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Complete Guide to Downhill Rubber

SkaredShtles

SkaredShtles

Michael Bolton
Sep 21, 2003
65,883
12,862
In a van.... down by the river
Andeh said:
<snip>So what rear tire maintains braking ability for more than a month? Let's say conditions are loose over hard and hard. Moderate and steep grades. Needs to have pretty tall side knobs for cornering in the loose. And not pedal like an utter pig. And while we're at it, I'd like a pony too.
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You KNEW it was coming. :D I'd suggest the Magi-X for add'l "durability"...

ETA: FUCK Michelin and their incomprehensible technical bullshit: https://enduro-mtb.com/en/michelin-mountain-bike-tires-review/

I'd suggest reading the above article then trying to make a guess as to which compound will be more durable. :think:

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StiHacka

StiHacka

Compensating for something
Jan 4, 2013
21,560
12,505
In hell. Welcome!
Rhubarb said:
@StiHacka - was the Dissector on the rear? Was thinking of giving one a go for the hardtail (hardback only), in place of an Agressor which didn’t get great feedback from the Monkeys when I asked. I don’t need a DHR and just waiting for the current one to die off.
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Yeah, on the rear. I just did not think the tire was particularly good at anything. It was so unremarkable I cannot even recollect what I disliked about it the most, but I still remember the feeble side knobs. :doh:
 
A

Andeh

Customer Title
Mar 3, 2020
1,044
1,010
How many "oink-oinks" does the Rock'r get as a rear tire? Do they only make it in Magi-X now?

Your comment about the Magi-X for durability contradicts the article you linked. But it does kinda square with what I was thinking. The Magi-X feels like it's harder with a "finger nail test" but slower rebound and the knobs feel like they move further once you really push on them. So maybe it actually lasts longer?

I'm kinda considering trying a DH34 Bike Park. If their dogshit website is to believed, it's lighter than a normal DH34 (1290g vs. 1450g), but more durable. Tread looks like a mashup of a WEF & a DHR.
 
SkaredShtles

SkaredShtles

Michael Bolton
Sep 21, 2003
65,883
12,862
In a van.... down by the river
Andeh said:
How many "oink-oinks" does the Rock'r get as a rear tire? Do they only make it in Magi-X now?

Your comment about the Magi-X for durability contradicts the article you linked. But it does kinda square with what I was thinking. The Magi-X feels like it's harder with a "finger nail test" but slower rebound and the knobs feel like they move further once you really push on them. So maybe it actually lasts longer?
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That's why I made all those edits and settled on "Fuck Michelin" - that company has got to be run by a bunch of fucking morons. Who, somehow, managed to come up with a BRILLIANT tread design. But just one.

It's almost as if someone's hand was guided by GOD HIMSELF, but then he left to make cheese or baguettes or something.

Michelin - if you're listening - could you PLEASE just make the Rock'R2 in about 3 sizes with 3 sidewall options and options for each of your compounds? Please?

Fucking Michelin. :disgust:
 
kidwoo

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Aug 25, 2003
42,146
13,342
Squirtin ketchup n' mustard on charred flesh
SkaredShtles said:
Wait. What? See - even you don't know what the FUCK Michelin is on about... :D
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Except that I do.

You'll remember I'm one of the people who got YOU to check those tires out years ago.

Magi is the softer compound one.

motorcycle.michelinman.com

MICHELIN technologies for MTB tires

Michelin innovation : technologies for MTB tires
motorcycle.michelinman.com motorcycle.michelinman.com
 
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SkaredShtles

SkaredShtles

Michael Bolton
Sep 21, 2003
65,883
12,862
In a van.... down by the river
kidwoo said:
Except that I do.

You'll remember I'm one of the people who got YOU to check those tires out years ago.
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This was all YOUR fault? Are you sure? :think:

Magi is the softer compound one.

motorcycle.michelinman.com

MICHELIN technologies for MTB tires

Michelin innovation : technologies for MTB tires
motorcycle.michelinman.com motorcycle.michelinman.com
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You can understand the confusion, though, when even *trusted* reviewers can't seem to get it straight. :D

"The Magi-X² compound is the harder of the two, although, somewhat confusingly, Michelin say that it offers more grip at higher speeds than the Gum-X rubber."
 
SkaredShtles

SkaredShtles

Michael Bolton
Sep 21, 2003
65,883
12,862
In a van.... down by the river
kidwoo said:
Read that link on the michelin page, there are multiple 'magi' rubbers. I was talking specifically about the two rubbers that apply to the rocker2s.

Force, wild whatever, and kazimer are all equally irrelevant to real life
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I seem to recall that in the "old days" they just had Magi-X and Gum-X. No "squared" no 3D no additional retardation. But I could be wrong, because their website is an abomination against GOD. :mad:
 
HAB

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,582
2,012
Seattle
Michy's new DH tires — both the 22 and the 34 — are also excellent. Unfortunately they're also heavy as fuck, and only come in a DH casing. The 34 is a little lighter, but the 22 is almost 1500g in a 27.5x2.4.
 
jackalope

jackalope

Mental acuity - 1%
Jan 9, 2004
7,622
5,948
in a single wide, cooking meth...
FWIW, I was recently able to get a 26" Wild Rockr 2 from an online dealer called bikeinn. Took like 2 months to get to freedom land, but I should order a few more since I'm sure these are new-very old stock. Gum-x btw, as I haven't seen the magi-x available in a minute.
 
jstuhlman

jstuhlman

bagpipe wanker
Dec 3, 2009
16,733
13,095
Cackalacka du Nord
jackalope said:
FWIW, I was recently able to get a 26" Wild Rockr 2 from an online dealer called bikeinn. Took like 2 months to get to freedom land, but I should order a few more since I'm sure these are new-very old stock. Gum-x btw, as I haven't seen the magi-x available in a minute.
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how's dat shoulder? you need to heal up so we can get a leaf surfin' wilsons ride in the books this fall
 
HAB

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,582
2,012
Seattle
kidwoo said:
mEdiOcRe TirEs wOrK gReAt iN hErO dUrT
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I'm not saying it's Tahoe levels of shitty, but it hasn't rained here in like 2 months. It's blown up and dusty.


The Rockr is 800000% better than their new enduro tires though, they have for sure gone backwards.
 
Loki87

Loki87

Monkey
Aug 24, 2008
181
146
Salzburg, Austria
iRider said:
Der Baron Projekt is not bad either. In 26" around 900 g, rolls OK, great in wet soft conditions and still good on wet roots and rocks. In dry lose stuff I find the Shorty better though. Baron has for me also better durability than Schwalbe tires (not tested the current version, though).
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I really don´t know what it is with this tire, but it seems like rolling resistance is absolute hit or miss. I had it on the front and back of my enduro and they were absolute boat anchors. They did roll so incredibly bad, i tested them by rolling down a hill on asphalt and the bike wouldn´t even pick up any significant amount of speed. I could feel the drag from the tires. They seem to do better on softer ground, but on anything hardpack or even asphalt (which is something i have to ride for a good bit to get to the trail) they are the absolute worst thing i have ever seen. In comparison my dh bike with Magic Marys did roll noiceably better. I have since heard similar experiences from other riders, but also people who really like them and think they roll well. Maybe they do or did sell them in different compounds or anything like that.
They do offer a tremendous amount of traction though and i have not yet managed to push them to their limit. Grip feels really really good.
I do now ride them on the front only with a Slaughter in the back which does work much better for me.

As for Schwalbe compounds, i found the Ultra Soft to actually last longer than the Soft due to its wear characteristics. The Soft would have big chunks torn out of the knobs and till the end started loosing a few sideknobs, whereas the knobs on the Ultra Soft will wear much more evenly and only get rounded. US does also offer noticeably more grip.
 
SkaredShtles

SkaredShtles

Michael Bolton
Sep 21, 2003
65,883
12,862
In a van.... down by the river
HAB said:
Michy's new DH tires — both the 22 and the 34 — are also excellent. Unfortunately they're also heavy as fuck, and only come in a DH casing. The 34 is a little lighter, but the 22 is almost 1500g in a 27.5x2.4.
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Errr... check into it further. I've heard rumors they are doing the 34 in a "park" version that is less... porky.

Also - are we sure the Rock'R2 is being phased out? I mean, they took alot of marketing brainpower to rename it the Rock'R2 Enduro - seems like they'd keep it around just based on that marketing investment. :D
 
kidwoo

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Aug 25, 2003
42,146
13,342
Squirtin ketchup n' mustard on charred flesh
HAB said:
Heh. Does it matter if you get black lung from riding?

Again, not Tahoe levels of shitty but it's pretty fuckin' smoky up here too. How you holding up?
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I just tore an mcl in a knee so I'm sidelined anyway. I loaded up a truck with water and gas two days ago when the winds were lighting up every dipshits' abandonned campfire right after labor day. There were multiple fires here that got stomped quick that could have destroyed this place.

Doing great compared to the poor fucks in Oregon and the foothills in CA. Just smoke so far. Cleared out the patagonia vests real good though.

Back on tires........

I just saw the words 'derp baron'
I feel like we need some review here

Kenda
Continental
Panaracer
IRC
WTB

Every other brand- choose wisely, the tires people talk about all the time are talked about for a reason and are better than the 'new' shit you think you want from that same company
 
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HAB

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,582
2,012
Seattle
kidwoo said:
I just tore an mcl in a knee so I'm sidelined anyway. I loaded up a truck with water and gas two days ago when the winds were lighting up every dipshits' abandonned campfire right after labor day. There were multiple fires here that got stomped quick that could have destroyed this place.

Doing great compared to the poor fucks in Oregon and the foothills in CA. Just smoke so far. Cleared out the patagonia vests real good though.

Back on tires........
I feel like we need some review here

Kenda
Continental
Panaracer
IRC
WTB

Every other brand- choose wisely, the tires people talk about all the time are talked about for a reason and are better than the 'new' shit you think you want from that same company
Click to expand...
Ah fuck, sorry about your knee.

Cannot fathom how anybody would think starting a campfire right now would be okay. JFC.
 
iRider

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,653
3,093
Loki87 said:
I really don´t know what it is with this tire, but it seems like rolling resistance is absolute hit or miss. I had it on the front and back of my enduro and they were absolute boat anchors. They did roll so incredibly bad, i tested them by rolling down a hill on asphalt and the bike wouldn´t even pick up any significant amount of speed. I could feel the drag from the tires. They seem to do better on softer ground, but on anything hardpack or even asphalt (which is something i have to ride for a good bit to get to the trail) they are the absolute worst thing i have ever seen. In comparison my dh bike with Magic Marys did roll noiceably better. I have since heard similar experiences from other riders, but also people who really like them and think they roll well. Maybe they do or did sell them in different compounds or anything like that.
They do offer a tremendous amount of traction though and i have not yet managed to push them to their limit. Grip feels really really good.
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I would not put them on the rear wheel! On the front they are no worse than a Magic Marry Vert star IMO and I have to ride pavement to get to the trails as well if I ride from the house.
My suspicion regarding the different reports on rolling resistance is inner rim width. On a wider rim more rubber is on the ground, higher rolling resistance. Some tires seem to be more affected by this than others, so maybe the Baron is one of them? I ride them on 23 mm inner width rims
 
StiHacka

StiHacka

Compensating for something
Jan 4, 2013
21,560
12,505
In hell. Welcome!
Loki87 said:
As for Schwalbe compounds, i found the Ultra Soft to actually last longer than the Soft due to its wear characteristics
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iRider said:
I would not put them on the rear wheel!
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+2
I like the MM Vert Star / purple Addix 10 times better than the Rock'r R2 on my trails. The Rock'r is a boat anchor in the rear and meh in the front, especially in the wet. I bought a bunch of NOS Vert Star MMs for $30/piece, they last longer than the orange Addix / Trail Star for me as well.
 
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