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Complete Guide to Downhill Rubber

Discussion in 'Downhill & Freeride' started by zdubyadubya, Jun 10, 2011.

  1. slimshady

    slimshady ¡Mira, una ardilla!

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    You are totally missing the flabergast percentage of added shredding capabilities dude!

    Remember, Spesh has to innovate or die, that's their motto.
     
    #881 -   Aug 12, 2016
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  2. kidwoo

    kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    So they'll be dead soon?
     
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  3. landcruiser

    landcruiser Monkey

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    If you notice the out of focus portion of the Hotpatch that says "Gripton" you can infer that the new Butcher uses all new Specialized developed compounds. The tread pattern updates were meant to be subtle but unique to draw attention to overall tire updates. It's supposed to be a "new" tire that doesn't mess with what worked in the old tire.

    Sizing is also meant to be different than the old 2.5's. If all went to plan, they should be everything the Enduro guys were asking us for, but I had to leave before any samples arrived. I have no first hand knowledge of how they're working out size or performance wise.
     
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  4. jonKranked

    jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

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    do they consider copying to be innovation?
     
  5. 'size

    'size Turbo Monkey

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    do you have any idea what the gripton compound would be closest to, compared to the shore durometer's S uses?
     
  6. landcruiser

    landcruiser Monkey

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    I don't know what the final spec ended up being or how the compounds perform in anything beyond XC tread depth. I would have targeted our DH/Grid compounds as a starting point for equivalent durometer, but there are many variations that Specialized has at their disposal to try. At the same durometer, Gripton should theoretically provide the same or better grip, but with less rolling resistance.
     
  7. StiHacka

    StiHacka Compensating for something

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    First ride on 2.5 G5s in wet and muddy conditions and I was not very happy with them but I am just a talentless hack.
     
  8. kidwoo

    kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    Those tires suck. I'll burn them for you. I'll send you my mailing address.

    You using 26 or 27.5s? They're a little different profile when mounted up on 30-ish mm rims.

    So they come with space for power gels and a pair of testicles so they start actually racing dh?
     
    #888 -   Aug 13, 2016
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  9. SylentK

    SylentK Turbo Monkey

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    I'm gonna get these tires and totally huck it to flat everywhere I can.

     
  10. mykel

    mykel Turbo Monkey

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  11. 'size

    'size Turbo Monkey

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    people will shit on this for 'copying' the butcher and minion but let's be honest, those two tires are some of the best designs around and gwin has spent considerable time on both. if you're going to develop a new tire for the fastest racer in the world, anyone with half a brain would lean towards those two designs and pull from them exactly what gwin likes.
     
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  12. mykel

    mykel Turbo Monkey

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    Its, kinda like bikes are all starting to homage the trope "looks like a session."
    Same with tires - looks like a minion.

    Seems that the boffins are converging on a standard design envelope and offering variations on a theme...
     
  13. kidwoo

    kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    Imagine that. It's almost as if you can quantify tire design and quit throwing doo doo at a wall and then turning it into rubber (hi WTB!)
     
  14. HAB

    HAB Chelsea from Seattle

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    It's almost like companies have figured out what works and are actually doing that.

    Well, some of them.
     
  15. landcruiser

    landcruiser Monkey

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    The real question is have they made any real tweaks to the construction to improve over the sharpied DHF's that Gwin's been using most of the season?

    The idea that drastically different tread patterns could exist to meet similar rider needs is a fantasy that needs to die. Like you guys are hinting at, all the good designs converge for a reason. Those fundamental patterns have reached a plateau (if not maturity) where true differentiation comes down to casing and compounds more than the exact pattern differences. Of course if your construction and compounds are basically the same (DHF/Butcher/G5) then you can nit pick the pattern differences, but preferably through riding and not by looking at pictures of the on the internets and saying "looks like a ..."
     
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  16. kidwoo

    kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    Meh. I'd say butcher, G5, and maxxis dh casings are all up there in equal awesomeness.


    oh wait..........:D



    Treads still aren't there. Until every one of these 'really similar' designs duplicate the length and thickness of those wildrockr2 sideknobs with very little space between them, there's still work to do. Very very important work.
     
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  17. HAB

    HAB Chelsea from Seattle

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    Meanwhile, Mavic has a new DH tire.




    :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
     
  18. big-ted

    big-ted Danced with A, attacked by C, fired by D.

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    ^ eesh. Do not want.
     
  19. mykel

    mykel Turbo Monkey

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    :stupid:
     
  20. kidwoo

    kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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  21. HAB

    HAB Chelsea from Seattle

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    Forget that, I'm ecstatic that they're doing a 2.3 DHR 2 DD in 26".
     
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  22. kidwoo

    kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    What did you think I said?

    PAY ATTENTION DAMMIT! :rofl:
     
  23. rpet

    rpet Turbo Monkey

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    Gwin developed a Minion?
     
  24. kidwoo

    kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    No a minion is fairly well reputed dh tire.

    Gwinn developed a nice looking tread for a company that made elastomer pedals and bar ends, which is sure to definitely not screw something up in compound or casing structure. In fact I have complete faith that everything about that tire will be completely awesome, just like every tire manufacturer always does. Every time.
     
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  25. slyfink

    slyfink Turbo Monkey

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    Looks like they've expanded the DD casing to 26 for their "gravity" tires....this is a good thing. Can't wait until they are available...
     
  26. HAB

    HAB Chelsea from Seattle

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    You were talking about the SS. :confused:
     
  27. kidwoo

    kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    I was acknowledging the general trend in my mind as well. You're supposed to know that with no indication whatsoever from me in text. Plus CTE and stuff.


    But yeah, it looks like they're doing a bunch of them. Pretty stoked. I can't imagine they'd be doing those if they're not still selling that horrendous wheelsize. Or they're just calling the old EXOs DDs since the new EXOs are a joke.
     
  28. HAB

    HAB Chelsea from Seattle

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    You really think they changed the Exo casing for tires that they've been producing in that size for a while? I've bought a couple recently and they've been okay so far.

    Unfortunately I don't have a ton of older Exo casings to go compare against because I finally did a purge of the mountain of clapped out tires I had in my garage recently. It's pretty cool being able to see the back wall again. :rofl:
     
  29. kidwoo

    kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    I haven't evolved to that state yet. Probably 60-70 tires sitting in my garage and not a wall to be seen. And I have the nerve to make fun of women and high volume shoe purchasing.

    So far most of the ones I've used still seem pretty good. I did get a 2.5 DHF EXO that I put holes in, plugged, then put more holes in.......on enve rims at 30+ psi none the less. It's a maxxterra 3c which is fairly new-ish so I really do think they're backing off the exos.
     
  30. SuboptimusPrime

    SuboptimusPrime Turbo Monkey

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    Got a 27.5 aggressor in DD for a rear tire inbound today. After making an DHR2 Exo/TR tire sad there last time, figured I need to deal with the fact that 1000 gram tires are a thing when you're 200 pounds of poor line choice. Will give it a proper thrashing in Le Pisgah this weekend. Details and bullshitting to follow.
     
  31. slyfink

    slyfink Turbo Monkey

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    yes please.

    I keep refreshing the Maxxis store to see when that tire is made available in 26. (it's listed on their site, but not their store. yet)
     
  32. SuboptimusPrime

    SuboptimusPrime Turbo Monkey

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    I will def follow up. I looked high and low for other treads in DD but could only find the aggressor available so seems a lot of DD tires are forthcoming but not yet easy to get. Anyhow, this will be fun as I'm down to try new tires, esp in a rear tire (pretty stuck on minion/minion copy) for the front.
     
  33. Gary

    Gary "S" is for "neo-luddite"

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    Need some Maxxis help here.

    Is there such a thing as a 27.5 x 2.40 DHRII exo?
    Looking for a front tyre to compliment a 27.5x2.40 Highroller II on the rear and can't find a DHRII in the same or larger size.
    Only 2.40 DHR II I can find says WT (is this WT thing not a stupid fatbike/plus size rim thing?).
    Or is the 2.30 DHRII a similar size to my rear Highroller II

    Was kinda looking forward to trying my first new front tyre in a well over a decade but right now I'm so confused I'm about to just say fuck it and order yet another DHF

    Thanks.
     
  34. HAB

    HAB Chelsea from Seattle

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    Yeah, the WT is some new thing they're doing with tires designed for stupid wide rims.

    There isn't a normal 2.4 27.5 DHR2, as you've noted. The 2.3 is definitely narrower than the 2.4 HR2.

    If you feel like trying something new, I really can't recommend the Michelin Wild Rock'r 2 enough. It's like a DHF, only with a tougher casing and better side knobs.
     
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  35. StiHacka

    StiHacka Compensating for something

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    What's your rim width? They say WT is OK from 27-28mm internal.
     
  36. kidwoo

    kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    Minions have their sideknobs pretty close in towards the centerline. It's part of what makes that tire so good: a comparatively low lean angle for engagement. The WT version just spaces those out so that the tire doesn't end up with a completely flat profile on wide rims where you just lean past the sideknobs every time you turn. They're not plus sized at all.......just different. So yeah if you've got anything 25ish or wider, they should be fine.

    But gary

    Be honest with me

    Are you riding a 27.5 wheeled bike now? Do we need to talk?
     
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  37. Gary

    Gary "S" is for "neo-luddite"

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    @kidwoo Some Dick off the internet. I forget whoo ;) recommended I buy me some shitty mushroom grips ;)... When I finally found the grips they seemed dear as fuck and had to be shipped all the way from Germany... Seems the grips were OEM and the Germans forgot to remove them from some huge wheeled plastic pseudo downhill bike (obviously an ALDI special).. .only a complete retard would ride a 30lb 170mm full suspension bicycle with the same geometry that destroyed WC downhill tracks just a few years back. eh?

    PlasticSpazWheeler.jpg [Custom BLACK E13 rim and Monarch Decals in the post]
    a set of ALL BLACK 26s and dual plys are also ready to mount for proper* days.
    264LYF or something... mutter mutter...


    * 13" BB height zero up-pedalling days


    @HAB 23mm internal... and I don't plan on changing that. I already have a wild R'r2 on the back of my slopestyle bike... a 2.1 though... but strangely do quite like it. Now I have this new thing the slopestyle bike will probably be getting a semi slick re-fitted

    I'll just go with a good ol' DHF..
     
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  38. HAB

    HAB Chelsea from Seattle

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    That ain't a WR2, they don't make those in a 2.1. Sounds like it's the original, which looks like this:



    Those side knobs are wimpy. The WR2, the good one, looks like this:

     
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  39. StiHacka

    StiHacka Compensating for something

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    Get the e13 TRS 2.35. They are better than DHF.
     
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  40. Gary

    Gary "S" is for "neo-luddite"

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    B..b..b..but the "L"s are in a different place!!!