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Complete Guide to Downhill Rubber

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,649
4,982
Australia
Just fit a new 27.5 3c Assegai DH on the front, for a race on the weekend coming, and was very surprised to see it was 1090gr on the scales. Triple checked the weight and the same with the specs to be sure it was a DH. That’s the lightest I’ve had one come in.
Thats bonkers light. The last couple Assegais I've had in 27.5 3C MaxxGrip were 1240g for DD and 1300 for DH.
 

jrewing

Monkey
Aug 22, 2010
302
209
Maydena Oz
Thats bonkers light. The last couple Assegais I've had in 27.5 3C MaxxGrip were 1240g for DD and 1300 for DH.
My big Betty park compound for the rear was 1350gr on same scale a week ago. I’m suspicious of the Assegai though being that light. Somethings not right.
Forgot to add it even felt light in hand when I’d unfolded it into shape.
 

jrewing

Monkey
Aug 22, 2010
302
209
Maydena Oz
Just noticed the old tyre has 9 parallel mold lines running between outer knob and outer knob.
New tyre has 7 parallel lines…

Old tyre was just under 1290ish with old sealant and not much wear, just side knobs were tearing as they do.
 

Andeh

Customer Title
Mar 3, 2020
1,083
1,043
Got a pair of the Conti Kryptotals in DH casing (Super Soft front, Soft rear). Weights are +/- 4% of spec, 1247g for a 29 front, 1270g for 27.5 rear. So in terms of weight, the front ends up lighter than a DD Assegai (but much, much stiffer sidewalls above the bead), the rear heavier than a DH DHR. The knobs are YUGE, and definitely taller and closer packed than Assegai/DHR. The Super Soft compound is really interesting, seems like the Michelin DH rubber. Very tacky, pretty firm, super slow rebound - feels like cold gummy bears. If you twist a knob it takes close to a second to return. Just going by hand feel, I'd say SS is firmer, tackier, and slower rebound than MG. The Soft rubber feels pretty normal MT-ish.

I'm going to run these on my Nomad, and a DD/DH Assegai/DHR on the ebike to compare them.
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,649
4,982
Australia
Got a pair of the Conti Kryptotals in DH casing (Super Soft front, Soft rear). Weights are +/- 4% of spec, 1247g for a 29 front, 1270g for 27.5 rear. So in terms of weight, the front ends up lighter than a DD Assegai (but much, much stiffer sidewalls above the bead), the rear heavier than a DH DHR. The knobs are YUGE, and definitely taller and closer packed than Assegai/DHR. The Super Soft compound is really interesting, seems like the Michelin DH rubber. Very tacky, pretty firm, super slow rebound - feels like cold gummy bears. If you twist a knob it takes close to a second to return. Just going by hand feel, I'd say SS is firmer, tackier, and slower rebound than MG. The Soft rubber feels pretty normal MT-ish.

I'm going to run these on my Nomad, and a DD/DH Assegai/DHR on the ebike to compare them.
That's the same combo I'm running but in 27.5. Report back on installation - mine were a proper bastard to get on but wondering if different rims might be easier?

FWIW, despite the installation hassles I'm pretty sure I'll continue to run the Contis after these ones die. They've been impressive
 

Andeh

Customer Title
Mar 3, 2020
1,083
1,043
That's the same combo I'm running but in 27.5. Report back on installation - mine were a proper bastard to get on but wondering if different rims might be easier?

FWIW, despite the installation hassles I'm pretty sure I'll continue to run the Contis after these ones die. They've been impressive
I put them on a set of Reserve HD ALs. They're definitely tight, and after trying to prove my manliness by wrestling the last bit over the rim, I just resorted to using a plastic tire lever and they hopped right on. I think I managed 1/4 of the beads with bare hands, the other 3 I cheated and used a lever. No problems seating them with my little baby air compressor.
 

Jozz

Joe Dalton
Apr 18, 2002
5,910
7,461
SADL
I put them on a set of Reserve HD ALs. They're definitely tight, and after trying to prove my manliness by wrestling the last bit over the rim, I just resorted to using a plastic tire lever and they hopped right on. I think I managed 1/4 of the beads with bare hands, the other 3 I cheated and used a lever. No problems seating them with my little baby air compressor.
Did you consider getting an Argotal for the front?
 

Andeh

Customer Title
Mar 3, 2020
1,083
1,043
Did you consider getting an Argotal for the front?
Yeah, I want to try that next winter. It looks very MM-ish to me, which is a fantastic winter tire for where I live. I deliberately did not buy one right now because I'm trying to influence the weather here through tire choice into stopping raining.
 

Flo33

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2015
2,088
1,319
Styria
Yeah, I want to try that next winter. It looks very MM-ish to me, which is a fantastic winter tire for where I live. I deliberately did not buy one right now because I'm trying to influence the weather here through tire choice into stopping raining.
Hahaha, good luck with that. In my experience it works the other way round - bring all the gear for shit weather and it will be as nice as it gets, guaranteed.
 

Jozz

Joe Dalton
Apr 18, 2002
5,910
7,461
SADL
Yeah, I want to try that next winter. It looks very MM-ish to me, which is a fantastic winter tire for where I live. I deliberately did not buy one right now because I'm trying to influence the weather here through tire choice into stopping raining.
Still intrigued as to why they did not offer the Krypto FRT in 2.5 or 2.6
 

Loki87

Monkey
Aug 24, 2008
181
146
Salzburg, Austria
Can anyone who´s running the new Contis comment on how the different carcass constructions compare to Schwalbe Super Gravity? Is the conti downhill comparable to SG?
 

Andeh

Customer Title
Mar 3, 2020
1,083
1,043
Can anyone who´s running the new Contis comment on how the different carcass constructions compare to Schwalbe Super Gravity? Is the conti downhill comparable to SG?
Felt a bit thicker on the sides than SG. SG to me feels relatively thin but stiff compared to Maxxis DD/DH. Like SG feels stiffer than DD, but thinner than DH. Maxxis DH to me feels like it relies a lot on shear rubber thickness as opposed to rigid sidewall/bead inserts. Conti DH vs. Maxxis DH feels maybe a tad thinner but with a little bit stiffer bead insert. Will ride tomorrow.
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,649
4,982
Australia
Can anyone who´s running the new Contis comment on how the different carcass constructions compare to Schwalbe Super Gravity? Is the conti downhill comparable to SG?
I thought the Conti DH was comparable to Schwalbe SG. The weights seem to indicate similar also.
 

Andeh

Customer Title
Mar 3, 2020
1,083
1,043
First impressions of the Conti DH Kryptotal Fr SS / Re S setup vs. an Assegai DD MG / DHR DH MG: I've got the Contis mounted on my Nomad, the Maxxis on my ebike. This Saturday I did laps in the morning on the Nomad, then repeated same route in the afternoon with the ebike. The Contis felt perfectly fine to pedal, not particularly sluggish or anything. For the most part, both setups felt very similar, with the Contis having a little bit firmer side knob feel when leaned over. There was one situation where the Contis did better. On one of the trails, you come in real hot in a long-ish straight away, which ends in a left berm followed by a tight right. You are hauling and have to check speed hard and push hard into the berm then get over to the opposite side of the trail to set up for the next corner. Earlier in the week after the last storm, I went through and raked the whole trail, pulling the leaves, silt, and sand up and over the berm to refresh it. The Contis railed that corner twice no problem. In the afternoon, I had the Maxxis 2-wheel drift into that corner and had to put a foot down. It felt like the softer side knobs had bite through the loose fresh dirt, but just couldn't hold bite on the firmer ground underneath.
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,649
4,982
Australia
First impressions of the Conti DH Kryptotal Fr SS / Re S setup vs. an Assegai DD MG / DHR DH MG:
I'm still really liking my Contis and will probably get another set. I finally stabbed a hole in the rear doing laps last week but it plugged and is holding air. Bit of a bummer, just a crumb of doubt about how tough they might be, but it took 192kms of pretty decent terrain for an issue to pop up and they're still not showing much sign of wear. By comparison even a MaxTerra DHR2 is normally showing signs of getting chewed by now.
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,649
4,982
Australia
192km, so that's like 8 rides before it died?
Nah not dead at all. Just had to plug it after I overestimated my ability to avoid sharp stabby things. Tyre is hardly worn at all. Normally by now a DHR2 is definitely showing signs of wear though.

One plug and away she goes. Finished the ride, hasn't lost air.
 

Flo33

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2015
2,088
1,319
Styria
It felt like the softer side knobs had bite through the loose fresh dirt, but just couldn't hold bite on the firmer ground underneath.
This resembles to my Maxxis vs. others experience. That behaviour on the other hand makes Maxxis the benchmark on roots and off camber stony bits, especially in the wet.
 

Andeh

Customer Title
Mar 3, 2020
1,083
1,043
This resembles to my Maxxis vs. others experience. That behaviour on the other hand makes Maxxis the benchmark on roots and off camber stony bits, especially in the wet.
Fair point. This makes the Contis more appealing to me though because NOTHING grips our eucalyptus roots when they're wet... they're like buttered glass. In the summer here, conditions are like you'd see in Aus/NZ, super dry hardpack with a layer of dust on top. I've found that the Michelin stout side knobs worked really well in the past.
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,649
4,982
Australia
needed to remove the enduro krypto rear yesterday because i fucked my rim. was a 2 person job to break the bead, holy shit that was tight.
The sillyness of installing and removing these tyres is like the main negative to them so far. Pricing in Australia is a bit shit too but got mine from zee germans for less than Maxxis
 

ebarker9

Monkey
Oct 2, 2007
858
246
New DH bike came with a 2.5 Assegai front and rear. I've run the Assegai previously on the front and really liked it, but it doesn't sound like a great choice for the back based on the limited reviews that I've seen which even mention using it as a rear tire. Is it worth swapping out for a DHR2 and keeping as a spare or is there any point in trying it as a rear tire?
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,649
4,982
Australia
New DH bike came with a 2.5 Assegai front and rear. I've run the Assegai previously on the front and really liked it, but it doesn't sound like a great choice for the back based on the limited reviews that I've seen which even mention using it as a rear tire. Is it worth swapping out for a DHR2 and keeping as a spare or is there any point in trying it as a rear tire?
Try it for a spin. Its hilarious the traction it provides, but yeah I'd save it for the front and put a more fun and fast rolling rear on unless you're just doing fall line chutes all day.
 

Andeh

Customer Title
Mar 3, 2020
1,083
1,043
New DH bike came with a 2.5 Assegai front and rear. I've run the Assegai previously on the front and really liked it, but it doesn't sound like a great choice for the back based on the limited reviews that I've seen which even mention using it as a rear tire. Is it worth swapping out for a DHR2 and keeping as a spare or is there any point in trying it as a rear tire?
I've ridden my buddy's ebike with Assegais F/R, and don't really care for it. Like Toodles said, the traction is absurd, but if you're used to being able to drift/skid your rear end at all, you won't get that at all.
 

djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
3,052
1,767
Northern California
New DH bike came with a 2.5 Assegai front and rear. I've run the Assegai previously on the front and really liked it, but it doesn't sound like a great choice for the back based on the limited reviews that I've seen which even mention using it as a rear tire. Is it worth swapping out for a DHR2 and keeping as a spare or is there any point in trying it as a rear tire?
I've run them front and rear on my DH bike both in the Sierra and in Whistler. Best suited to shitty dry conditions. Definitely worth trying depending on your soil/terrain.
 

jrewing

Monkey
Aug 22, 2010
302
209
Maydena Oz
Has anyone had experience with the Schwalbe Bikepark MM e-50 tyres? The prices make it seem tempting. But skidding on my shoulder/elbows potentially don’t. Cant find anything on the Durometer of them.
Answer my own question here. The Bike Park Big Betty is not a great tyre. Good for hardpack flow lines at best. Tears edges of tyres quick, it has little grip anywhere else and little Dampening affect. Obviously a very shit compound of rubber. Wont run it again. You live you learn!
But the E13 grappler DH casing in the harder Slow rebound endurance I do like. Heavy duty casing which I ride a lot of rock gardens so feel confident charging in.
 

Leafy

Monkey
Sep 13, 2019
573
366
I have more rides on the deliums, I think part of hating them was that all my suspension had too much rebound damping, but the big thing was how squirmy they were. Like when I was like the 8th rider down upper cats paw this year, I thought I was gonna die in every berm because the front end just had to shift over an inch with the casing taking a set, that’s with 25psi and 140lb rider. I put my second t-anus insert in the front and that went away. They definitely have more drag than a kryptol F super sticky + dhr did max terra that’s on my wife’s bike, she just pulls away from me on the straights once she gets off the brakes.
 

SuboptimusPrime

Turbo Monkey
Aug 18, 2005
1,660
1,638
NorCack
Interesting. I feel like the Deliums have fairly supportive sidewalls and can get away with lower pressures that you even at 200 pounds. They definitely ride nicer at lower PSI and I've not had them roll off or do anything weird on 30mm rims. Do you really need 25psi up front?
 

Leafy

Monkey
Sep 13, 2019
573
366
Interesting. I feel like the Deliums have fairly supportive sidewalls and can get away with lower pressures that you even at 200 pounds. They definitely ride nicer at lower PSI and I've not had them roll off or do anything weird on 30mm rims. Do you really need 25psi up front?
I do have the narrower 28.5” i9 torch grade aluminum wheels which might be part of the issue. I didn’t try lower pressures, I kind of just threw a few more psi than my 29er trail bike at it, especially since I can’t get any tires to seal up decent on these wheels tubeless.
 

Fool

The Thing cannot be described
Sep 10, 2001
2,826
1,564
Brooklyn
Any other opinions on the latest iteration of the e13 DH grappler? Vital seemed to like it, and the local mail order place has them at an ok price right now, i.e., I could get 2 of 'em for the price of one Maxxis DHR or Asiago
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
86,446
24,962
media blackout
I have more rides on the deliums, I think part of hating them was that all my suspension had too much rebound damping, but the big thing was how squirmy they were. Like when I was like the 8th rider down upper cats paw this year, I thought I was gonna die in every berm because the front end just had to shift over an inch with the casing taking a set, that’s with 25psi and 140lb rider. I put my second t-anus insert in the front and that went away. They definitely have more drag than a kryptol F super sticky + dhr did max terra that’s on my wife’s bike, she just pulls away from me on the straights once she gets off the brakes.
Which casing? Something definitely sounds off.

Interesting. I feel like the Deliums have fairly supportive sidewalls and can get away with lower pressures that you even at 200 pounds. They definitely ride nicer at lower PSI and I've not had them roll off or do anything weird on 30mm rims. Do you really need 25psi up front?
I have the heavy duty casing, and with cush core I'm running like 20/22 front rear, and that's still pretty firm on a 30mm rim. Fwiw I'm 220lbs without gear.
 

Leafy

Monkey
Sep 13, 2019
573
366
Which casing? Something definitely sounds off.



I have the heavy duty casing, and with cush core I'm running like 20/22 front rear, and that's still pretty firm on a 30mm rim. Fwiw I'm 220lbs without gear.
Whatever the heavy casing and softest rubber is.
 

Jozz

Joe Dalton
Apr 18, 2002
5,910
7,461
SADL
Got some new to me plastic hoops that came with new Conti tires. Both are DH casing. Front is an Argotal super soft and rear is Xynotal soft.

So what's the preferred psi front the front Argotal? I'm down to 18psi and cornering grip is kinda sketchy. I'm around 160lbs. NE rocks & roots of the wet kind. Maybe a Kryptotal would do a better job?