[genpowell71]

If you think a guy trying to take your wallet is the same as someone trying to take your life you are sadly mistaken. However if that same guy takes your wallet and then after leaps and slits your wife or girlfriends throat while your shakin in your boots you're S.O.L. Obviously you dont understand the difference or don't think it can happen to you. While some of you may think CHL holders are looking for any excuse to pull our weapons and show how tough we are it is the oposite in reality. We simply have the tools and if properly trained may have a better outcome than a person with nothing. We choose not to be a victim and simply lay there and die. This is probably what you think most CHL holders wet dream situation. http://www.the-roberts.info/gallery/albums/GTFriends/collateral.mpg

Anyone who thinks changing your surroundings is going to keep you safe is also being naive. While staying alert of your surroundings you may have a better chance of identifying your attacker if it should happen without tools or the training you mine as well just stand there and close your eyes. And yes if we knew when and where an attacker would attack it would make it easy wouldn't it. The problem is you don't know when or where it could happen.

Statistics may say you have a better chance of being hit by a car most likely if you stand in the road. You might also think by never walking in the road your safe. And while you're in your little bubble you don't see the drunk guy avoiding cars and slamming onto the sidewalk right behind you. For those people who think CHL holders are paranoid, you might try thinking outside the box for once and you may have your eyes opened to reality.

Say what you will, the law of averages is still on my side. Besides, if your on a street in a busy city, you SHOULD be watching your surroundings. Does the average person give a f*uck what goes on around him? No. He's more concerned with his stock portfolio or what bar he/she is going to tonight. And yes to think that changing your surroundings makes you completely safe is ludicrious at best. BUT it will do more for making you safer than to just walk around the rundown urban areas. To think that ANYONE in this day and age is completely safe is nothing more than wishful thinking.
Am I against the CCW? Most certainly not. I own a couple Kimber .45s and on occasion (long trips, late at night) I do carry one. But to carry one just because I can? Sorry, no thanks.

 

[Jr_Bullit]

K - I have a question for y'all then...

So far, I don't think any ladies have yet responded or participated in this thread. I would be curious to know the number of women that carry concealed guns/mace/or other form of self-defense (besides knowing how to gouge someone's eyes out and kick em where it counts).

This is a debate I have pretty frequently...and my sweetie has been supportive as I try to think of ways to be more confident in my ability to defend myself. I'm not a big person (yes yes, hence the mods title for me ), and I travel a lot, alone for my company as their trainer.

Last year I was in New Orleans on Fat Tuesday for a series of classes I was teaching in AL and LA...I had no casual clothes with me, just suits, and went out on the street in the French Quarter where my hotel was to get a bite to eat. Well, on the way home from my dinner, book and keys in hand, I had to walk back to the hotel. The street was essentially empty but for bums and people in the shadows, and the revelers were back at least a full block or more away.

Hate to say it, but the 'if' has weighed on my mind since then. 'If' anything were to happen a) I'd have no form of self-defense really and b) who would take notice. Apathy in others is a trait I fear and hate.

But the flip side of the coin is, 'if' I had a gun, would it have mattered? Most likely any attacker would grab me when I wasn't looking or prepared, and with the kind of cash flow I have - I seriously doubt it's worth my life or sanity to protect my purse...

So, I'm curious what the ladies think on this subject. I go back and forth between the desire to have "something" I know would stop a would be attacker or change a threatening situation into my favor, and the preference to not be in a situation I would regret the rest of my life...

Anyone have any statistics on women who have been victims of an attack, the number that carried a concealed weapon, the number that successfully used that concealed weapon to protect themselves?

 

[mhpoole]

"Am I against the CCW? Most certainly not. I own a couple Kimber .45s and on occasion (long trips, late at night) I do carry one. But to carry one just because I can? Sorry, no thanks."

Im glad you think bad things will only happen when your on long trips late at night. If we could pick the time and place wouldn't that be nice.

 

[largextracheese]

Wow. I'm glad I'm reading this post afterall. It really has opened my eyes as to why we have such a violent society. People carrying guns around just for the heck of it. Kinda like a keychain....... not linked to keys to open doors, but an object to close the door on lives. Too bad so many people live in fear. Living in fear is not living.

 

[Silver]

"Am I against the CCW? Most certainly not. I own a couple Kimber .45s and on occasion (long trips, late at night) I do carry one. But to carry one just because I can? Sorry, no thanks."

Im glad you think bad things will only happen when your on long trips late at night. If we could pick the time and place wouldn't that be nice.

You eat healthy, right? Always wear seatbelts, fly instead of drive, and wear a helmet all the time? Anti-oxidants. No preservatives. Didn't drive as a teenage boy. And, perhaps most importantly, you managed to select parents that had genes for longevity, right?

Now, if the genes for paranoia and longevity happen to overlap, that may help to explain this thread...

 

[valve bouncer]

When you get this gun do you also get a ten gallon hat and spurs and get to say "Howdy" a lot? Just askin'.........

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

wait. all this is naive. all pro-gun stances assume that when everybody start packign they will not modify enviroment variables.

lets say we all join the NRA, and we all carry guns with us for "protection".

there is a similar situation going on in the ghettos os Caracas, Venezuela. everybody is packing for protection. the wettest dream of the nra, entire communities where even grannies are packing. must be safety heaven!!!

but does that really makes people safe?
dont the guettos in Caracas have one of the highest crime and murder rates in south america?

you know why is that??

its because thieves SWITCH tactics. once everybody knows everybody is packing, they just switch tactics.
they give up the old and uncertain "aim and give me your wallet" in favor of less risky tactics for themselves.

they just shoot you upfront, without any warning, (so you dont have the chance to shoot back) then they take the wallet, or your 100 dollars sneakers of your dead body. just like they did in Caracas when everybody knew everybody started packing.

dont underestimate thieves. once everybody start packign, enviroment will respond with new (and usually more extreme and life-costly) tactics to this.

 

[clancy98]

laughable

 

[BSEVEER]

I wonder if I could get a gun rack for my bike like Bobby Hill.

 

[genpowell71]

I wonder if I could get a gun rack for my bike like Bobby Hill.

Depends, are you getting the machine gun rack or just the standard rifle rack? If you get the machine gun, you get the ammo carriers with it

 

[genpowell71]

When you get this gun do you also get a ten gallon hat and spurs and get to say "Howdy" a lot? Just askin'.........

YOu dont get the hat till you shoot a bystander

 

[genpowell71]

"Am I against the CCW? Most certainly not. I own a couple Kimber .45s and on occasion (long trips, late at night) I do carry one. But to carry one just because I can? Sorry, no thanks."

Im glad you think bad things will only happen when your on long trips late at night. If we could pick the time and place wouldn't that be nice.

Never once did I insinuate that bad things only happen at night. I think you need to stop reading into everything

 

[Changleen]

wait. all this is naive. all pro-gun stances assume that when everybody start packign they will not modify enviroment variables.

Most of them can't spell it even...

 

[manimal]

You eat healthy, right? Always wear seatbelts, fly instead of drive, and wear a helmet all the time? Anti-oxidants. No preservatives. Didn't drive as a teenage boy. And, perhaps most importantly, you managed to select parents that had genes for longevity, right?

Now, if the genes for paranoia and longevity happen to overlap, that may help to explain this thread...

wow, i forgot..the OC really IS like the tv show! if only you had x-ray vision and could see how many fools there are out there that are armed with some form of deadly weapon and intend to use it at the drop of a hat. heck, especially on a standoff-ish leftist like yourself silver.

anyone that thinks a person is simply paranoid for carrying a gun obviously has led a sheltered life. come hang w/ me at my job for a few days and see how many guns/knives and other dangerous weapons i get off of people. and then correlate that info into how many of those persons were arrested for violent crimes, and then ask them why they committed the crime. a common answer is "because he disrespected me". ummmmkay....so you stabbed him in the head because he disrespected you?

most people don't see this side of society, they are generally sheltered from it by location or stature. however, from the moment you realize that there are A LOT of people out there that believe killing you and taking your wallet is no different to them than running a stop sign.....you start to realize how unsafe we all really are.

live healthy, exercise, eat well......get in a car wreck and die healthy.

live healthy, exercise, eat well.......have someone attempt to kidnap your 4 yr old daughter or use her as a shield after robbing a bank and spend the rest of your life wondering if you might have been able to prevent it? i'll take the car wreck. we're all gonna die someday....but i refuse to let harm come to my family as i stand by and do nothing. as a cop, i know that we probably won't be there when stuff happens...we're more of a reconciliation crew than a preventive crew.....so protect yourself.

cch is obviously not for everyone. we get people down here that will get the permit and start showing off to the crowd and will get involved in stuff they don't need to be involved with. fortunately, here in NC, we have a statute that considers that behavior as "going armed to the terror of the public". it's an arrestable offense and the gun is seized. most of the folks that do carry are very responsible and don't flaunt it and i'd much rather have a level headed citizen with a gun than the thugs, but ......the thugs have more guns than normal citizens could ever imagine.

 

[Silver]

anyone that thinks a person is simply paranoid for carrying a gun obviously has led a sheltered life. come hang w/ me at my job for a few days and see how many guns/knives and other dangerous weapons i get off of people. and then correlate that info into how many of those persons were arrested for violent crimes, and then ask them why they committed the crime. a common answer is "because he disrespected me". ummmmkay....so you stabbed him in the head because he disrespected you?

You should not be allowed to use the word correlate in a sentence until you learn what sample bias is.

 

[manimal]

hmmm, must be just your neck of the woods.

check out Kennesaw, GA.....made an ordinance REQUIRING all residents to own a gun and their violent crime rate was 4 times less the very next year.

here's just one of many articles about the town here

wait. all this is naive. all pro-gun stances assume that when everybody start packign they will not modify enviroment variables.

lets say we all join the NRA, and we all carry guns with us for "protection".

there is a similar situation going on in the ghettos os Caracas, Venezuela. everybody is packing for protection. the wettest dream of the nra, entire communities where even grannies are packing. must be safety heaven!!!

but does that really makes people safe?
dont the guettos in Caracas have one of the highest crime and murder rates in south america?

you know why is that??

its because thieves SWITCH tactics. once everybody knows everybody is packing, they just switch tactics.
they give up the old and uncertain "aim and give me your wallet" in favor of less risky tactics for themselves.

they just shoot you upfront, without any warning, (so you dont have the chance to shoot back) then they take the wallet, or your 100 dollars sneakers of your dead body. just like they did in Caracas when everybody knew everybody started packing.

dont underestimate thieves. once everybody start packign, enviroment will respond with new (and usually more extreme and life-costly) tactics to this.

 

[largextracheese]

Hah! Listen to yourself man!! Everybody carry guns.......yeah, that's the solution. Scary stuff indeed. Maybe if I only wear yellow on mondays, the crime rate will decrease?? Now that's something to ponder.....

 

[manimal]

Hah! Listen to yourself man!! Everybody carry guns.......yeah, that's the solution. Scary stuff indeed. Maybe if I only wear yellow on mondays, the crime rate will decrease?? Now that's something to ponder.....

ummmm.......just trying to show some FACTS here.

 

[Tully]

ummmm.......just trying to show some FACTS here.

That's a fascinating piece of information; pretty counter-intuitive, IMO. Do you know of any other similar examples?

 

[manimal]

i haven't heard of any other places actually MANDATING that every household is required to have firearm. it would be an interesting experiment to see how it would work in different portions of the US.

Sub Topic:

What are your feelings on H.R. 218 - FEDERAL LAW ALLOWING ACTIVE DUTY AND RETIRED POLICE OFFICERS TO CARRY CONCEALED ANYWHERE IN THE US ?

Before this law was passed last year, I was allowed to carry my gun concealed anywhere in the state of NC. About 24-ish other states would also allow me to carry concealed as long as i had my badge/credentials with me. the bummer was, if i was going to visit family in FL, i could carry through NC, and GA but i'd have to put the gun in the case out of reach while driving through SC.

Here are some quotes for why the law was passed:

" Police combat violent criminals every day, in every corner of the nation. These brave law enforcement professionals are issued firearms in recognition of the grave risks associated with this duty. Through training and experience, stepping in to save a citizen in distress often becomes second nature, on the job or off. There are countless incidents where off-duty and retired officers put themselves in jeapordy to save lives and stop violent crimes..........In this age of terrorism, America has never faced a greater need to have more watchful eyes on the street-- people with the skills, training and equipment necessary to stop a developing situation before it becomes a disaster."

-and-

"The life-saving benefits extend to the officers as well. Unlike cops, criminals are "on duty" around the clock. Many have knowingly targeted police officers and their families, recognizing that the officer was likely to be unarmed at home."


read more here: http://www.leaa.org/218/summary.html

So....do you agree/disagree with this new law? why or why not?

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

i haven't heard of any other places actually MANDATING that every household is required to have firearm. it would be an interesting experiment to see how it would work in different portions of the US.

Sub Topic:

What are your feelings on H.R. 218 - FEDERAL LAW ALLOWING ACTIVE DUTY AND RETIRED POLICE OFFICERS TO CARRY CONCEALED ANYWHERE IN THE US ?

Before this law was passed last year, I was allowed to carry my gun concealed anywhere in the state of NC. About 24-ish other states would also allow me to carry concealed as long as i had my badge/credentials with me. the bummer was, if i was going to visit family in FL, i could carry through NC, and GA but i'd have to put the gun in the case out of reach while driving through SC.

Here are some quotes for why the law was passed:

" Police combat violent criminals every day, in every corner of the nation. These brave law enforcement professionals are issued firearms in recognition of the grave risks associated with this duty. Through training and experience, stepping in to save a citizen in distress often becomes second nature, on the job or off. There are countless incidents where off-duty and retired officers put themselves in jeapordy to save lives and stop violent crimes..........In this age of terrorism, America has never faced a greater need to have more watchful eyes on the street-- people with the skills, training and equipment necessary to stop a developing situation before it becomes a disaster."

-and-

"The life-saving benefits extend to the officers as well. Unlike cops, criminals are "on duty" around the clock. Many have knowingly targeted police officers and their families, recognizing that the officer was likely to be unarmed at home."


read more here: http://www.leaa.org/218/summary.html

So....do you agree/disagree with this new law? why or why not?

actually if i were a cop like you... i would wish the least posible amount of people outside my force would have guns, of the lowest possible firepower.

we would have to check how close is that town you talk about to other towns in the US.
how big is the town?? how diverse, ethnically, economically, politically and in age? what about literacy?
plus your example doesnt show the effect of such law in the surroundings....
the fact that crime rates dropped in such town, doesnt mean that crime didnt move to the outskirts of such town...
i´d have to see the overall change in crime rates in a bigger area including surroundings to draw a more general conclusion....

its not the same to enforce such law in a small town of 800 where everybody knows each other, as to enforce it in new york city, or atlanta...

like, if we mandate firearms in the nice areas of Lima, where there is a private guard post literally in every corner, and there is a patrol car assigned to every 16 sq blocks..... of course, the almost non-existing crime rates will probably drop even further...... but maybe thievery will move somewhere else in the city.... so overall the effect on the whole society might not be as good as you would think in the first place.
enforce such law in a ghetto.. and it will probably happen the same thing as in venezuela.

in my opinion, overall in society, there is far more people uneducated and unconsiderated enough to shoot at anything, than people educated and self-controlled enough to fire their guns only when its the last resort....

 

[Tully]

I assume this law does not apply to police officers who were kicked off the force? If not, then as long as it isn't mandatory, I guess I'm OK with cops carrying concealed, more so than average civilians. I don't know whether this took place, but I think multiple trials in differenct places should happen before a law regarding gun control is passed. If it doesn't result in a drop in crime, I would say no to it, because I don't like the idea of people having guns if it's not helping anyone.