[marshalolson]

you want the "team" dh racing with "inner peace" sidewall reinforcement.

also, those dissents are fine tires, FWIW they have a rather round profile on anything narrower than a 729

 

[Sandwich]

Thanks. It looks like all the "team" versions I find have the "third knob", which they shaved off for the 2.3 version. I'd love a set, but I'm working on budget tires, and most of those come in at $40 or more. My goal is under $40, preferably $25 or less.

 

[Bikael Molton]

^ the key is in the MSRP listing, if it can be believed.

I am not aware of any DH spec (dual-ply, reinforced sidewall) tire ever being sold for as low as $30 MSRP.

 

[marshalolson]

he is not looking for $30 MSRP. just some closeouts.

you might check cambria

http://www.cambriabike.com/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=172&page=1&cat=Wire+Bead+Downhill+Tires

they have 2.7 high rollers for $38, and 2.35 DHF's for the same, 2.5 excavators for $24, and a bunch of 2.6 and 2.4 ardents for $25 (2.6 3c) and $39 (2.4 60a)

good luck.

 

[Sandwich]

I didn't see the hrollerz but the exccavs were what I had my eye on. Never run high rollers but I'd like to go 2.5" actual front and 2.35 rear ideally.

Eric carter had some tips for cutting exccavs, I'd love to try them out.

 

[marshalolson]

high roller:

http://www.cambriabike.com/shopexd.asp?id=107960

 

[S.K.C.]

Mother of God...

I never thought I'd say it and may get banned for it, however I just discovered that the Tech section at Pinkbike is actually informative if not occasionally scientific in approach. One tech article that was a standout and relevant to this thread:

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Tech-Tuesday--Wider-Rims-Are-Better-and-Why-Tubeless-Tires-Burp-.html

... the use of the term "delta" in proper context? ...an examination of leverage? ...lateral forces?

What is HAPPENING? It's like up is down, black is white... dogs and cats living together... TOTAL chaos!

(*curls up naked in fetal position under desk / sobs uncontrollably*)

incidentally I've always said this for years - a wider rim is a better match for a wider tire

 

[weedkilla]

Read the comments - world is fine, dogs still chase cats, average person isn't that bright and 50% of the population is worse..............
Personal favorite was that you cant dent dh rims/ dh rims are soft and dent easily.

I have been impressed by Richard Cunningham's writing plenty of times, one of the only journos to ever document when they have been wrong about industry trends and how they have had to eat their words and been able to explain why.

 

[Pslide]

Mother of God...

I never thought I'd say it and may get banned for it, however I just discovered that the Tech section at Pinkbike is actually informative if not occasionally scientific in approach. One tech article that was a standout and relevant to this thread:



... the use of the term "delta" in proper context? ...an examination of leverage? ...lateral forces?

What is HAPPENING? It's like up is down, black is white... dogs and cats living together... TOTAL chaos!

(*curls up naked in fetal position under desk / sobs uncontrollably*)

incidentally I've always said this for years - a wider rim is a better match for a wider tire

As a tire engineer, I can say that article was pseudo-science at best. Yes, his conclusions are right, but the rest is a lot of guesswork. If he was a proper journo, he'd do some research and maybe interview the folks that design tires for a living rather than just nick their videos off the web and try and put words around it.

 

[Percy]

As a tire engineer, I can say that article was pseudo-science at best. Yes, his conclusions are right, but the rest is a lot of guesswork. If he was a proper journo, he'd do some research and maybe interview the folks that design tires for a living rather than just nick their videos off the web and try and put words around it.

So, how wide a rim would you recommend for a 2.40 Highroller 2 front 2.40 Ardent rear combo, on a 150mm trail bike?
Both ends EXO sidewall folding bead, running tubeless conversion on some old beat-up DT 6.1's, which are not light. And they're on old Hugi FR hubs which are also very not light!

I'm leaning towards 25mm+ like the 6.1's, and struggling to find a rim that wide that's under 73ton (or 600g, I may have exaggerated the weight for comedy reasons), I always liked wider rims for DH so reckon wider must be better for trail riding with wide tyres as well.

 

[Pslide]

So, how wide a rim would you recommend for a 2.40 Highroller 2 front 2.40 Ardent rear combo, on a 150mm trail bike?
Both ends EXO sidewall folding bead, running tubeless conversion on some old beat-up DT 6.1's, which are not light. And they're on old Hugi FR hubs which are also very not light!

I'm leaning towards 25mm+ like the 6.1's, and struggling to find a rim that wide that's under 73ton (or 600g, I may have exaggerated the weight for comedy reasons), I always liked wider rims for DH so reckon wider must be better for trail riding with wide tyres as well.

Just to clarify, I'm a car tire engineer, not a bike tire engineer!

And I have not ridden tubeless for a good many years. I like to switch tires to suit the conditions. I am going tubeless on my Banshee Prime though.

From what I understand about tubeless, wider will help, but you also need to secure the bead either by running a real UST tire and rim, running higher pressures, or running a Stan's rim strip or ghetto tubeless. From what I hear, Stan's flow rims with their rubber rim strip are a pretty secure setup. I am going to try Flows without rim strips first, and then buy rims strips or go ghetto tubeless if I burp.

 

[kidwoo]

Wider rims widen up the profile of a tire as well as support it better in hard sideloading.

That's even more true with tubeless since you lose the additional support of a tube.

Go wide.


No I'm not going to read an RC article. But scanning the pictures it looks like he's probably saying the same thing.

That's not specific to just tubeless though.

 

[Pslide]

Wider rims widen up the profile of a tire as well as support it better in hard sideloading.

That's even more true with tubeless since you lose the additional support of a tube.

Go wide.


No I'm not going to read an RC article. But scanning the pictures it looks like he's probably saying the same thing.

That's not specific to just tubeless though.

No need to read it, you summed up the whole article with your first sentence.

 

[kidwoo]

No need to read it, you summed up the whole article with your first sentence.

Don't tell pinkbike.


Knowing I agree with that dork on anything makes me want to take a shower with my clothes on, sitting down, and clutching my knees against my chest.

 

[Percy]

Don't tell pinkbike.


Knowing I agree with that dork on anything makes me want to take a shower with my clothes on, sitting down, and clutching my knees against my chest.

Would a hug help?
Clothes on of course.

Or a beer?

Ahem anyway, I've been pointed in the direction of the Velocity P35, which looks exactly like the rim I want.
http://www.velocitywheels.com/store/product.asp?pID=57&cID=22
Wide as a wide thing, and not as heavy as RC's ego..........or 73ton, whichever's lighter.
Plus you can get plaid graphics.

 

[Verskis]

I can't decide on a front tire for racing DH next summer. I have used only 2.7" Minion DHF Supertackys for a few years and I would like to try something else. I'm mostly interested in the new Maxxis High Roller II and Continental Der Baron. Both of these tires seem to have a well thought-out tread for mixed conditions. I want to be able to ride the tire in everything but the most muddiest conditions (I have Wetscreams for that). The rear tire is going to be a 2.7" Minion DHF, because that's what I have in the garage. Here's the pros and cons I could think of each tire:

High Roller II:
+ Proven casing (I rarely get flats with the Minions)
+ Possibly less rolling resistance than the Baron

- Narrower than the rear tire
- The rubber compound gets very hard in freezing conditions
- May wear quicker than the Baron

Continental Der Baron:

+ The width is about the same size as the rear tire
+ Possibly wear slower than the High Roller II
+ The rubber compound works in cold conditions too (I don't need to change tires for end-of-season training)
+ The rubber compound may be even better than the Maxxis compound for wet rocks and roots

- The casing may not be as good as the Maxxis casing for flat prevention
- They may roll slower than the High Roller II



It seems like the Baron has more pros and less cons than the High Roller II, but I'm still hesitant because I have heard bad things about the Continental casing.
Also, it seems that both tires will perform well in looser conditions, but how about the hardpack performance? Anybody ridden both in a variety of conditions?

 

[staike]

Personally, I can't stand riding narrower tyres on the front than back. Opposite is fine, but s wider rear than front tyre just feels sketchy to me. I know several people on Baron's and they seem to be happy. But I have also seen the tyre pop off the rim a cuple of times(gee atherton and a local guy) I was running the Baron tyres myself a couple of months without any problems and they performed great.

I'm going for High Roller II 3C both F&R this year for dry to muddy conditions. And Wetscreams for the ****tiest mud.

 

[Sandwich]

Ahem anyway, I've been pointed in the direction of the Velocity P35, which looks exactly like the rim I want.
http://www.velocitywheels.com/store/product.asp?pID=57&cID=22

whoa, those are neat, and it looks like they're going to be made in the US soon, and previously have been made in Australia. That's pretty neat, and they have a color that matches my rather lively antifreeze colored frame. +$70 for teak is a little much though....

I can't decide on a front tire for racing DH next summer. I have used only 2.7" Minion DHF Supertackys for a few years and I would like to try something else. I'm mostly interested in the new Maxxis High Roller II and Continental Der Baron.

are you sure you want the barons? seems like the kaiser would be a better match/comparison to the HR or DHF. The baron looks to me like an intermediate tire, more in line with a swampthing/hillbilly/intruder...I haven't tried it though, but that's what it looked like to me.

 

[Verskis]

are you sure you want the barons? seems like the kaiser would be a better match/comparison to the HR or DHF. The baron looks to me like an intermediate tire, more in line with a swampthing/hillbilly/intruder...I haven't tried it though, but that's what it looked like to me.

I don't know, the Kaiser tread pattern just seems somewhat silly to me, but so does Rubber Queen and that's a great trailbike tire.
The Baron tread blocks have larger surface area than Swampthing or Hillbilly, that's why I think it could be good in drier conditions.

 

[staike]

Baron works great in dry.

 

[boylagz]

Baron works great in dry.

I can confirm this. Although I only have it as a rear (their 2.35 is a lil skinny for me to run as a front, got it cheap too), I cant fault it atm. Run it tubeless as well. Im thinking of getting the 2.4 Mtn. King as a front tire. Anyone has feedback on 'em?

 

[Nurse Ben]

Does anyone have tire volumes for the newer tires, like the Michelins?

I'm riding the Ardent on a 26" and 29" muni, they are good tires, but they don't have quite the volume of some other tires I have enjoyed, such as the Duro or Arrow 3" tires; but then those are a little too fat.

I really like the Intense tires, rode the 24x 3" and I have a bunch of 26 x 2.5 which are nice tires but they are heavy for their only moderate volume. The Intense 2.5 is slightly wider than the Ardent 2.4, but only in the knobbies, the Intense casing is slightly smaller in volume than the Ardent.

So, is the fatter Michelin Grip R 2.6" a higher volume tire than the Ardent 2.4?

FYI, the Ardent 2.6 is the same volume as the 2.4, only heavier due to the wire bead. I rode them both and did not notice any difference other than in the weight.

 

[staike]

Front: Muddy Mary 2.35 Vertstar + rear: High Roller 2.5 ST = WIN??

That's what I'm gonna try out now. Any thoughts or experiences? Will it be crap?

 

[Capricorn]

These are just my experiences since switching over to the MM 2.35 VS front and rear.
Track conditions: dry, gravelly, rocky, high speed.

The muddy mary is a brilliant substitute for anyone moving up from Minions: even though the tread pattern does suggest it, it rolls really fast. Grip is superb, but moving from the center to the side knobs is not the same as with a minion. There is some slip, but it's very predictable. The nice thing is, you can run it at a higher pressure than a minion, but have the same levels of grip. On rocky courses, your rims will thank you.

Negatives: not that I can really think of, but two come to mind: the carcass seems abit thin, that or the devils thorns in my area are growing really long spikes. MIght be the knob pattern on the Minion that didn't result in so many stan's leaks as I've experienced with the MMs, or i'm just paying careful attention this time.
The other thing is the softness of the center knobs. That braking edge wears down super fast, but the side knobs are not showing the same amount of wear and tear as the side knobs on a minion for comparable riding time on the same track.

Brilliant tire.

 

[Optimax150]

What is the knobs like on a 2.5 spec hillbillies? Are they small like the wetscream or are they like the muddy Mary? Also is the 2.5 hillbilly the same size as a 2.5 butcher?

 

[Pslide]

Well well, what do we have here. A High Roller II copy called the Bontrager G5:

If the shoulder knobs give a bit more support than the HR2, then they may be on to a winner...

 

[frango]

I went through entire thread, but I didn't find this information.
I need such info:
Is Muddy Mary 2,35 TrailStar, Evolution, Freeride version valid DH tire (I use Minion EXO with good results)?
What's the real weight of Muddy Mary 2,35 TrailStar, Evolution, Freeride version?
What's the real weight of Muddy Mary 2,35 TrailStar, Evolution, Dowhill version?

Thx in advance!

 

[weedkilla]

Sortof, the trailstar compound isnt as sticky as even the 3c minion exo - which isnt as sticky as minion 2 ply 3c. I've only had it in the vertstar compound, which should be a little heavier than trailstar and they come in around 850grams. My last minion exo was just over 800 - Muddy mary trailstar will be close.
I think vertstar front, trailstar rear in freeride casing is a legit choice for the right person/conditions, and I am happy racing MM, vertstar, freeride case front and rear (tubeless).
MM downhill case is ~1250 grams (again vertstar is all I have - trailstar is 30-50 grams lighter)
For whatever reason, I have not had the same success with Wicked will in the freeride casing, it seems a bit thinner and easier to stake. But Muddy Mary has been very reliable even in the freeride casing.

 

[frango]

Thx, weedkilla!
How can VertStar and TrailStar be compared to Maxxis 42a compound?

 

[Udi]

VS is softer (it's a VERY soft compound, probably the softest I've seen in MTB), and TS is a little harder.

I think VS front and TS rear is a good choice like weedkilla said, or VS rear as well if you don't mind replacing them a little more often, but they do wear fairly quick on the rear.

I'm running MM's in 2.35 VertStar at the moment (both ends) and the weight is virtually identical to a 2.5 Minion DHF 40a/42a. The size is also similar if not slightly larger than the Maxxis 2.5.

 

[frango]

Thx Udi. Have you got them in Freeride or DH casing?

 

[staike]

Scwalbe Muddy Mary DH 2,35 Vertstar - 1158 g

 

[frango]

Thx staike! That is not that bad. Similar to WetScream 2,2 42a, IIRC.
TS would be a bit lighter than VS, right?

 

[staike]

I'm not sure. Regarding the width, it's 2-3 mm wider than Maxxis DHF/HR 2,5". So 2,35" is more than wide enough.

 

[frango]

Great, coz I've been on WetScream 2,2, so far, which looks like ridiculously thin/narrow

 

[Optimax150]

The Vertstar Muddy Mary does wear fast. After about a couple of days of short riding the tires started to show wear, knobs starting round off and small parts of the knobs missing. They were 2.35, visually the same size as a 2.5 minion. I orders another set but in the 2.5 and Trailstar compound. I feel I got better traction with the bigger tire. Also the Trailstar lasted a lot longer. My only complaint about them is the knobs are looking good, but the knobs might get ripped off first before they show signs of wear. While the knobs look like new, the are starting to rip at the base. But otherwise they are awesome tires, anybody know of other tires that's compare with the Muddy Mary?

 

[scottishmark]

Does anyone here have any opinions on the Schwalbe Hans Dampf? Getting kitted up for a couple of weeks in France again. Week one is the Portes du Soleil (Les Gets, Morzine, Chatel, Morgins, etc) so Muddy Mary's are perfect for the riding there. However week two is Les Arcs which is much rockier and killed the back one I had on in no time last year.

So was thinking of putting a 2.4 (I assume 2.4 will roughly equal the 2.35 MM) Big Betty on the back, but then I saw Stanny trying out (and apparently liking) the Hans Dampf at Ft.William last weekend. Not actually sure if he raced on it though given the weather. It only comes in folding but, other than that, sounds tempting.

So any opinions here?

http://www.nextdaytyres.com/tyres/Schwalbe/Hans-Dampf.aspx

 

[scottishmark]

Does anyone here have any opinions on the Schwalbe Hans Dampf? Getting kitted up for a couple of weeks in France again. Week one is the Portes du Soleil (Les Gets, Morzine, Chatel, Morgins, etc) so Muddy Mary's are perfect for the riding there. However week two is Les Arcs which is much rockier and killed the back one I had on in no time last year.

So was thinking of putting a 2.4 (I assume 2.4 will roughly equal the 2.35 MM) Big Betty on the back, but then I saw Stanny trying out (and apparently liking) the Hans Dampf at Ft.William last weekend. Not actually sure if he raced on it though given the weather. It only comes in folding but, other than that, sounds tempting.

So any opinions here?

http://www.nextdaytyres.com/tyres/Schwalbe/Hans-Dampf.aspx

The all-knowing RM has nothing to add here? Gutted

 

[Optimax150]

I have never rode a Hans dampf tire, but here is my .02. Last year I did notice Danny hart using them some.
In the the AM crowd the are good tires with good grip, hence maybe why Danny was using them. They do have good reviews. Schwalbe is coming out with a DH version, if it's not out now. I was going to try them, but a little expensive, even at starbike.

 

[weedkilla]

Wouldn't even think about it until it comes in at least the free ride casing, but if its properly rocky then you need Schwalbe's DH casing.