[stoney]

No, I'm not saying geographical area is more important.
I'm saying a localized, high density county shouldn't drown out the voice/interests of less populated areas.
Ask your relatives in maine how they feel about the new crop of downeast elected politicians.

Population density isn't some badge of merit that makes one more important.

Let's try that exact statement from the viewpoint of somebody who lives in a city:
I'm saying a large, low density county shouldn't drown out the voice/interests of higher populated areas. Ask your relatives in NYC how they feel about the new crop of backwoods elected politicians.

Population is population. Just because people choose to live densely doesn't make their voice less important than those who choose to live less densely. The Senate exists to give dirt an equal voice; House to give population a voice. The house has a constrained 435 seats and was constrained so rural states wouldn't lose their power as the country moved more urban in the early 1900's. To give proper representation based on current US population, it should have at least another 800 using the Wyoming rule and if the Congressional Apportionment Amendment had actually been processed (it passed) we'd have almost 6500.

 

[jonKranked]

Do you think that the views of white, straight people should drown out the interests of others?
There's more of them after all.

fun facts: in both NYC and LA, while whites are the largest ethnic group, in neither city are they more than 50% of the population.

 

[jonKranked]

more fun facts:

out of the top 5 largest cities in the US by population, only Houston has a white population greater than 50% of the total population.

 

[Pesqueeb]

So we're agreeing that a popular vote would be a better system?

What I'm reading so far is "Yes". Except for when it's not.

Or something

 

[jonKranked]

The house has a constrained 435 seats and was constrained so rural states wouldn't lose their power as the country moved more urban in the early 1900's. To give proper representation based on current US population, it should have at least another 800 using the Wyoming rule and if the Congressional Apportionment Amendment had actually been processed (it passed) we'd have almost 6500.

more fun facts:

as of 2015, 62.7% of the US population lives in cities.

as of 2019, 84% of the country lives in urban areas.

as of 2015, 19.3% of the population lives in rural areas


(note: the discrepancies in % totals is due to the difference in the year those statistics were calculated)

 

[stoney]

Do you think that the views of white, straight people should drown out the interests of others?
There's more of them after all.

In the rural, non-urban communities. You just looped back on what you've been saying for the last 10 posts. Urban centers are more diversified, end of conversation. The map below shows it well. It also shows why Wyoming should have less input than say, Atlanta; there are just less people so the voice of the majority outweighs the minority.

The Racial Dot Map: One Dot Per Person for the Entire U.S.

racialdotmap.demographics.coopercenter.org

 

[Pesqueeb]

In the rural, non-urban communities. You just looped back on what you've been saying for the last 10 posts. Urban centers are more diversified, end of conversation. The map below shows it well. It also shows why Wyoming should have less input than say, Atlanta; there are just less people so the voice of the majority outweighs the minority.

The Racial Dot Map: One Dot Per Person for the Entire U.S.

racialdotmap.demographics.coopercenter.org

I wonder how many of those people in Atlanta just got purged from the Georgia voter rolls?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/12/17/georgia-purged-voters-its-rolls-its-second-state-make-cuts-less-than-week/

 

[dan-o]

The city of Boston just changed the name of a square, in a predominantly black neighborhood, from Dudley Square to Nubian Square.

Dudley was one of the founders of Boston.
Nubia is a region of Africa and was selected due a a retail store on the square that used that name.

In a citywide vote, the proposal was defeated.

It was overwhelmingly supported within the immediate community however, and therefore pushed thru because of feelz.

According to the 1 person, 1 vote that community should’ve been told to pound sand.
Discuss.

 

[Brian HCM#1]

Well...

My work is established here. Its taken me 23+ years to build it up. Not ready to walk away yet. Once my wife retires we'll move on. Then again if Bernie or Warren wins no need to work cause everything will be free. So maybe that will change in Jan 2020.

 

[stoney]

My work is established here. Its taken me 23+ years to build it up. Not ready to walk away yet. Once my wife retires we'll move on. Then again if Bernie or Warren wins no need to work cause everything will be free. So maybe that will change in Jan 2020.

 

[Pesqueeb]

about freaking time

Trump Should Be Removed from Office

It’s time to say what we said 20 years ago when a president’s character was revealed for what it was.

www.christianitytoday.com

Yes. What a surprise. Who could have possibly known? If only there had been a sign of some sort.



Jesus Christ.

Trump attacks Christian magazine in wild rant, misspells its name

President goes to war with evangelical publication that branded him ‘immoral’

www.independent.co.uk

LOL. The wildest part of this story is Donald Trump claiming he "reads".

Edit:

Evangelical publication Christianity Today, founded by Billy Graham

And amid an early-morning flurry of tweets just days after he became the third president in US history to be impeached, the Republican turned his sights on the magazine, falsely describing it as “far left”.

 

[Pesqueeb]

The city of Boston just changed the name of a square, in a predominantly black neighborhood, from Dudley Square to Nubian Square.

Dudley was one of the founders of Boston.
Nubia is a region of Africa and was selected due a a retail store on the square that used that name.

In a citywide vote, the proposal was defeated.

It was overwhelmingly supported within the immediate community however, and therefore pushed thru because of feelz.

According to the 1 person, 1 vote that community should’ve been told to pound sand.
Discuss.

This is exactly what we are discussing. A small but vocal minority, overwhelming the choice of the majority.

Race relations are a separate subject and trying to conflate the two is disingenuous.

 

[Pesqueeb]

One of those defendants is Delfino Garza, an architect in Starr County. He didn't want government surveyors coming on his property outside Rio Grande City where he has a vineyard. As a sideline, he planted grapes a decade ago, clearing thick brush down by the Rio Grande for his vine rows.

"After about the third year, we started to make wine. And now in the last year they came to us about putting a border wall on our property," Garza said.

Garza is fighting the border wall. He voted for Trump, but he says he won't do so a second time. He fears the wall will kill his infant winemaking business.

"People don't go to wineries to see a border wall," he said. "We want this to be an attraction for the city. And this is just hurting us."

Classic conservative. "It's not bad till it affects ME"

Acquiring Private Land Is Slowing Trump's Border Wall

In South Texas, there's skepticism that President Trump will get the 450 miles of wall he wants by Election Day. Construction is behind schedule because of how difficult it is to take private land.

www.npr.org

 

[jonKranked]

Classic conservative. "It's not bad till it affects ME"

Acquiring Private Land Is Slowing Trump's Border Wall

In South Texas, there's skepticism that President Trump will get the 450 miles of wall he wants by Election Day. Construction is behind schedule because of how difficult it is to take private land.

www.npr.org

NIMBY

 

[Pesqueeb]

NIMBY

But for Boomers

 

[jonKranked]

But for Boomers

if it were a venn diagram, it'd be a single overlapping circle

 

[stoney]

But for white, conservative Boomers

ftfy

 

[SkaredShtles]

Classic conservative. "It's not bad till it affects ME"

Acquiring Private Land Is Slowing Trump's Border Wall

In South Texas, there's skepticism that President Trump will get the 450 miles of wall he wants by Election Day. Construction is behind schedule because of how difficult it is to take private land.

www.npr.org

"Just take the land." -Some Communist Dictator

Oh, wait. It was Trump that said that. Smells a lot like socialism to me.

 

[Westy]

The city of Boston just changed the name of a square, in a predominantly black neighborhood, from Dudley Square to Nubian Square.

Dudley was one of the founders of Boston.
Nubia is a region of Africa and was selected due a a retail store on the square that used that name.

In a citywide vote, the proposal was defeated.

It was overwhelmingly supported within the immediate community however, and therefore pushed thru because of feelz.

According to the 1 person, 1 vote that community should’ve been told to pound sand.
Discuss.

And old New York was once New Amsterdam....

 

[dan-o]

This is exactly what we are discussing. A small but vocal minority, overwhelming the choice of the majority.

Race relations are a separate subject and trying to conflate the two is disingenuous.

You can’t parse popular vote with exceptions for ‘race’ or other cultural issues.

The system is either a popular vote system or it’s not. Full stop, no asterisks allowed.

 

[Jm_]

My work is established here. Its taken me 23+ years to build it up. Not ready to walk away yet. Once my wife retires we'll move on. Then again if Bernie or Warren wins no need to work cause everything will be free. So maybe that will change in Jan 2020.

No one cares. I'm not claiming you don't work hard.

It's just that it's not your hard work that gained you 500K in your house value.

 

[Pesqueeb]

You can’t parse popular vote with exceptions for ‘race’ or other cultural issues.

The system is either a popular vote system or it’s not. Full stop, no asterisks allowed.

That's what everyone is saying. You're the one added the asterisk and I'm sure you thought you were very clever when you did.

 

[jonKranked]

It's just that it's not your hard work that gained you 500K in your house value.

 

[dan-o]

You're the one added the asterisk and I'm sure you thought you were very clever when you did.

Race relations are a separate subject and trying to conflate the two is disingenuous.

American politics are loaded with issues that have race/inequality woven through them.
Your whole political platform revolves around those ideas so that should be easy enough to understand.

Explain how you'd address a popular vote scenario, such as the boston example I posted, when the popular vote is counter to those minority interests.

To me, popular vote means the Yays have it regardless of what toes are stepped on.
Your definition sounds different and dependent upon the outcome.

 

[SkaredShtles]

American politics are loaded with issues that have race/inequality woven through them.
Your whole political platform revolves around those ideas so that should be easy enough to understand.

Explain how you'd address a popular vote scenario, such as the boston example I posted, when the popular vote is counter to those minority interests.

To me, popular vote means the Yays have it regardless of what toes are stepped on.
Your definition sounds different and dependent upon the outcome.

Just out of curiosity - did the city-wide vote actually have some legal standing? Was the general population responsible for the decision, or was it some sort of "referendum" to see what people would prefer, despite the fact that some local entity (city council?) was actually responsible for the decision?

 

[dan-o]

Just out of curiosity - did the city-wide vote actually have some legal standing? Was the general population responsible for the decision, or was it some sort of "referendum" to see what people would prefer, despite the fact that some local entity (city council?) was actually responsible for the decision?

The non-binding public opinion advisory ballot question, unanimously approved by the Boston City Council and backed by Mayor Marty Walsh earlier this year, asks if voters support the change to Nubian Square

 

[Brian HCM#1]

No one cares. I'm not claiming you don't work hard.

It's just that it's not your hard work that gained you 500K in your house value.

All the $500k profit went into another house, not my pocket. That was lucky perfect timing. I never envisioned the hosing market here would go crazy like it did. Right place, right time.

 

[SkaredShtles]

All the $500k profit went into another house, not my pocket.

Ummm... that's basically the same thing.

 

[slyfink]

That though was bipartisan, Nixon was bipartisan. Trump partisan, the left has been after him since day one. The motives are obvious.

That's hearsay. you don't have proof.

 

[Jm_]

All the $500k profit went into another house, not my pocket. That was lucky perfect timing. I never envisioned the hosing market here would go crazy like it did. Right place, right time.

And you didn’t work hard for it.

 

[Pesqueeb]

American politics are loaded with issues that have race/inequality woven through them.
Your whole political platform revolves around those ideas so that should be easy enough to understand.

Explain how you'd address a popular vote scenario, such as the boston example I posted, when the popular vote is counter to those minority interests.

To me, popular vote means the Yays have it regardless of what toes are stepped on.
Your definition sounds different and dependent upon the outcome.

The non-binding public opinion advisory ballot question, unanimously approved by the Boston City Council and backed by Mayor Marty Walsh earlier this year, asks if voters support the change to Nubian Square

Oh my God, you're making an even worse bad faith argument than I was giving you credit for.

Yes, the argument being made is popular vote mean yays have it regardless. I don't know where you're getting any thing other than that from and yes, that is my position.

You seemed to be heading in the direction of trying to catch some "liberal" in the position of being hypocritical on either the popular vote issue, or a race issue by claiming somehow a literal minority is being oppressed by a tyrannical white majority,over the naming of a city park.

Had that been the case, what I would have said is; "pull up your britches and suck it up". Election loss happens by, so called, popular majority. For 15 years I have put up with and rolled my eyes at the evangelical mouth breathers in this town while they defeat initiative after initiative to do basic things like fill the potholes big enough that large mammals could hibernate in over the winter, adequately fund public schools, pick up and/or mow the city parks, or keep the street lights on. I bitched and moaned when in 2014 the state district I live in sent an openly crazy, other than honorably discharged, court martialed, former Navy Chaplain to the state house. Because that how it works. When you lose an election by popular vote the impetus fall upon you to fight harder next time, make a better argument, find a better candidate, etc so that when the issue arises again, you can win the popular vote.

The system we have now for electing a president, is not that.

But instead, you're bringing up some bullshit that was basically an opinion poll, not a vote, with absolutely zero legal weight to it the where the Mayor said he might give some sort of deference to the people who, you know, actually live in the neighborhood. Get the fuck out of here with your disingenuous horseshit.

 

[Pesqueeb]

Leaked audio: Trump adviser says Republicans 'traditionally' rely on voter suppression

One of U.S. President Donald Trump's top re-election advisers told influential Republicans that the party has 'traditionally' relied on voter suppression to compete in battleground states but will be able to 'start playing offence' in 2020, according to an audio recording obtained by The...

www.ctvnews.ca

 

[Brian HCM#1]

And you didn’t work hard for it.

Correct, I did not work hard for it. However I work hard to pay the current mortgage that well over doubled from the other home

 

[Nick]

All of us hope for a large bump in our house's value. Nobody can fault anyone else for that.

I could cash out of here and move back to the Midwest mortgage-free into a bigger home. Property tax bills would be higher, but…

 

[boostindoubles]

My community is full of boomers who planned poorly and are trying to sell their houses for 150k more than they appraise. Then CA and Seattle folk come in and buy them anyways. The market is all upside down and I blame the greedy fucks who don't think about anyone but themselves. I wish I could lay it on Trump but its really Trump and these fucking greedy Boomers are both symptoms of the same problem, a white washing of integrity and moral fortitude perpetrated by corrupt career politicians and their mob/corporate handlers for power and money. I think these woes began in earnest during the Vietnam war with those Whiz Kids.

 

[dan-o]

Oh my God, you're making an even worse bad faith argument than I was giving you credit for.

Yes, the argument being made is popular vote mean yays have it regardless. I don't know where you're getting any thing other than that from and yes, that is my position.

You seemed to be heading in the direction of trying to catch some "liberal" in the position of being hypocritical on either the popular vote issue, or a race issue by claiming somehow a literal minority is being oppressed by a tyrannical white majority,over the naming of a city park.

Had that been the case, what I would have said is; "pull up your britches and suck it up". Election loss happens by, so called, popular majority. For 15 years I have put up with and rolled my eyes at the evangelical mouth breathers in this town while they defeat initiative after initiative to do basic things like fill the potholes big enough that large mammals could hibernate in over the winter, adequately fund public schools, pick up and/or mow the city parks, or keep the street lights on. I bitched and moaned when in 2014 the state district I live in sent an openly crazy, other than honorably discharged, court martialed, former Navy Chaplain to the state house. Because that how it works. When you lose an election by popular vote the impetus fall upon you to fight harder next time, make a better argument, find a better candidate, etc so that when the issue arises again, you can win the popular vote.

The system we have now for electing a president, is not that.

But instead, you're bringing up some bullshit that was basically an opinion poll, not a vote, with absolutely zero legal weight to it the where the Mayor said he might give some sort of deference to the people who, you know, actually live in the neighborhood. Get the fuck out of here with your disingenuous horseshit.

lol

That Boston park vote was something I heard about on NPR yesterday. I posted that simply because it was an an example of a popular vote adjusted by a finger on the scale to address an issue otherwise ignored by the general vote; the specific concerns of a small community. Something I believe needs to happen in our society.

Which was the intent of the EC, despite your ‘tyranny of the minority’ word play.

 

[stoney]

Correct, I did not work hard for it. However I work hard to pay the current mortgage that well over doubled from the other home

That's just poor decision making.

If your made $500k, put that into a new house, and have a mtge over 2x higher, then your new house would either have been over $1mm in Sacto or you didn't put it all into the new house or you are full of shit as to how much you made on it. What you make is the net after you pay off your mtge, taxes, commissions, etc.

 

[Brian HCM#1]

That's just poor decision making.

If your made $500k, put that into a new house, and have a mtge over 2x higher, then your new house would either have been over $1mm in Sacto or you didn't put it all into the new house or you are full of shit as to how much you made on it. What you make is the net after you pay off your mtge, taxes, commissions, etc.

In Sac? I'm in the East Bay, I'd don't think I'd ever want to drop $1M on a house there. We put 20% down and the rest went into kitchen/downstairs remodeling and new relocated HVAC system. Paid $275K sold $800K no capitol gain taxes are paid up to $500K (this was in 2006). Real estate agent was a friend of mine and received a $10K tax free kickback from him since he represented me on selling & buying (you can gift up to $10K without being taxed) on the purchase of our other house. Yes, what you said on new house purchase price.

 

[Toshi]

Trump Administration officials worried Ukraine aid halt violated spending law

The Center for Public Integrity is a nonprofit newsroom that investigates betrayals of public trust. Sign up to receive our stories. When President Donald Trump ordered a halt to aid to Ukraine last summer, defense officials and diplomats worried first that it would undermine U.S. national...

publicintegrity.org

 

[dan-o]

Trump Administration officials worried Ukraine aid halt violated spending law

The Center for Public Integrity is a nonprofit newsroom that investigates betrayals of public trust. Sign up to receive our stories. When President Donald Trump ordered a halt to aid to Ukraine last summer, defense officials and diplomats worried first that it would undermine U.S. national...

publicintegrity.org

Was the withholding itself illegal, or just the fact it exceeded the 45 day limit of the Impoundment Act?