyer than a paralegal? Even in my field of computers, you could learn how to be a basic pc admin or datacenter monkey, but not a programmer without the proper math skills.
I still maintain that this is one area where Quebec has gotten it right.
Two things:
High school ends at grade 11. Then you do two years of CEGEP (a french acronym for something). But it like community college where you do your english classes, and social stuff....and of course any prerequisites for more sciencey stuff.....so you do this when you are say 17 or 18.
Then you go to actual university, where you ONLY do university level stuff.
Now on top of that, our drinking age is 18.
I firmly believe that shipping a (US age) high school grad off to college where the freedom from parents AND drinking is new to them....leads to what happens on college campuses in the US.
Here we spread it out a little. Most kids do CEGEP as an extension of high school....usually still living at home.....but also legally allowed to drink. So you get you "experimentation phase" out of the way....hopefully with the stern glares of your parents the next day. So you can actually learn how hold your liquor before you go off to conquer the world in a university setting.
I am obviously generalizing for effect a little......but I thing the US system puts too much to quickly on fresh new high school grads.........
And while I have no stats to back it up, I do think our system has resulted in fewer alcohol poisoning deaths and frat house gang rapes.....
Two things:
High school ends at grade 11. Then you do two years of CEGEP (a french acronym for something). But it like community college where you do your english classes, and social stuff....and of course any prerequisites for more sciencey stuff.....so you do this when you are say 17 or 18.
Then you go to actual university, where you ONLY do university level stuff.
Now on top of that, our drinking age is 18.
I firmly believe that shipping a (US age) high school grad off to college where the freedom from parents AND drinking is new to them....leads to what happens on college campuses in the US.
Here we spread it out a little. Most kids do CEGEP as an extension of high school....usually still living at home.....but also legally allowed to drink. So you get you "experimentation phase" out of the way....hopefully with the stern glares of your parents the next day. So you can actually learn how hold your liquor before you go off to conquer the world in a university setting.
I am obviously generalizing for effect a little......but I thing the US system puts too much to quickly on fresh new high school grads.........
And while I have no stats to back it up, I do think our system has resulted in fewer alcohol poisoning deaths and frat house gang rapes.....
Why does Canada hate freedom so much?
Not saying I completely agree with what Bill Gross has to say, but I do agree with the overriding theme of our "higher education" system being completely over-commoditized and awash with idiots who will ultimately see little-to-no value-added.
I, myself, cherish my college education because I studied things that are applicable and would be very difficult to learn outside the classroom of an elite university. And thus, I am gainfully employed as a result.
If I could go back in time, however, I would not have wasted all that $$$ (which I now have to pay back to the Feds) on the first couple years of lower-division coursework. Zero value-added IMHO.
Btw, San Juro... where do you work? (I'm over in SF too)
Me too.
The article need to make a differentiation between College and A Degree. But in my experience, neither of those things were/are worthless.
needz moar gunz
wow , I actually agree with MMike
Unless it changed from 6 years ago when I checked Canadian universities including Montreal it is not 100% true. Doing my classes in the ib diploma high school program Id be exempt from Computer Science 1st year, Maths 1 year and I think Phisics also. Though I have to say IB diploma requires more work than sanding Armstrong to the moon so it is a bit arguing for the point of arguing.
As for colledge/degree worthless I will quote my friend who does his doctorate from CS on Imperial College - Univiersity is like an extended vacation. Chicks partyy and so on. You only learn once in a while so why go to work.
The sad thing is in many areas it is true. You learn more by yourself.
btw. For drinking problems send your kids to Poland. The legal age is 18 but most people start at ~14-15. I know some people who just stopped drinking at all at 20. Solves the problem in a kinda stupid way.
No you are incorrect.
Perhaps it is different for foreign students that did not go through the CEGEP system. As CEGEP is where you do all of your pre-requisites.
But for someone local, what I said is 100% accurate.
College= a great opportunity to hook up with many hot women in a relatively confined geographic area.
What is Conan who said something like it will get you ahead of the 6% who do not have a college degree 
College is what you make of it. If you are smart about it Collage will help you have a good career if you are not then its a waste of money. I think its that simple.
College is what you make of it. If you are smart about it Collage will help you have a good career if you are not then its a waste of money. I think its that simple.
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After the great no child left behind scam, it isn't a shock that college is not about getting smart, it is about trying and paying and you will graduate.
I have worked for and know a few sheeple with degrees that make you want to stab them self for the lack of intelligence they have.
I have worked for and know a few sheeple with degrees that make you want to stab them self for the lack of intelligence they have.
what?
indeed.
in his defense....i think english is his second or third language...You must have worn a beer helmet the whole time that you were there considering that you did not learn how to spell college.
He he - not that college is where you learn how to spellYou must have worn a beer helmet the whole time that you were there considering that you did not learn how to spell college.
Something like that which Jeremy knows but that does not stop him from pointing out my mistakes
Besides Danish I speak German too.
Can we change this thread to "Libral arts degrees and MBA's are useless"? This is clearly written by a guy who avoided the sciency side of campus where people do more than party and cram.
I never let facts get in the way of a joke.
Plus, CBJ knows me well. He had to take out a restraining order on me when I kept mailing him deposits even though he no longer worked at "the bank."
Plus, CBJ knows me well. He had to take out a restraining order on me when I kept mailing him deposits even though he no longer worked at "the bank."
Degrees are not always necessary but to obtain certain positions you have to have access to some privileged situations. My cousin works as an engineer without a degree but that is because of my Uncle taught him quite a bit and used his influence to get him a job.
The big problem is that it is very hard for an 18 year to really figure out what they are good at and what they want to do. Because of that a lot of people end up getting generic Bull**** degrees that are worthless.
The big problem is that it is very hard for an 18 year to really figure out what they are good at and what they want to do. Because of that a lot of people end up getting generic Bull**** degrees that are worthless.
Also a good argument for the CEGEP system.
I knew I wanted to do something sciency. But I went in thinking I wanted to go into medicine, but came out wanting to do engineering. But at that level, all the basic science pre-reqs are the same. (with the exception of an extra biology class i think). So you don't have to commit to a major at 18. (which I know you don't always have to do anyway....but still)
That article is actually less about college being worthless . . . and more about where global "free trade" policies have gotten us.
He is exactly right that the interests of Wall Street (cheap labor, profits for capital) and the interests of Main Street (plentiful middle class jobs) have never been aligned.
"It is clear, however, that neither party has an awareness of the why or the wherefores of how to put America back to work again. Few economic advisors from either party ever mention structural long-term disconnects in employment – a recognition that cyclical influences will no longer dominate the U.S. labor market. Manufacturing and goods exports have ceded enormous ground to China and other developing labor markets, "
The USA has been shipping jobs overseas for decades, and now it's starting to hurt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_trade
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That whole paragraph is fundamentally flawed. Competing with China for manufacturing jobs is more or less a loosing battle. In terms of labor they have us beat hands down. We need to focus on competing with China where it is weak.
We need to ensure that the US is a technological innovator not a labor market. Grad rates in scientific and technical fields need to increase.
The great thing about being paid for ideas and expertise (rather than resources or products) is that you never run out!
This is exactly where I am right now.
Some of my friends have degrees, none of them are really "using" them, they just went because it was expected of them. I started, but realized I was wasting money because I really didn't have any idea of what I wanted to do or where I wanted to go.
I've been working since I was little, at 27 I have 11 years of working in offices. Is that where I want to stay? I don't know. I tried to switch jobs recently, to a manufacturing, more hands-on type of job (building a/c kits for cars) and I realized very quickly that I have zero interest in that kind of job.
So now I'm trying to figure out where I want to go in life, whether I should go back to school, or just keep working these low-paying jobs.
Tax. Writeoff.
FANTASTIC! Thanks for this.
Networking. The education is relatively all the same. Its who you meet along the way that is the most beneficial. For example this is what makes Ivy League vs public schools worth it; being able to establish contacts with the wealthy, especially if you are poor.
Speaking of Zerohedge, it worked well for Lloyd Blankfein...
Why a college though? Plenty of other options to donate for tax writeoffs....charities, communities, etc.
aw man and I thought studying mechanical engineering would make me relevant.
Too many kids and parents treat college like an accomplishment instead of a TOOL. Which is all it is.
I know what you mean . . . but you're accepting the premise that American blue-collar workers should have to compete with Chinese blue-collar workers. Global labor market competition is not "natural." It's the direct result of our trade policy with China.
Telling blue collar workers to go to college to become retrained to be white-collar-knowledge-economy-professionals who supervise off-shored factories in Mexico, India, and China.... just aint gonna cut it as public policy. But that is exactly what's going on right now.
Other people have said similar things, but much better than I can.
See some of the response comments to this article:
http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2010/06/trade_0
I was searching for upcoming DVD releases and came across this
Probably 'cause that "donation" money was ultimately funneled into the hands of friends, or *gasp* an endowment fund managed by... PIMCO.
Honestly, who knows. But really... 90+% of the money that the uber-wealthy donate is strictly to reduce tax exposure. Let's be real... if our tax code wasn't 1,500+ pages, there wouldn't be a $30 BILLION accounting industry (conservative estimate), nor would there be the incentive to work the system with non-sense such as "charitable" donations.