Seems to be a hot debate in RF rights. Some folks welcome sharing, as with some providers even promoting this act. I personally feel that if you have wireless fidelity RF signal for WLAN access, you should either run it as a closed network or utilize encryption (WEP). Most people who setup Wi-Fi for personal use, tends to run no encryption and the signal obviously travels freely to those who pick it up and use their connection. The question is....Is it legal for someone to pick the RF signal or is it the responsibility of the access point to secure their signal or encrypt it to keep unwanted users access.
Connecting to unsecured hotspots (is it stealing)
- Thread starter RDU
- Start date
If you found a twenty dollar bill on the sidewalk, nobody is around, so you take it, is it stealing?
I think leaving your wireless network unsecured is the equivalent of leaving your garage open with all your expensive stuff in there.
Sure, if someone takes it, it's stealing. But you really should keep your garage closed
Sure, if someone takes it, it's stealing. But you really should keep your garage closed
Just because normal users are uneducated doesn't mean it is your right to steal it. It is their ignorance but I still consider it theft.
That said I think wireless has moved to fast for the masses. Too many people use it with no knowledge of how to secure it or even really how to use it. Pretty scary stuff actually when you get on an enterprise level.
That said I think wireless has moved to fast for the masses. Too many people use it with no knowledge of how to secure it or even really how to use it. Pretty scary stuff actually when you get on an enterprise level.
Good analogy. I was trying to think of one and just couldn't come up with one.Originally posted by Echo
I think leaving your wireless network unsecured is the equivalent of leaving your garage open with all your expensive stuff in there.
Sure, if someone takes it, it's stealing. But you really should keep your garage closed
I only agree partially. It is more like leaving your garage open, and somebody walks in, looks around, takes your bike for a quick spin, then leaves with no harm done. That sounds more like trespassing, at worst.Originally posted by Echo
I think leaving your wireless network unsecured is the equivalent of leaving your garage open with all your expensive stuff in there.
Sure, if someone takes it, it's stealing. But you really should keep your garage closed
On the other hand, if somebody got on a wireless network and stole some files or information (stealing), or performed some malicious acts (vandalism), that's different.
yes and no, you pay for internet service. Your time online you pay for probably at a monthly rate, someone comes in and uses the service you pay for, you don't get it back, they used the service. Now yes it doesnt directly affect you but at the same time it is still stealing.
Still sounds more like trespassing than stealing to me.
To use someones service? Hmm... I dunno, problem is, as mentioned above technology has moved fast, and law hasn't stuck with it, copyright issues on the web are a joke I can tell you from experience:angry:, connection to unprotected hotspots, spam emails, spyware, etc... either way I think it is stealing
A lot of isp's charge for bandwidth over a certain amount, you don't get that back.
The original post doesn't say anything about using the wireless LAN to access the internet. If it is used for that purpose you could make a case for stealing.
Actually, a wireless LAN is exactly that - a wireless Local Area Network. I can think of many installations that are used for purposes other than internet access. Say, printing, remote point of sale devices, terminal services. Please show me in the orignal post where it says 'hotspot'.Originally posted by RDU
Wi-Fi...Hotspots are access points to the Internet
FOr the record I have no idea what you guys are talking about.......
but check the title of the thread? "HOT SPOT"
DOH! You got me.Originally posted by RhinofromWA
FOr the record I have no idea what you guys are talking about.......
but check the title of the thread? "HOT SPOT"
I have free WAP browsing on my phone because T-Mobile hasn't closed the ports. They don't advertise it, but it's there, and people aren't getting charged for it. Meanwhile, the people that actually pay for this service are forking over $20 a month for something they could be getting free.
Bottom line is it's stealing, I think that since people can't actually see or touch what they've stolen they think it's no big deal.
Bottom line is it's stealing, I think that since people can't actually see or touch what they've stolen they think it's no big deal.
The best thing is I have no idea what exactly you guys are talking about...I am the uneducated public.
Haha Rhino hotspots are basically a cloud in which users can access a wireless network, in many cases these clouds are created by an access point of some kind. Take for instance the wireless router Honeywell and I have in our apartment, if you were to sit in our parking lot (within the cloud) you could theoretically access our network and gain access to the internet etc, however there are security measures users can take to prevent this, passwords, keys, etc so you'd have to be "in the know" for that network to get access. Unsecured hotspots are clouds that aren't protected and thus people can connect to, in many cases without the user knowing.Originally posted by RhinofromWA
The best thing is I have no idea what exactly you guys are talking about...I am the uneducated public.
I have to agree with Ghost rider on this one.
What happends when you just happen to turn on your laptop and it has a wireless card ( like mine ) , your intention is not to connect to a hot spot , heck you didn't even know it was there . but your startup automatically detects it and connects to it ( like mine ) and automatically downloads my mail.
this actually happened to me once. I was waiting to get my hair cut, turned on my laptop and connected to a wireless , of some small company on the 2nd floor that had no encryption. I was tempted to go offer my "consulting" expertise to leck them down , but I didn't. and I didn't "sniff" thre network, but I did hop onto the
for a quick browse of the lounge.
how would you get to stuff on a computer just by like hooking up to there internet or whatever. yes i am kinda not knowing about this subject. know a little but nothin really.
If you are cruising around a city center you are going to be in a lot of hot zones. Some are meant to be for public use - like at a coffee shop. How the heck is one supposed to know if an unsecure network is private or public? If companies don't want people using there BW, they need to secure their access.
Yes, but even though it is for public use, you are still supposed to pay. Take the Starbucks/T-Mobile deal. I go into Starbucks with my laptop and wireless card and click on IE and I'll be directed to a T-Mobile site were I can pay for hourly web usage.
It doesn't matter if it's public or private. For the record I don't know of ANY company or organization that has a hot zone that is "free" to public use.
Yes they should secure it if they don't want anyone using it, but because they don't does that mean you have the right to use it? Like someone said, if I leave my garage door open that doesn't get you off the hook for walking in and stealing my stuff.
My wireless network is unsecure......but my nearest neighbor is too far away to be able to hit it. Country livin'
OK , I just ha a Chat with My Boss about this very subject. He is our Chief Technology Officer, he is very well versed in the whole network/Radio/security thing. and at this point in time, unless there is a Pop up disclaimer claiming it is private Network for authorized persons only, it is not illegal, to use the network for non invasive network transactions.
Well just a few minutes from my office is a free hotspot. The only reason I know about it was that I had to get a new phone and the guys at the Cingular place were telling me that it was there. For months it wasn't advertised. Only recently was there any advertising about it. I don't know if they intend to keep it free or if its a trial to see if enough folks use it. There is no pop up or anything to indicate that you shouldn't be there or pay to be there or otherwise (ala Ridemonkey's example).
The screwy thing is that if I sit the table in one corner with my back against the building, I can not only get on that wireless network but 2 others.... again without warning or without notice. How exactly am I supposed to know where I am or am not supposed to be?
I know that I have to post no trespassing signs on my mountain property at 20 ft intervals (or intervals where one sign is visible from the next) and maintain them if I am to have any right to prosecute those that are on my property when I don't want them there. So I think Ghostrider might have hit upon it.
Of course if they steal or vandalize that is an entirely different matter.
I think a major difference here comes from whether or not you even recognize/understand what you're doing.
The average user, if they turn on their laptop and connect to the internet, isn't going to have even the slightest idea that they might be doing something against the rules or illegal.
I agree with the assessment of this as tresspassing, mostly - except that often, it's probably unintentional tresspassing. If you're going for a walk in the woods, and you don't know where your property ends, and you find a small pond where there are no signs posted, you're going to think "cool, I've got a pond on my property", not "Am I tresspassing? Is this illegal? Should I tell someone? What should I do?"
The fact is, the hotspot owner, as well as the owner of the pond's property, should take precautions to ensure people are not unknowingly tresspassing. And yes, there will be teenage hoodlums who come drink and swim in the pond, knowingly tresspassing, but if there are signs, at least you've got 'em nailed for the crime.
The average user, if they turn on their laptop and connect to the internet, isn't going to have even the slightest idea that they might be doing something against the rules or illegal.
I agree with the assessment of this as tresspassing, mostly - except that often, it's probably unintentional tresspassing. If you're going for a walk in the woods, and you don't know where your property ends, and you find a small pond where there are no signs posted, you're going to think "cool, I've got a pond on my property", not "Am I tresspassing? Is this illegal? Should I tell someone? What should I do?"
The fact is, the hotspot owner, as well as the owner of the pond's property, should take precautions to ensure people are not unknowingly tresspassing. And yes, there will be teenage hoodlums who come drink and swim in the pond, knowingly tresspassing, but if there are signs, at least you've got 'em nailed for the crime.
wi-fi are radio waves... if your neighbor is blasting his radio and you hear it are you stealing?
Your neighbor isn't getting charged by the amount of bandwidth his stereo is using up. Also, that is involuntary.
If your neighbor has XM radio (i.e. monthly bill), and you set up a little microphone to transmit it over to your stereo, then it falls under the same discussion as we are having now.