[golgiaparatus]

Some interestin, contradictory and some slightly azzholish remarks as well from a typically pretty humble guy:

First he says: "I would welcome (Armstrong) into the team with open arms... I have always had the highest regard for him and would be delighted to be in the same team as him."

Now he says: "I think I've earned the right to be the leader of a team without having to fight for it (So has Levi & Kloden, but are they whining about it? Nope), and with Armstrong, there could be difficult situations in which the team would put him first and that would harm me... I intend to stay because I am under contract until 2010, but I have received a good many offers from other teams."

Then he goes on to say this about Levi: "it’s not normal that someone that is supposed to be working for you finishes less than one minute back in the GC... He pulled a little (at Angliru), but Valverde attacked very early and dropped him”.

Sounds to me like he is a little threatened by Levi... Levi is a monster in the TTs, that's why he was so close. His comments come off like, well, kinda whiny.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

A roadie rider being whiny???!!?!

You don't say....

 

[Westy]

I think it is pretty safe to say that if Levi rode on one of lance's teams he wouldn't be even close to the podium. He just wouldn't be allowed to ride that hard for himself.

 

[sanjuro]

Some interestin, contradictory and some slightly azzholish remarks as well from a typically pretty humble guy:

First he says: "I would welcome (Armstrong) into the team with open arms... I have always had the highest regard for him and would be delighted to be in the same team as him."

Now he says: "I think I've earned the right to be the leader of a team without having to fight for it (So has Levi & Kloden, but are they whining about it? Nope), and with Armstrong, there could be difficult situations in which the team would put him first and that would harm me... I intend to stay because I am under contract until 2010, but I have received a good many offers from other teams."

Then he goes on to say this about Levi: "it’s not normal that someone that is supposed to be working for you finishes less than one minute back in the GC... He pulled a little (at Angliru), but Valverde attacked very early and dropped him”.

Sounds to me like he is a little threatened by Levi... Levi is a monster in the TTs, that's why he was so close. His comments come off like, well, kinda whiny.

One problem with bike racing is the lack of specific roles for the stars of the team.

Take basketball. You know the 7 foot guy is going to be the center and the 6 foot is going to be the point guard. You run plays based around assigned roles, and if the center is standing on the 3 point line or the pg is posting up, their next spot is on the bench.

Bike racing there are assigned roles, and the best teams never deviate from them. Like during the Tour, Hincapie would lead early because he was not a great climber, but Heras would hang back until the final climb.

But anyone could do anything during a race, and possibly, Levi failed in his role as super domestique.

 

[OGRipper]

These comments strike me as selfish and immature ramblings of a 25 year old who has been thrust into the world sporting spotlight. He wouldn't be where he is without Lance and this team - and maybe Lance wants to remind him of that.

And to say Levi failed doesn't make sense. Astana had two great riders up there in the GC. Contador got all the domstique help he needed, and he won the race. If Contador needed more of Levi's help he would have received it, but if Contador crashed out or had some kind of meltdown the TEAM would still have been ok given Levi's position. I don't see where they compromised Contador to have Levi up there - more likely, Contador just feels threatened.

 

[golgiaparatus]

These comments strike me as selfish and immature ramblings of a 25 year old who has been thrust into the world sporting spotlight. He wouldn't be where he is without Lance and this team - and maybe Lance wants to remind him of that.

And to say Levi failed doesn't make sense. Astana had two great riders up there in the GC. Contador got all the domstique help he needed, and he won the race. If Contador needed more of Levi's help he would have received it, but if Contador crashed out or had some kind of meltdown the TEAM would still have been ok given Levi's position. I don't see where they compromised Contador to have Levi up there - more likely, Contador just feels threatened.

I totally agree. Levi was ahead of contador for a long time. Astana had 2 cards to play, and they did... that's smart. Contador's lead was threatened on the last ITT If he had had a crappy time trial he would have lost to levi, and whose fault would that have been?

Fact is that with Lance, if he can get into form... Contador will be hard pressed to make big time on lance in the mtns and then in the TT's lance will absolutely smoke him. Lance was way faster than Levi in the ITTs, only the super specialists could hang with him (i.e. Zabriskie, Ullrich, etc.)

Anyway, I think thats basically it. He feels threatened, by Levi and now really threatened by Lance. The funny part is that he says that he's earned the right to be leader... what, more so than Lance? Not at the TDF.

 

[maddog17]

A roadie rider being whiny???!!?!

You don't say....

next you'll be telling me that soccer players always take a dive with the slightest contact!!

 

[sanjuro]

Well, I can't defend his churlishness, but it can be difficult when two guys can win and there is not a clear leader.

Take La Vie Claire. The year before LeMond's first victory, he sat up on the winning break with Stephan Roche to allow Hinault to catch up.

The next year, Hinault tried to drop LeMond on Alpe De Huez, which worked ok since it was just pacing.

Since Contrador is the man for the Vuelta, no doubts about that, Levi should sacrifice everything for him. Anything else is a failure by the team director.

 

[OGRipper]

Since Contrador is the man for the Vuelta, no doubts about that, Levi should sacrifice everything for him. Anything else is a failure by the team director.

Going 1-2 is a failure? Really?

What you're saying might be true for other teams, but not for this Astana squad. Hindsight is crystal clear, of course, but they were in a unique position of having two riders who were very capable of winning the race, and I see no problem with them hedging their bet on Contador. Especially since this was the first race in which Contador was the heavy favorite going in - he has not yet really been tested under that kind of pressure, whereas Levi has been racing a lot longer. Had a situation presented itself where Levi absolutely had to sacrifice his GC position, I think it's safe to say he would have, especially if it happened late in the race after the key climbing stages.

Regardless, I still hope to see Lance race AGAINST Contador. Even better if it's a pissed off Contador racing for another team and carrying a grudge from being shoved aside by the comeback Texan. If that happens, Lance will probably be made Alberto's bitch in the mountains, and the question will be whether he can make it up in the TTs to take the win. I have no idea, but it'll be fun to watch.

 

[JRogers]

Regardless, I still hope to see Lance race AGAINST Contador. Even better if it's a pissed off Contador racing for another team and carrying a grudge from being shoved aside by the comeback Texan. If that happens, Lance will probably be made Alberto's bitch in the mountains, and the question will be whether he can make it up in the TTs to take the win. I have no idea, but it'll be fun to watch.

Definitely. I wouldn't fault Contador for jumping ship. With a good team, he could win against Lance or, really, anyone else out there right now. You know sure well that if Armstrong came in, everyone would be working for him regardless of their own abilities. Who wants to play second fiddle when they know they have more talent?

As for Levi....well, I'm not a fan of him or anything, but if the time trial were longer and he did win it all.... thems the breaks....

 

[golgiaparatus]

Well, I can't defend his churlishness, but it can be difficult when two guys can win and there is not a clear leader.

Take La Vie Claire. The year before LeMond's first victory, he sat up on the winning break with Stephan Roche to allow Hinault to catch up.

The next year, Hinault tried to drop LeMond on Alpe De Huez, which worked ok since it was just pacing.

Since Contrador is the man for the Vuelta, no doubts about that, Levi should sacrifice everything for him. Anything else is a failure by the team director.

Totally disagree. Levi was sitting at #1 or #2 the whole race. Failure by the team director would have been throwing the 2nd podium spot away just to protect someone who didn't need protection.

 

[golgiaparatus]

Going 1-2 is a failure? Really?

What you're saying might be true for other teams, but not for this Astana squad. Hindsight is crystal clear, of course, but they were in a unique position of having two riders who were very capable of winning the race, and I see no problem with them hedging their bet on Contador. Especially since this was the first race in which Contador was the heavy favorite going in - he has not yet really been tested under that kind of pressure, whereas Levi has been racing a lot longer. Had a situation presented itself where Levi absolutely had to sacrifice his GC position, I think it's safe to say he would have, especially if it happened late in the race after the key climbing stages.

Regardless, I still hope to see Lance race AGAINST Contador. Even better if it's a pissed off Contador racing for another team and carrying a grudge from being shoved aside by the comeback Texan. If that happens, Lance will probably be made Alberto's bitch in the mountains, and the question will be whether he can make it up in the TTs to take the win. I have no idea, but it'll be fun to watch.

I don't understand why everyone thinks that Alberto can climb better than lance could? Remember 7 straight years of this:

Hell, I hope Contador goes to another team and it motivates lance to whip his ass.

 

[sanjuro]

Well, then you have to think of it this way:

Contrador, who won the Tour De France, wants to leave Astana because of how he perceives he was treated.

Now will another team with great riders offer 100% support as an enticement? Yes.

So if the goal for Astana was to be fair, they have done it. If the goal was to keep Contrador happy, they have failed.

Cycling is not like American sports. There is a team leader, and there is everyone else.

 

[golgiaparatus]

Cycling is not like American sports. There is a team leader, and there is everyone else.

Unless your CSC with the Schlecks and Sastre a, or Astana, or T-mobile back in the day when they had Kloden, The Jan, and Vino, or Casse with Valverde and Pererio.

Foot in mouth... aaaand... go.

I think its a case of an immature, whiny, cocky young spaniard. Next he'll start talking about himself in the 3rd person... and shooting an imaginary gun at the cameras when he wins

 

[sanjuro]

Unless your CSC with the Schlecks and Sastre a, or Astana, or T-mobile back in the day when they had Kloden, The Jan, and Vino, or Casse with Valverde and Pererio.

Foot in mouth... aaaand... go.

I think its a case of an immature, whiny, cocky young spaniard. Next he'll start talking about himself in the 3rd person... and shooting an imaginary gun at the cameras when he wins

It depends on the team and the goals.

With Classics teams, where anyone can go down in the rain and the cobbles, you needed several leaders.

With Tour teams, the ones that WIN have a defined team leader and everyone supports him.

I point out Discovery because everyone knows Discovery. Take Tom Boonen. He sacrificed everything for Hincapie in Paris-Roubaix. I didn't see Hincapie take one pull, then he fell into the ditch.

Do you think Boonen left USPS because he wanted to be second fiddle?

Read a bunch of stories about domestiques. It is can be heart breaking that these guys have the talent to win but work solely for their leader.

BTW, how many Tours did CSC win? Who else besides Jan won on T-Mobile?

Finally, I have no idea if Contrador is a whiny bitch. I am just saying he will probably move because he feels he is mistreated, and if wins several more Tours, people will forget that he complained about not being supported.

 

[golgiaparatus]

It depends on the team and the goals.

With Classics teams, where anyone can go down in the rain and the cobbles, you needed several leaders.

With Tour teams, the ones that WIN have a defined team leader and everyone supports him.

I point out Discovery because everyone knows Discovery. Take Tom Boonen. He sacrificed everything for Hincapie in Paris-Roubaix. I didn't see Hincapie take one pull, then he fell into the ditch.

Do you think Boonen left USPS because he wanted to be second fiddle?

Read a bunch of stories about domestiques. It is can be heart breaking that these guys have the talent to win but work solely for their leader.

BTW, how many Tours did CSC win? Who else besides Jan won on T-Mobile?

Finally, I have no idea if Contrador is a whiny bitch. I am just saying he will probably move because he feels he is mistreated, and if wins several more Tours, people will forget that he complained about not being supported.

All I'm saying is that there are lots of teams that have multiple cards and they play them... which makes your above statement, about only having 1 team leader and everyone else always sacrificing everything for them, inaccurate. Sure, thats the case when you have only 1 guy that can do the job, but if you have 2 or even 3... one has to show he is the strongest before the others are going to throw away their chances at getting on the podium.