[-dustin]

so....i've had my Vanilla for a couple years now, and it's been a good fork, and all. however, i'd kinda like to try something new on the DOC i have coming in. i was considering a TALAS and a Sherman. i thought a Sherman would be way out of my price range, but i e-mailed Go-Ride, and they taught me otherwise. so i've got myself a little tug-of-war going on.

so....convince me why i should either keep my Vanilla, get a (used) TALAS, or get the Sherman, taking into consideration ease of maintenance, frequency of required maintenance, durability, and the fact that i want a stiff fork.

i weigh about 200lbs, am a smooth XC rider, hack at everything else. bike will be used mainly for street and dj-ing, though trail riding will also be in the mix. rocky, rooty XC (my typical XC bike is a rigid SS).

 

[The Kadvang]

Bump. I am trying to decide between buying a Fox Vanilla which I would reduce the travel to 80mm or a Sherman Jumper.

 

[-dustin]

hmmmm.....want my Vanilla RL?

 

[The Kadvang]

hmmmm.....want my Vanilla RL?

If I dont get a sherman jumper

 

[chicodude]

You should look at the new static line......Or whatever the new line of manitou dj forks are

 

[-dustin]

hm, Ben quoted me a super-badass price to go along with the DOC i'd be getting from him. tough decision even tougher.

 

[esr]

If this is the sherman with the SPV on it I read if not ignore completely. From my experience with the SPV forks this year is that it is not only the Dorado xworks or lack works that has issues. I have had one customer that is in his late 40s that uses his 5 inch spv fork for XC riding only lets say he doesn't do anything big maybe a 2 foot rollin he has consitently blowen the fork on the 4 rides has has ben able to go on with it this year. Im not saying that this isn't just this fork but I have had numerous other SPV forks blow and loses rebound if not worse. Some of this can be fixed right in your home but who wants to fix there fork every day its not worth it at all. I say get the fox they work and that is what they are suppose to do.

 

[Jeremy R]

Well, if you want a super stiff 80mm travel street fork. Your options are pretty much limited to the Sherman Jumper. I can tell you for sure that the jumper is going to be a ton stiffer than your vanilla. And that jumper fork also has TPC+ damping which is the best idea Manitou ever had.
Now there are other options if you want a stiff 100mm fork, options from Zoke and I guess you could dial a pike down to 95 or so, but there is not alot of options if you want a super stiff, 20 mm axled 80mm fork.

 

[profro]

I would really like to check out the Kingpin Stance Static. It looks like a good option to the expense of the Sherman for dirt jumpers.

 

[Acadian]

I dunno...I've had this 2001 Fox Vanilla 100R on my jump/DS bike for the past few years and it's pretty darn stiff!! It's also LOW maintenance...I've only gotten it rebuilt once at Sea Otter, but haven’t touched it once other than that. Can't speak for the Sherman...never ridden one.

 

[Jeremy R]

I dunno...I've had this 2001 Fox Vanilla 100R on my jump/DS bike for the past few years and it's pretty darn stiff!! It's also LOW maintenance...I've only gotten it rebuilt once at Sea Otter, but haven’t touched it once other than that. Can't speak for the Sherman...never ridden one.

Well, the vanilla I had was the 125 version, so it is not going to be as stiff as the 100mm setting. But comparing a vanilla 125 to a Sherman 130 or a Z1,
it is just nowhere near as stiff (its also not as heavy either). So, manitou took that same chassis and dropped it down to 80mm. I have played around on one, it is as stiff as a DH fork.
I am not saying he would need that stiffness or anything, just pointing it out.
There are plenty of guys DJing the crap out of Vanillas.

 

[Mattoid]

stance static. Just cuz its cheaper, all black, and possibly stiffer (due to the steel stantions?) ...but who knows. Ive been waiting on mine since the summer, silly manitou ...grrr

 

[sama1ter]

im in the decision for a new fork as well, i have a Firefly now(TPC, 2003, Through axle) and was planning on getting the pike...but you say the fox forks hold up to abuse of street, dj, ect? i was always afraid cause they are xc forks

 

[greenreese]

I have been running a Jumper on my Imperial for a few months now. It is stiff and I don't have to worry about t at all. It does feel a bit different than any other sherman I have tried. Even when pedaling hard across a dirt road or field/run in to dirt jumps, it does not move. The travel sticks in the exact same position. This may sound weird/bad, and it does take a bit of getting used to but it feels really nice after a while. Meaning I get Zero pedal bob, as in none. It has to hit quite a big bump to get the fork moving. This makes sprints up to jumps or ramps really nice.
Another thing is the adjustments- they don't do ****. The fork feels exactly the same no matter how you turn any of the dials. As opposed to my old Z.1 Fr, in which a quarter turn made a more than noticeable difference. This doesn't really bother me, but it seems as if it would have been nicer to not have any dials at all. I am no suspension guru, and I have never taken the fork apart as I am happy with it how it is.
I rode my friends p3 with a Z1 on it a couple days ago and the bob really sucks up all your energy, I don't know if this fork is supposed to stick like this, but it feels nice.

Thumbs up. But not way up.
-dAn

 

[mobius]

Get a Jumper. I had a fox and broke the arch in half with my bare hands after cracking it pretty bad. I called fox asked about crash replacement or anything he was just like nope and dismissed it and said i should buy a fox 36. It was a 03 vanilla RLC and the thing when it worked was great but otherwise had problems. I'd get a Sherman Jumper by far that or a stance because they were meant for what they are doing.

 

[redical]

WHile the Fox is a way better quality fork, for what you want to do you should try the jumper or the oterh new cheap alternative from Manitou. IF you really want something bomb-proof and cheap, pick up a 2003-2005 Marzocchi Dirt Jumper 1-3, drop the travel to 90mm, and you will be great.

 

[-dustin]

"I have tried. Even when pedaling hard across a dirt road or field/run in to dirt jumps, it does not move. The travel sticks in the exact same position. This may sound weird/bad, and it does take a bit of getting used to but it feels really nice after a while. Meaning I get Zero pedal bob, as in none. "

oooooooooooooo....now that's what i want to hear. that is exactly what i've wanted out of my Vanilla, but never got, unless i locked it out.

 

[kidwoo]

I'm in the same boat you are right now. The forks I'd been considering are the stance static, sherman jumper or a fox vanilla. I've ridden the vanilla and a jumper. There is no single crown out there that will be as stiff as the jumper (and the stance forks I'm assuming). But as mentioned, manitou's damping leaves a little to be desired. But it's a jump fork, so that's only so relevant. I'm on a black elite right now for my jump bike and I'll be damned if I can tell the difference in compression or rebound settings.

The thru axle static is only about 300$ retail to that's tough to beat, but then again it also weighs just under 6lbs.

I'm getting a fox just because they are more consistent in what gets made and I won't have to build another wheel for the 20mm hub. If I were the kind of person who beat the crap out of my bike on concrete terrain, I might go with a manitou. I just ride dirt jumps though.

 

[-dustin]

you can get Shermans in QR. or, at least you used to be able to.

 

[ufdff15]

according to the manitou website it's still available in QR.

 

[kidwoo]

Yes you can get the stance QR and they're about $50 cheaper too. I could do that but the ONLY reason I'd buy a manitou is for stiffness so I was just thinking it that's the case, why not go full bore? So yes, stance QR also an option but manitou's site says the jumper is thru-axle only.


http://www.answerproducts.com/items.asp?deptid=1&itemid=120

 

[MikeD]

But as mentioned, manitou's damping leaves a little to be desired.

SPV, absolutely...but TPC+?? Leaving a bit to be desired? Hardly...it's the best damping of any of the major fork lines, according to many of us that ride it by choice.

I think the Jumper or the Stance would be just fine...

 

[Guess?Who]

Get an 04' Flick w/tpc. It will give you the option of 90mm - 130mm.

 

[dexter]

iv been on shermans for almost 2 and 1/2 years now and love them to death. I actually still am rocking my second one (camo) that the tech guys set the travel at 73 mm and it rocks. n o pedal bob and its just as stiff if not more so than my dorado or slider +


mmmmmmm pink camo sherman jumper with stance black uppers- my street fork for next season mad hot

 

[kidwoo]

SPV, absolutely...but TPC+?? Leaving a bit to be desired? Hardly...it's the best damping of any of the major fork lines, according to many of us that ride it by choice.

I think the Jumper or the Stance would be just fine...

I've owned two manitous with tpc damping now. I'm glad you like yours. I've been less than impressed. I know some manitou forks out there feel great. I've got one friend with a first generation slider that feels like it's got chewing gum stuck in it regardless of how much he works on it and another buddy with a firefly that feels smooth as hell. Both are very competent mechanics. I've ridden dorados that I'd be happy to own and others that belong in the trash.

How about "inconsistent?". I don't get all whiney just because I have a romic that feels good and people bitch about them.

If you know something I don't let me send you my black fork so I don't have to sell it and buy something else.

 

[MikeD]

Hm, just haven't personally run into any inconsistencies in the TPC+ forks me or my friends have owned...but those have all been Shermans, too. My Slider is the absolute smoothest thing I've ever felt, aside from an Avalanche. Beat my marzocchi for sure.

Sorry to hear you've had problems with it. I don't do anything special with mine except change the damper oil to 7wt at the specified height, then keep the bushings and seals greased with prep-M and the proper amount of semibath motor oil.

Anyhow, for what you described, I can only think the Sherman jumper is the fork for you...if you're willing to chance the TPC+. I would, obviously...

MD

Edit: I wasn't getting whiny, by the way...I didn't criticize you at all, and just gave you feedback like you asked for. Sorry if I came off like that...was just giving a solicited opinion.

Edit Again: Ooops, didn't see you didn't start the thread. Thought you had. Sorry. Good luck with the Fox. I like my Vanilla for my XC bike...but I think you'll need to up the spring rate for sure if you're gonna jump it. Mine feels VERY soft (stock 4" fork) and I only weigh 160 or so.

 

[kidwoo]

No offense taken. I can say that of the manitou forks I didn't like, it was because they felt like they were dragging on the bushings/seals. My white brothers forks would feel like that with new seals but it would fade away after some good use. I honestly don't know what it is but both of the forks I owned felt like this. I spent some time this weekend with my black apart and I just cannot get the thing to feel smooth, even after two good seasons of use. But I know not everyone's forks feel like this.

Thanks for reminding me on the springs. I just called fox back and they come with 3 springs. The stiffest is for riders around 210. That should work.

So on a side note regarding the stance static.......what do you know about "fluid flow" damping? Is that like ssv zoke damping? It scared me away from the static.

 

[MikeD]

Damn, that's right...I forgot. I got gypped by buying a demo Fox that didn't come with all the springs. I know nothing of the Fluid Flow damping, sorry.

 

[-dustin]

the stiffest spring the Fox comes with is for 210lbs? that's interesting. have they changed that? mine came with blue, green, and purple. all felt way too soft to me, so i had an orange put in.

 

[kidwoo]

the stiffest spring the Fox comes with is for 210lbs? that's interesting. have they changed that? mine came with blue, green, and purple. all felt way too soft to me, so i had an orange put in.

Yeah they come with blue, green and purple. The rep feller said the stiffest of those three had 210lbs at its upper range. That doesn't mean it's really suitable, just what they claim. I might need an orange one too.............we'll see.

 

[monkeyboy424]

ive had a sherman jumper for a few months now, and it is the nicest fork i have ever owned. the one thing is that i have problems with damper oil leaking through the bottom of the fork, but i think it has been fixed no, or there is no more oil in my fork.


i weigh around 190, and after a few weeks of riding my fork, i needed new springs, since then it has been the smmothest and nicest fork i have owned.

 

[Bicyclist]

Check out the Zoke MX Pro w/ ETA. I had a Float and I've ridden a Vanilla and my Zoke is way stiffer and it feels better. You can choke the travel down to 30mm. It feels nice and is really nice. And manipoos suck. They just feel like poo and they break easily. (Some people love 'em, others don't) You may even want to try a Dirt Jumper, but it's probably too heavy.

 

[dante]

Check out the Zoke MX Pro w/ ETA. I had a Float and I've ridden a Vanilla and my Zoke is way stiffer and it feels better. You can choke the travel down to 30mm. It feels nice and is really nice. And manipoos suck. They just feel like poo and they break easily. (Some people love 'em, others don't) You may even want to try a Dirt Jumper, but it's probably too heavy.

That's pretty funny...

 

[MikeD]

The old Manitou Magnum is a great jumping fork, too. Heavy, so it's strong... ("Heavy...is sign of reliability" - Boris the Blade) and you can't blow out the elastomer damping on a hard hit.

MD

 

[dante]

"Heavy...is sign of reliability" - Boris the Blade

"If it does not work, you can always hit him with it"

 

[dropmnster]

manitou are not reliable forks seals always are leaking.

 

[MikeD]

manitou are not reliable forks seals always are leaking.

I wish you'd told me this before.

 

[bighitfsr]

Just in case the sherman owners reading this dont know how to service their forks.

If your having problems with the smoothness of a sherman keep the following in mind:

- The motor oil/semi bath lube in the shermans lowers does not properly lube the fork on its own. You cant just replace the motor oil in a sherman and expect it to run smoothly you need to remove the lowers, clean them and apply prep-M to the upper bushings and seals.

- allways use the new golden prep-M, not the old blue stuff, slick honey or judy butter. The mechanic at my LBS used slick honey in his minutes when he first got them then switched to the new prep-M and found the minutes much smoother.

My fireflys are smoother than any marzocchi I've ever felt IMO. The adjustments on my TPC+ firefly are effective they just have a small range. I suspect that people who complain the adjustments do nothing really dont have a clue how to setup their suspension. You can definitely tell a difference from one extreeme to the other when riding. Not so much if your just bouncing around in the parking lot. The sherman DJ is over sprung for obvious reasons so I can imagine the damping dials doing close to nothing on the sherman DJ. Marzocchi on the other hand have only very recently come up with adjustable compression that doesnt compromise the overall quality of the damping. Marzocchi also have a huge range of un-useful adjustment. You can almost lock out the rebound damping on a marz fork, which isnt very useful. Personally I like the adjustability of my firefly alot more than my housemates Z1-CR (more control over the useful range of adjustment).

What few people seem to realise is the greater the range of adjustment the more performance is compromised. Adjusters usually work by adjusting a bleed circut that bypasses the compression or rebound pistons resulting in a damper thats more prone to spiking (a larger volume of oil flows through the adjustment/free bleed circut in a more adjustable design than in a less adjustable design).

Also someone mentioned fluid flow. Which is manitous most basic damper. Its similar to TPC in that its a sealed cartridge but its a simple orifice damper so its more prone to compression spikes in higher speed situations. It should work fine for DJs and urban but would really let you down on high speed stutter bumps.

 

[Jeremy R]

manitou are not reliable forks seals always are leaking.

What's your 1st language?

 

[MtnbikeMike]

Wow. It took all of the way until the 3rd page for a reccomendation to get a 'Zoke and/or poor explanation on why manitou forks suck. This must be a first.