comprehensive brake force comparison
- Thread starter frorider
- Start date
They should do some sort of brake force per £/$, might drop the Formula down a bit. 
Seriously though, some unexpected outcomes in that graph; Codes getting spanked and the performance of the Funn Drop Out which you don't see on too many bikes. Still, theres more to a brake than power though, I'd take a slight drop in power for ease of bleeding etc.
Seriously though, some unexpected outcomes in that graph; Codes getting spanked and the performance of the Funn Drop Out which you don't see on too many bikes. Still, theres more to a brake than power though, I'd take a slight drop in power for ease of bleeding etc.
would be nice if they showed a bigger graph so you can actually see the findings
That's easily the dumbest graph ever, what the hell is the point.
I agree with you, but sometimes it can be overwhelming and confusing to understand when too many variables are evaluated.They should do some sort of brake force per £/$, might drop the Formula down a bit.
haha
My saints rule
My saints rule
And people crack jokes at roadies with excel spreadsheets?
Agreed.
Am I reading that right that the Avid Codes are the weakest brakes you can buy?
Something doesn't seem right there......
Something doesn't seem right there......
Honestly, that would be nice if it were a bit more scientific or at least followed the standard test methodology that most people learn in a high school science class.
Briefly looking at some of the results and correlating them to my personal experiences with some of the products leads me to believe that there is some level of consistency with the testing method. At the same time not listing any of the variables, measurement tools, methods, etc... leaves alot of gaps in my mind as far as how genuine the test, results, and conclusions really are since there is no way to constructively peer review the test.
For example, there appears to be an inflection point at ~100N of force for nearly all the brakes, but we are unaware of why this is. This could be an indicator that something is wrong with the test since all of the results appear as though they are linear. Again maybe there isn't, but I would like to know why this is the case, and I would hope that the person conducted the test looked into this as well.
In anycase, it is pretty neat. I'm not at all surprised to see where my Avid Codes landed
Briefly looking at some of the results and correlating them to my personal experiences with some of the products leads me to believe that there is some level of consistency with the testing method. At the same time not listing any of the variables, measurement tools, methods, etc... leaves alot of gaps in my mind as far as how genuine the test, results, and conclusions really are since there is no way to constructively peer review the test.
For example, there appears to be an inflection point at ~100N of force for nearly all the brakes, but we are unaware of why this is. This could be an indicator that something is wrong with the test since all of the results appear as though they are linear. Again maybe there isn't, but I would like to know why this is the case, and I would hope that the person conducted the test looked into this as well.
In anycase, it is pretty neat. I'm not at all surprised to see where my Avid Codes landed
Top right corner of the webpage there are thumbnails that open larger pics
looks like they only had 3 data points (@ 50, 100, 150). just connecting the dots.
Whatever the case, not following or listing any sort of scientific procedure is a good way to lose any credibility in my eyes.
yeah, that does seem weird. everyone ive ridden seem to be pretty damn powerful, especially compared to the Elixrs which is somewhat buried in that graph think
you can also hit CTRL and scroll with your mouse wheel too, but having it spaced out a bit more would be nice too
thank you captain obvious.
of course there are other aspects to consider. but that doesn't mean it isn't interesting to actually measure things like weight, or braking force.
generally speaking, the german and UK mags try to quantify things like 'fork torsional rigidity' -- these attributes are not difficult to measure in a lab -- while US magazines tend to say things like 'felt moar stiffer' or 'stopped on a dime'.
Your assuming Bikeradar (aka MBUK) has credibility to start with...
i dont want to get involved in ins and out of the validity of the data presented but would like to point out the brakes were tested and data collected by an independent brake specialist ....god damn this useless brain of mine cant remember who it was now and cant find the mag either :-(
Anyway - I've got 2010 Ones which rule - end of!
Anyway - I've got 2010 Ones which rule - end of!
All I can say is that Deore M595 Win in my book for best bang for a buck.
Totally agree. No details on how it was performed so pretty useless.Honestly, that would be nice if it were a bit more scientific or at least followed the standard test methodology that most people learn in a high school science class.
Briefly looking at some of the results and correlating them to my personal experiences with some of the products leads me to believe that there is some level of consistency with the testing method. At the same time not listing any of the variables, measurement tools, methods, etc... leaves alot of gaps in my mind as far as how genuine the test, results, and conclusions really are since there is no way to constructively peer review the test.
For example, there appears to be an inflection point at ~100N of force for nearly all the brakes, but we are unaware of why this is. This could be an indicator that something is wrong with the test since all of the results appear as though they are linear. Again maybe there isn't, but I would like to know why this is the case, and I would hope that the person conducted the test looked into this as well.
In anycase, it is pretty neat. I'm not at all surprised to see where my Avid Codes landed
They need to put magura gustav on there. Without gustav's the whole thing feels cheap and shallow some how
The Codes must have gotten oil on the pads from bleeding them eleventeen times.
1/3 of the brakes look spot on (shimano/Formula)
1/3 are straight backward (Avid)
1/3 i are all squished together so i can't see em.
1/3 of the brakes look spot on (shimano/Formula)
1/3 are straight backward (Avid)
1/3 i are all squished together so i can't see em.
looks like shimano saints are the best...
Good thing this is a well validated test that really matches with experience, and its well quantified and documented. Looks like it doesn't matter how extended the braking period is, what heat build up there is, what type of pads are used, or anything stupid like that.
But yah, I'm blown away at how much stronger my saints are then anything else I've ever ridden.
Good thing this is a well validated test that really matches with experience, and its well quantified and documented. Looks like it doesn't matter how extended the braking period is, what heat build up there is, what type of pads are used, or anything stupid like that.
But yah, I'm blown away at how much stronger my saints are then anything else I've ever ridden.
another glaring point that sticks out to me is rotors.
rotor design, thickness, and diameter makes a HUGE difference. If these tests werent conducted on the same rotor, the whole experiment is shot.
rotor design, thickness, and diameter makes a HUGE difference. If these tests werent conducted on the same rotor, the whole experiment is shot.
there is a vid of a test somewhere in the archives of the site. I think they called it big brake test or something.
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/components/disc-brake-systems/product/code-brake-10-37431
lol
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/components/disc-brake-systems/product/code-brake-10-37431
lol
i love the cup and cone washer setup for my Avids. i think its a great idea
OK, I found this link which really clears things up. That OP's link was garbage, and I assumed that that was all there was documented pertaining to the test.
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/how-we-test-hydraulic-disc-brakes-24345
Nice little machine they have built there. Would have loved to see the fixture attachment to the actual levers in more detail.
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/how-we-test-hydraulic-disc-brakes-24345
Nice little machine they have built there. Would have loved to see the fixture attachment to the actual levers in more detail.
nice!
That's actually pretty impressive - but I gotta say there's no way Codes are that gutless, those things do have a fair bit of power. Certainly more than Elixirs.
the charts seem to show them being more powerful when they are wet
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/components/disc-brake-systems/product/code-brake-10-37431
Possibly, but I would have to say that in my experience with the Code's I have, the testing appears to be spot on. I have a sneaking suspicion that there has to be some sort of sealing, tolerance, or wear type issue with the Mag bodied Codes.
I've never really gutted them, but now that Winter is finally over, I'm going to take a good long hard look into what is causing them to perform so miserably. I know that it isn't the bleeding that is causing issues. I have 10 year old Magura Hydraulic rim brakes that haven't been touched once, and my Codes were a weekly problem all of last year. If I can figure out what is wrong with the design and how to rework them to perform correctly, I'll definitely post it up, because I know I'm not the only person that has had issues with Codes.
Just a small comment, you probably know this, but don't the Codes use DOT fluid? And therefor, DOT absorbs water while mineral oil does not...so theoretrically Avids need a yearly bleed, maggies need a bleed once....again, theoretrically.
I felt your brakes and they seemed ok, but with little bite. Seemed to be more of a pad/rotor issue than bleed/phantom lever doodlieing.
Actually that's entirely possible - water is a poor lubricant but it does turn any dust/debris (including dust from the brake pads themselves) into a highly abrasive mixture, hence why your pads get chewed out so quickly whenever you ride in the mud.the charts seem to show them being more powerful when they are wet
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/components/disc-brake-systems/product/code-brake-10-37431
Seriously though, Codes are fairly powerful brakes when they're working properly (which might be the critical issue really, they do seem problematic). They're no Saints but they are unquestionably stronger than Elixirs and the like.
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thanks, that is a helpful link. i figured they used the mfger's 6 inch rotor (since this test included xc and dh brakes) but nice to see that confirmed, along w/ the other test details.
the table format is more easy to read than the graph:
Dry Brakes data - pull force (N) vs decceleration (m/s²)
System 50N 100N 150N
Formula R1 3.52 6.26 7.37
Formula RX 2.21 4.86 6.42
Formula The One 4.6 7.64 8.69
Funn Drop In 3.44 5.99 6.91
Funn Drop Out 3.6 8.1 8.11
Hope M4 3.2 5.89 7.15
Hope Race 2.15 3.61 4.29
Hope Tech X2 2.44 4.4 6.3
Hope V2 3.53 6.74 8.29
Shimano Deore 3.18 6.25 8.31
Shimano Saint 4.15 7.48 9.22
Shimano SLX 2.84 5.73 7.82
Shimano XT 3 5.34 6.58
Shimano XTR 2.59 4.95 6.01
Avid Code 1.76 3.5 5.94
Avid Elixir CR 3.71 6.04 6.82
Avid Juicy 3.5 2.46 4.69 6.3
Gusset 2.98 5.81 7.39
Hayes Stroker Ace 3.65 6.12 7.48
Magura Julie 2.75 5.22 7.46
Magura Louise 3.65 6.42 7.66
Magura Marta 3.39 5.68 7.03
Quad Dime Pro 3.24 6.05 7.8
Quad Sting Pro 2.73 5.39 7.05
Sram XX 2.93 5.57 8.24
Tektro Auriga 2.8 5.45 7.64
Hayes Stroker Trial 3.41 5.41 6.68
Avid Elixier R 3.52 5.74 6.48
Avid Elixir 5 3.52 5.74 6.48
Hayes Stroker Gram 3.41 5.41 6.68
This is what i want to see
Not sure if anyone noticed, but the saints won the wet test as well.
Formula "the one" was just behind them.
I agree with people who said the codes should have been further up though, I've ridden all three of these brakes and I think the codes are close enough power wise. I suspect something went wrong with the test, or it was a bad batch of brakes (which, knowing avid is entirely possible).
Formula "the one" was just behind them.
I agree with people who said the codes should have been further up though, I've ridden all three of these brakes and I think the codes are close enough power wise. I suspect something went wrong with the test, or it was a bad batch of brakes (which, knowing avid is entirely possible).
Hey Udi, didn't you guys have some problems with the Saints when you were here? Most people I know around here liked the Saints in the beginning of the year and then had lots of problems later on and then switched to the Ones.Not sure if anyone noticed, but the saints won the wet test as well.
Formula "the one" was just behind them.
I agree with people who said the codes should have been further up though, I've ridden all three of these brakes and I think the codes are close enough power wise. I suspect something went wrong with the test, or it was a bad batch of brakes (which, knowing avid is entirely possible).
The Codes are kind of a hit or miss, it seems to me. I think it has to do with the four pistons and tolerances. Some are great and some are terrible.
From my experiences their test seems to be pretty accurate. The local shop here has such a hard time keeping everyone's totally cooked brakes running well. They do a good job but I wouldn't want to deal with so many fried brakes from all the big brands.
Yerp, to be honest I'm not sure why we still have brakes with such tiny pads and relatively small rotors - a 10" rotor and some pads that were say 25% bigger than Saint pads (which were already 25% bigger than the previous gen Saint pads) would solve a lot of problems as far as heat goes.
True that, pretty much the only reason I want to swap back to Code calipers from Elixirs is the fact they deal with heat so much better.Socket said: