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College Students Rebel against Biased Liberal Professors

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
Strange days are these............


Students Rebel against Biased Liberal Professors
AP | 12/27/2004 | JUSTIN POPE

Traditionally, clashes over academic freedom have pitted politicians or administrators against instructors who wanted to express their opinions and teach as they saw fit. But increasingly, it is students who are invoking academic freedom, claiming biased professors are violating their right to a classroom free from indoctrination.

For example, at the University of North Carolina, three incoming freshmen sued over a reading assignment they said offended their Christian beliefs.

In Colorado and Indiana, a national conservative group publicized student allegations of left-wing bias by professors. Faculty received hate mail and were pictured in mock "wanted" posters; at least one college said teacher received a death threat.

And at Columbia University in New York, a documentary film alleging that teachers intimidate students who support Israel drew the attention of administrators.

The three episodes differ in important ways, but all touch on an issue of growing prominence on college campuses.

In many ways, the trend echoes past campus conflicts — but turns them around. Once, it was liberal campus activists who cited the importance of "diversity" in pressing their agendas for curriculum change. Now, conservatives have adopted much of the same language in calling for a greater openness to their viewpoints.

Similarly, academic freedom guidelines have traditionally been cited to protect left-leaning students from punishment for disagreeing with teachers about such issues as American neutrality before World War II and U.S. involvement in Vietnam. Now, conservative students who support the liberation of Iraq are invoking those same guidelines.

To many professors, there's a new and deeply troubling aspect to this latest chapter in the debate over academic freedom: students trying to dictate what they don't want to be taught.

"Even the most contentious or disaffected of students in the '60s or early '70s never really pressed this kind of issue," said Robert O'Neil, former president of the University of Virginia and now director of the Thomas Jefferson Center for the Protection of Free Expression.

Those behind the trend call it an antidote to the overwhelming liberal dominance of university faculties. But many educators, while agreeing students should never feel bullied, worry that they just want to avoid exposure to ideas that challenge their core beliefs — an essential part of education.

Some also fear teachers will shy away from sensitive topics, or fend off criticism by "balancing" their syllabuses with opposing viewpoints, even if they represent inferior scholarship.

"Faculty retrench. They are less willing to discuss contemporary problems and I think everyone loses out," said Joe Losco, a professor of political science at Ball State University in Indiana who has supported two colleagues targeted for alleged bias. "It puts a chill in the air."

Conservatives say a chill is in order.

A recent study by Santa Clara University researcher Daniel Klein estimated that among social science and humanities faculty members nationwide, Democrats outnumber Republicans by at least seven to one; in some fields it's as high as 30 to one. And in the last election, the two employers whose workers contributed the most to Sen. John Kerry's presidential campaign were the University of California system and Harvard University.

Many teachers insist personal politics don't affect teaching. But in a recent survey of students at 50 top schools by the American Council of Trustees and Alumni, a group that has argued there is too little intellectual diversity on campuses, 49 percent reported at least some professors frequently commented on politics in class even if it was outside the subject matter.

Thirty-one percent said they felt there were some courses in which they needed to agree with a professor's political or social views to get a good grade.

Leading the movement is the group Students for Academic Freedom, with chapters on 135 campuses and close ties to David Horowitz, a one-time liberal campus activist turned conservative commentator. The group posts student complaints on its Web site about alleged episodes of grading bias and unbalanced, anti-American propaganda by professors — often in classes, such as literature, in which it's off-topic.

Instructors "need to make students aware of the spectrum of scholarly opinion," Horowitz said. "You can't get a good education if you're only getting half the story."

Conservatives claim they are discouraged from expressing their views in class, and are even blackballed from graduate school slots and jobs.

"I feel like (faculty) are so disconnected from students that they do these things and they can just get away with them," said Kris Wampler, who recently publicly identified himself as one of the students who sued the University of North Carolina. Now a junior, he objected when all incoming students were assigned to read a book about the Quran before they got to campus.

"A lot of students feel like they're being discriminated against," he said.

So far, his and other efforts are having mixed results. At UNC, the students lost their legal case, but the university no longer uses the word "required" in describing the reading program for incoming students (the plaintiffs' main objection).

In Colorado, conservatives withdrew a legislative proposal for an "academic bill of rights" backed by Horowitz, but only after state universities agreed to adopt its principles.

At Ball State, the school's provost sided with Professor George Wolfe after a student published complaints about Wolfe's peace studies course, but the episode has attracted local attention. Horowitz and backers of the academic bill of rights plan to introduce it in the Indiana legislature — as well as in up to 20 other states.

At Columbia, anguished debate followed the screening of a film by an advocacy group called The David Project that alleges some faculty violate students' rights by using the classroom as a platform for anti-Israeli political propaganda (one Israeli student claims a professor taunted him by asking, "How many Palestinians did you kill?"). Administrators responded this month by setting up a new committee to investigate students’ complaints.

In the wider debate, both sides cite the guidelines on academic freedom first set out in 1915 by the American Association of University Professors.

The objecting students emphasize the portion calling on teachers to "set forth justly ... the divergent opinions of other investigators." But many teachers note the guidelines also say instructors need not "hide (their) own opinions under a mountain of equivocal verbiage," and that their job is teaching students "to think for themselves."

Horowitz believes the AAUP, which opposes his bill of rights, and liberals in general are now the establishment and have abandoned their commitment to real diversity and student rights.

But critics say Horowitz is pushing a political agenda, not an academic one.

"It's often phrased in the language of academic freedom. That's what's so strange about it," said Ellen Schrecker, a Yeshiva University historian who has written about academic freedom during the McCarthy area. "What they're saying is, 'We want people to reflect our point of view.'"

Horowitz's critics also insist his campaign is getting more attention than it deserves, riling conservative bloggers but attracting little alarm from most students. They insist even most liberal professors give fair grades to conservative students who work hard and support their arguments.

Often, the facts of particular cases are disputed. At Ball State, senior Brett Mock published a detailed account accusing Wolfe of anti-Americanism in a peace studies class and of refusing to tolerate the view that the U.S. invasion of Iraq might have been justified. In a telephone interview, Wolfe vigorously disputed Mock's allegations. He provided copies of a letter of support from other students in the class, and from the provost saying she had found nothing wrong with the course.

Horowitz, who has also criticized Ball State's program, had little sympathy when asked if Wolfe deserved to get hate e-mails from strangers.

"These people are such sissies," he said. "I get hate mail every single day. What can I do about it? It's called the Internet."
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
22,202
1,390
NC
If the teachers are actually discriminating based on political beliefs - that is, those students are doing equal work and getting lesser grades - then that's a valid complaint.

The rest of this nonsense is mostly hypersensitive, politically minded students who think that somehow teachers should be completely objective. That's absurd - teachers should, of course, teach the facts, but the students are allowed to hold opinions, why not the teachers?

Just because Mock had a political argument with Wolfe, and Wolfe didn't concede the point, somehow Mock is being descriminated against? Suck it up, princess, the world is a rough place and sometimes people don't agree with you. As long as Wolfe respects the stundent's right to hold his own opinion, and it has no affect on the student's grades, then Mock is being as intolerant as he claims Wolfe is.

Obviously, not all the facts can be presented in an article of this type, and if there is actual discrimination going on, that is something that needs to be addressed. It sounds to me like most of this is a bunch of crying students who think it's just the worst thing in the world that the teacher isn't an objective, unthinking machine.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
56,403
22,487
Sleazattle
Faculty received hate mail and were pictured in mock "wanted" posters; at least one college said teacher received a death threat.
This is obviously a case of left wing liberal elite vs your average middle of the road student. :think:
 

Jr_Bullit

I'm sooo teenie weenie!!!
Sep 8, 2001
2,028
1
North of Oz
Wow....

Heaven forbid a university actually try and educate students and broaden their understanding of the world in which they intend to live...:rolleyes:

How awfully uncomfortable it must be for those hardcore christian conservatives to have to read information about the quran and maybe learn a little bit more about other people's core belief systems.
 

Slugman

Frankenbike
Apr 29, 2004
4,024
0
Miami, FL
Intolerance of ideas, attaching labels in order to discredit and demean people, and death threats; sounds like Germany in the late '30s...
 

clancy98

Monkey
Dec 6, 2004
758
0
Jr_Bullit said:
Wow....

Heaven forbid a university actually try and educate students and broaden their understanding of the world in which they intend to live...:rolleyes:
Original Post said:
...And in the last election, the two employers whose workers contributed the most to Sen. John Kerry's presidential campaign were the University of California system and Harvard University...
Sure, its all about the education and diversity....

But maybe you missed that part of the article because it was wacko conservative christian biased.
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
22,202
1,390
NC
clancy98 said:
Sure, its all about the education and diversity....

But maybe you missed that part of the article because it was wacko conservative christian biased.
So, what's your point? That teachers have political opinions?

That little factoid is completely pointless. So what? So maybe the employees of colleges tend to be more liberal and are more likely to contribute to a democrat's campaign. Who gives a rat's ass?
 

clancy98

Monkey
Dec 6, 2004
758
0
binary visions said:
So, what's your point? That teachers have political opinions?
Yep. and the correct term is agenda, and reading your post makes me think you have never encountered a teacher with a differing opinion than yours.

So let me give you an example. When I was in college, I had a composition class with a teacher that was a staunch feminist, which happens to be a group of people that I disagree with on most points. Our "textbook" was called "Gender Images"... Mind you I've never gotten less than a B in any sort of lit or composition class I've ever taken, in my entire life. Well after two weeks in her class I was failing, without missing ANY of the work. I for one don't think a teacher's bias should affect student's grades. Maybe you think different.

Thats how it matters, and thats how you're wrong.

agenda.
 

Jr_Bullit

I'm sooo teenie weenie!!!
Sep 8, 2001
2,028
1
North of Oz
clancy98 said:
Yep. and the correct term is agenda, and reading your post makes me think you have never encountered a teacher with a differing opinion than yours.

So let me give you an example. When I was in college, I had a composition class with a teacher that was a staunch feminist, which happens to be a group of people that I disagree with on most points. Our "textbook" was called "Gender Images"... Mind you I've never gotten less than a B in any sort of lit or composition class I've ever taken, in my entire life. Well after two weeks in her class I was failing, without missing ANY of the work. I for one don't think a teacher's bias should affect student's grades. Maybe you think different.

Thats how it matters, and thats how you're wrong.

agenda.
Wow - looks to me like someone here has a chip on his shoulder. Teachers are people too, and good teachers do their best to teach a well rounded subject. Are they biased? Sure they are, but most universities keep a pretty tight reign on what they can teach.
Can a teacher have a different viewpoint than the students, hells ya..that's the point. You go right ahead and enjoy dragging women around by their hair or whatever if you like, but it helps to justify your point or opinion if you understand a little of the other side and have a broader world perspective than a tiny little box.

Most teachers will give you a good grade if you challenge their "viewpoints" or agenda as you so nicely put it, in a professional and educated manner. Whereas if you rail against the machine with little understanding, education, or comprehension of the rest of the argument, you come off as the type of buffoon most liberals Love to make fun of (and same goes for the other side, Liberals can often be just as narrow minded in their defense of being liberals).
 

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
40,228
9,113
clancy98 said:
When I was in college, I had a composition class with a teacher that was a staunch feminist [...] Mind you I've never gotten less than a B in any sort of lit or composition class I've ever taken, in my entire life. Well after two weeks in her class I was failing, without missing ANY of the work. I for one don't think a teacher's bias should affect student's grades.
maybe you simply can't write a good composition on feminist topics. :rolleyes:
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
I had lots of professors with differing opinions than my own...however, I never got marked down on papers if I SUPPORTED a view.

When you look at what the conservative movement uses as "support" these days, it's no wonder these guys are complaining.
 

manimal

Ociffer Tackleberry
Feb 27, 2002
7,213
22
Blindly running into cactus
well, after having gone several different routes to obtain my education; military, college.....marriage :D ......I have come to the conclusion that college is just a place for financially fortunate whiny punks of all "agendas" to get together and point fingers. No, i'm not a traditional student, i decided to vacation and study other cultures in many countries (with a gun and uniform:D) before i ventured out into the collegiate world. but to say that i've been enlightened or that my "tiny box" has expanded because some professor, who's never left his own soil, read a scholarly article and regurgitated for me....well, that would be a lie.
if these kids (by kids, i mean both libs and conservs) want to whine about something, they'll find a way. it's what you're supposed to do in college, pretend to be oppressed.....but soon, they'll hit the real world and realize that no one really cares.
 

chicodude

The Spooninator
Mar 28, 2004
1,054
2
Paradise
manimal said:
pretend to be oppressed.....but soon, they'll hit the real world and realize that no one really cares.


Really? I see people in the "Real World" pretending to be oppressed all the time.......
 

fluff

Monkey Turbo
Sep 8, 2001
5,673
2
Feeling the lag
clancy98 said:
Sure, its all about the education and diversity....

Quote:
...And in the last election, the two employers whose workers contributed the most to Sen. John Kerry's presidential campaign were the University of California system and Harvard University...


But maybe you missed that part of the article because it was wacko conservative christian biased.
I wonder which employers' workers contributed the most to Bush's campaign?
I wonder if that is a democratic right that should be defended for both parties?
I wonder if you froth at the mouth when you type?
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
22,202
1,390
NC
clancy98 said:
Yep. and the correct term is agenda, and reading your post makes me think you have never encountered a teacher with a differing opinion than yours.
Oh for Christ's sake... "Agenda" - okay, call it an agenda. Hey, did you know that applying a different word to something doesn't change what it is?

Oh, and yes, you're right: I've never had a teacher whose opinions were different from my own. Not once. :rolleyes:

So let me give you an example. <snip> Well after two weeks in her class I was failing, without missing ANY of the work. I for one don't think a teacher's bias should affect student's grades. Maybe you think different.
Are you simply trying to be as confrontational as possible? Yes, yes, I definitly think that sudent's grades should be affected by teacher bias. You got it. Go back and read the first post in this thread after N8's.

Sure, it's possible that the teacher graded you lower based on your beliefs. It's also entirely possible that she had a different set of grading standards from your other lit and comp classes, and you simply wrote what were, in her opinion, poor essays.

Thats how it matters, and thats how you're wrong.

agenda.
You're a little bitter about this class, aren't you?

I think my first post clarified this point just fine, but since you didn't seem to bother to read it, let me re-iterate:

It is BAD when a teacher takes off points simply due to a disagreement with a student's political views.

However, people like to whine. A lot. Despite the fact that I'm sure there are legitimate complaints on the subject, a lot of this article appeared to me to be whining simply because a teacher wasn't willing to agree with the opinions of some students' political agendas. That doesn't mean they were graded based on these conflicting opinions - unless you read something in that article that I didn't. "Feeling" like they have to agree with the professor to get graded fairly doesn't exactly scream "objective evidence".
 

Jr_Bullit

I'm sooo teenie weenie!!!
Sep 8, 2001
2,028
1
North of Oz
manimal said:
but to say that i've been enlightened or that my "tiny box" has expanded because some professor, who's never left his own soil, read a scholarly article and regurgitated for me....well, that would be a lie.
Wow, and here all this time I was of the completely mistaken opinion that a good education teaches one how to form their own opinion and encourages people to read up more on the subject to defend either their own current opinion (agenda was the term used previously :rolleyes: ) or expand their knowledge and learn a little bit about the other side. If your "tiny box" didn't grow at all while in college, or in a class, I'd have to say it's because you walked in jaded and closed minded.

What's the saying? About the horse and water? Someone...please...refresh my memory here :p
 

DRB

unemployed bum
Oct 24, 2002
15,242
0
Watchin' you. Writing it all down.
manimal said:
well, after having gone several different routes to obtain my education; military, college.....marriage :D ......I have come to the conclusion that college is just a place for financially fortunate whiny punks of all "agendas" to get together and point fingers. No, i'm not a traditional student, i decided to vacation and study other cultures in many countries (with a gun and uniform:D) before i ventured out into the collegiate world. but to say that i've been enlightened or that my "tiny box" has expanded because some professor, who's never left his own soil, read a scholarly article and regurgitated for me....well, that would be a lie.
if these kids (by kids, i mean both libs and conservs) want to whine about something, they'll find a way. it's what you're supposed to do in college, pretend to be oppressed.....but soon, they'll hit the real world and realize that no one really cares.
pot kettle BLACK.
 

pnj

Turbo Monkey till the fat lady sings
Aug 14, 2002
4,696
40
seattle
Ok, I'm a little bit slow sometimes so someone help me out here.

a couple of students signed up for a class and the professor gave them an assignment, to read a book. some of the students are offended by the book, so they are sueing the college?
 

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
40,228
9,113
the original post is apparently straight from the gop talking points. i saw an identical post from another frother cut 'n paster on a different message board that i frequent.

:rolleyes:
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
56,403
22,487
Sleazattle
pnj said:
Ok, I'm a little bit slow sometimes so someone help me out here.

a couple of students signed up for a class and the professor gave them an assignment, to read a book. some of the students are offended by the book, so they are sueing the college?
I had to read the bible for a freshman lit class. I just realized that it hase caused me 11 years of distress fearing my father would sacrifice me, getting turned into a pillar of salt and that a great flood would wipe out the world. I am going to sue!!
 

pnj

Turbo Monkey till the fat lady sings
Aug 14, 2002
4,696
40
seattle
Westy said:
.....and that a great flood would wipe out the world....

body count is at 80,000.

but seriously, is what I asked above basicly what the issue is? someone doesn't want to do an assignment that the professor gave them? (obviously we can't know more then is written but my reading skills suck so I'm looking to the more edumacated monkeys to answer this)
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
1. There is a very liberal bias at most colleges (Oral Roberts and Bob Jones Unversities, you can sit down now).

2. It is funny to me. I mostly live in liberal areas (San Fran, for example), but I have conservative friends, and I have had long discussions on hot-button topics like abortion, gay rights, and race. While we usually disagree, if I was to discuss these topics with my liberal friends, I damn better toe that liberal line.

3. After reading that tract a few times, I am not sure where the politics come into it. Maybe with the Peace Studies professor vs. Conservative Student, but I am not sure what is the liberal standpoint on Israel is now. Is it for killing more Arabs or more Israelis?

4. The Koran is a book. The UNC students' only complaint should have been where is the Bible and the Talmud on my reading list?
 

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
sanjuro said:
3. After reading that tract a few times, I am not sure where the politics come into it. Maybe with the Peace Studies professor vs. Conservative Student, but I am not sure what is the liberal standpoint on Israel is now. Is it for killing more Arabs or more Israelis?
LOL, that was good. :nope: :D First post on the PD? Welcome anyway. :)
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
valve bouncer said:
LOL, that was good. :nope: :D First post on the PD? Welcome anyway. :)
Thanks. I was avoiding the non-biking forums (although I did like the one about this kid asking his girlfriend to dress better), but this falls right up my alley about liberals vs. conservatives, a thin line I have chosen to walk...
 

manimal

Ociffer Tackleberry
Feb 27, 2002
7,213
22
Blindly running into cactus
Jr_Bullit said:
Wow, and here all this time I was of the completely mistaken opinion that a good education teaches one how to form their own opinion and encourages people to read up more on the subject to defend either their own current opinion (agenda was the term used previously :rolleyes: ) or expand their knowledge and learn a little bit about the other side. If your "tiny box" didn't grow at all while in college, or in a class, I'd have to say it's because you walked in jaded and closed minded.

What's the saying? About the horse and water? Someone...please...refresh my memory here :p
you missed my point completely. i was only pointing out that college didn't teach me anything about places i've been and people i've met.....that i didn't already know. you're assuming that i have a closed minded view on the world because i didn't have any value added by going to these classes, what i'm telling you is that some professor, reading out of a book, doesn't teach me anything about the world that i've seen first hand....and i'm not talking about the tourists spots.
yes, i have gained quite a bit of knowlege at school in many subjects, especially history...but in the context of this thread where professors/students were arguing over world politics....i was only stating the point that these people are arguing over something they only read about in a book or saw on the news. how many of these professors/students have acutally been to the places they are arguing/protesting about and know what it's like for the people of that place?

that is why the "real world" laughs when the "enlightened collegiate" try to make a scene and protest........no one really cares. do you really think that a bunch of priveledged kids walking around carrying signs will change anyone's opinion?
 

Ridemonkey

This is not an active account
Sep 18, 2002
4,108
1
Toronto, Canada
I'm not sure what you mean about "financially fortunate whiny punks"? I paid for, and am still paying for, my college education. Can you please enlighten me as to how I am financially fortunate?

You are right that the kids mentioned in this article are whiny punks. I say kick them out of the U and make them get real jobs.

However, every time there is a thread about college you show up and spout this same BS. What exactly is the problem?

manimal said:
well, after having gone several different routes to obtain my education; military, college.....marriage :D ......I have come to the conclusion that college is just a place for financially fortunate whiny punks of all "agendas" to get together and point fingers. No, i'm not a traditional student, i decided to vacation and study other cultures in many countries (with a gun and uniform:D) before i ventured out into the collegiate world. but to say that i've been enlightened or that my "tiny box" has expanded because some professor, who's never left his own soil, read a scholarly article and regurgitated for me....well, that would be a lie.
if these kids (by kids, i mean both libs and conservs) want to whine about something, they'll find a way. it's what you're supposed to do in college, pretend to be oppressed.....but soon, they'll hit the real world and realize that no one really cares.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
56,403
22,487
Sleazattle
manimal said:
that is why the "real world" laughs when the "enlightened collegiate" try to make a scene and protest........no one really cares. do you really think that a bunch of priveledged kids walking around carrying signs will change anyone's opinion?

You do realize this thread is about students "protesting" against their liberal college proffessors?

Protesters suck anyway. I blame the Continental Congress for starting it all. that just led to women whining and whining until they were alowed to vote. Then you had all those WWI veterans protesting during the depression, slackers. Then all these minorities start marching demanding equal rights, when will it ever end.
 

manimal

Ociffer Tackleberry
Feb 27, 2002
7,213
22
Blindly running into cactus
Ridemonkey said:
I'm not sure what you mean about "financially fortunate whiny punks"? I paid for, and am still paying for, my college education. Can you please enlighten me as to how I am financially fortunate?

You are right that the kids mentioned in this article are whiny punks. I say kick them out of the U and make them get real jobs.

However, every time there is a thread about college you show up and spout this same BS. What exactly is the problem?
sorry, the "whiny punk" label is not aimed at those that went and worked their way through...as i am doing myself, and if i offended you i am sorry as you have earned my respect through many a thread. it only comes up when we're discussing the elite protesters found on many a campus. the demographics of most of these "whiners" are young, parentally funded and unemployed students that have yet to experience the reality of adult life through work and travel, yet they think that those of us that have worked and experienced things they have yet to imagine should listen to their rantings as if they have something new to report.
if you worked your way through college you probably didn't have time to get caught up in this nonsense and you'd be better for it.

and no, i'm not implying that you're a whiny punk if your parents paid for your school. just trying to make a point that a college degree is nothing but a piece of paper.
 

manimal

Ociffer Tackleberry
Feb 27, 2002
7,213
22
Blindly running into cactus
Westy said:
You do realize this thread is about students "protesting" against their liberal college proffessors?

Protesters suck anyway. I blame the Continental Congress for starting it all.

uh, did you read my very first post? i am grouping libs and conservs into one group on this. i'm simply talking about college protesters, regardless of political siding.
 

Jr_Bullit

I'm sooo teenie weenie!!!
Sep 8, 2001
2,028
1
North of Oz
manimal said:
you missed my point completely. i was only pointing out that college didn't teach me anything about places i've been and people i've met.....that i didn't already know. you're assuming that i have a closed minded view on the world because i didn't have any value added by going to these classes, what i'm telling you is that some professor, reading out of a book, doesn't teach me anything about the world that i've seen first hand....and i'm not talking about the tourists spots.
yes, i have gained quite a bit of knowlege at school in many subjects, especially history...but in the context of this thread where professors/students were arguing over world politics....i was only stating the point that these people are arguing over something they only read about in a book or saw on the news. how many of these professors/students have acutally been to the places they are arguing/protesting about and know what it's like for the people of that place?

that is why the "real world" laughs when the "enlightened collegiate" try to make a scene and protest........no one really cares. do you really think that a bunch of priveledged kids walking around carrying signs will change anyone's opinion?

No - I don't think I did miss your point. Education does come in a lot of forms, school of hard knocks, college, professional development, etc etc. However, if you "Choose" to go to college/university, then you are "choosing" to learn more than what your daily life can bring you through experience.

I do agree that most students who graduate are "book learned" only, and rarely have any practical experience for the real world. Especially those who were given a free ride by family or fortune, and thus take their education for granted. I also agree that those students who take their education for granted, also fall into the category of "whiny punk kids" who have been well provided for throughout life, and feel they should protest anything that may contradict their own personal, limited, and currently uneducated world views.

As for profs not having experience? I'm not sure what type of university you went to, or are going to, but in the two universities I attended (one a state school, one a private "liberal" hoity toity school), all of the professors had some experience in the field and relating to the subjects that they taught. In general, their curriculum was based around their own life experiences, because only they can teach that best. Please note, this does not apply to general education courses all students must take in their first or second year in order to achieve the "well rounded" education they are supposed to. :rolleyes: those courses are designed to get kids off on the right foot, and are, in general, heavily book-laden courses to get you through the basics and start to teach some necessary critical thinking skills before advancing into the more complex subjects that will make up the bulk of your degree.

Your statement that "college didn't teach me anything about the places I've already been"...no kidding eh? maybe that's when you should use that experience to help further others in your class and make the class all the more entertaining. My favorite courses in college were generally when the students had some experience in the area being discussed and could then put in their own anecdotal evidence for or against what the prof was teaching - this also gives the prof leverage to expand upon their point, or take your point into consideration and make the class all the more enlightening to everyone else. And who knows...maybe...if you exercise a little give and take and don't shut off the brain the moment the prof mentions a location you've been to, you might still learn a little more, or add greater value to the experiences you claim have taught you more than your teachers.
 
manimal said:
...just trying to make a point that a college degree is nothing but a piece of paper.
So is the paper one gets coming out of a police academy. Some people make good use of what is offered and some don't. I can't say as the time or my own money I spent at Northeastern was wasted.

I do think that gaining some real world experience prior to college is a very good idea.

J
 

Kornphlake

Turbo Monkey
Oct 8, 2002
2,632
1
Portland, OR
Velocity Girl said:
All this would be solved if y'all just stayed out of the liberal arts classes!

You can't really argue that 2+2=4!! :p

Exactly what I was thinking.

I took a few classes, including all my lit and history requirements at a local community college that didn't really pretend any political affiliation. I then transferred to BYU which you can guess has a pretty strong religious base and well above a 95% conservative population among both students and faculty. You know what I noticed? I didn't find one course where the material was objectionable to myself at either school, at BYU I was primarily working toward my major in engineering so there were no heated political debates, nobody will argue the laws of physics based on emotions. At the community college I was surrounded by displaced homemakers (read 30 something divorcees who spent more time trying to get child support from their ex than doing homework), being one of a few dozen 18 year olds was intimidating, but I did take opportunites to voice my young opinion and I was met with respect from both my classmates and professors.

If you can't figure out how to voice your opinions eloquently then don't be suprised when others don't accept them. You have to learn how to make your opinions simply an opinion and not an insult, that's really what college is about. Most political as well as religious arguments are largely based on somebody making an insensitive remark about a sensitive topic.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
Kornphlake said:
Exactly what I was thinking.

I took a few classes, including all my lit and history requirements at a local community college that didn't really pretend any political affiliation. I then transferred to BYU which you can guess has a pretty strong religious base and well above a 95% conservative population among both students and faculty. You know what I noticed? I didn't find one course where the material was objectionable to myself at either school, at BYU I was primarily working toward my major in engineering so there were no heated political debates, nobody will argue the laws of physics based on emotions. At the community college I was surrounded by displaced homemakers (read 30 something divorcees who spent more time trying to get child support from their ex than doing homework), being one of a few dozen 18 year olds was intimidating, but I did take opportunites to voice my young opinion and I was met with respect from both my classmates and professors.

If you can't figure out how to voice your opinions eloquently then don't be suprised when others don't accept them. You have to learn how to make your opinions simply an opinion and not an insult, that's really what college is about. Most political as well as religious arguments are largely based on somebody making an insensitive remark about a sensitive topic.
A lot of colleges is what you make of it. The only two discussions we had in my CompSci classes was how to solve this equation, and how drunk we were going to get afterwards. Most of my political discussions came from friends, who frankly, thought pretty much like I did.

Mostly, I learned how to think clearly about my political views and voice them as well. I think college might have taught me a subject, but it also exposed me to a wide selection of people, something I would not have gotten working at BK and living at home.

But someone else at my college, a State U, could have gone there and gotten his degree, and learned nothing about politics and people. It is what you make of it.

School selection has something to do with it. You could go to Hampshire (so liberal you make up your own coursework with no grading) or Bob Jones (taken from their home page: "BJU stands without apology for the old-time religion and the absolute authority of the Bible"), and you get what you get. State colleges give the best mix of people, imho, and usually the teachers in any subject avoid too much religion and politics.

Also keep in mind this article is focusing on the sensational. Really, most classes come and go and the only controversy is the grades.