[sanjuro]

I was going to advise an advanced beginner about better cornering, but I want to be sure what I am going to tell her is accurate.

She seems to have a problem with switchbacks and other off camber surfaces. She does ride a road bike fairly often, which I believe causes some confusion about handling off road because the amount leaning required for road cornering.

Anyway, there was one slow, moderately-banked turn, which she felt she could not ride. Besides maintaining a certain speed, I leaned my bike slightly (but I kept my body centered) so that my wheels were almost perpendicular to the bank so I could maintain maximum tread contact to the ground.

Then when I had to make a sharp turn, I did not lean into it, but I just turned the bars while keeping my body level, and I had my front wheel roll in the direction of the bank.

On off-camber lines, I want to emphasis keeping your body centered but leaning your bike with the camber. With switchbacks and other tight turns, I want to focus on turning the bars, as opposed to leaning into a turn), while your upper body stays straight.

Sound advice?

 

[McGRP01]

Let her watch any/all available video footage of Sam Hill. Best in the biz right now.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

Yes, it's sound advice. At speed, lean. Moving slowly, steer.

 

[amydalayna]

i think you should bring your girly to the bmx track and let her practice there. it's a good way to practice body position on turns without having other things like roots and rocks get in the way.
that, and nothing says hot date like riding the track. if she doesn't want to make out with you after that, then she's not a keeper.

or just buy her the lee mccormack book and put a bow on it. it has some good advice for off camber cornering.

 

[Jeronimo]

Mountain biking is a "monkey see, monkey do" sport. Take her out onto a trail, demo the moves and then talk her through them.

 

[amydalayna]

Mountain biking is a "monkey see, monkey do" sport. Take her out onto a trail, demo the moves and then talk her through them.

not sure i agree with that. if she's new to mtn biking, she might be annoyed if you keep telling her to watch your moves.

 

[sanjuro]

Mountain biking is a "monkey see, monkey do" sport. Take her out onto a trail, demo the moves and then talk her through them.

My concern is explaining stuff I do without a second thought, which is the hardest part of teaching beginners.

I am going to show how to do these steps, but the very obvious details are not so for a beginner. For example, not using the front brake on a turn is obvious to most, but not so for a beginner.

I want to be sure I didn't miss anything and my advice is clear and easy to follow.

 

[bluebug32]

Women can easily feel stupid, especially when it comes to our athletic abilities when pitted against a man.

If she wants to learn it herself (and perhaps impress you later), pick up Masting Mountain Bike Skills by Brian Lopes. He gives some great tips.

I've also struggled with these skills. I think the main thing is to practice, practice, practice. Dont be just a weekend warrior. Give her some incentives to keep up the constant practice. I've found that keeping that outside foot planted is a good tip, as is leaning more than stearing. Also, draw the diagram of turns (Lopes has them in his book too) and show her the Apex etc. so she can start to visualize her line first thing. The other biggie is not braking. This is the difficult one!

 

[Jeronimo]

My concern is explaining stuff I do without a second thought, which is the hardest part of teaching beginners.

I am going to show how to do these steps, but the very obvious details are not so for a beginner. For example, not using the front brake on a turn is obvious to most, but not so for a beginner.

I want to be sure I didn't miss anything and my advice is clear and easy to follow.

It's not too difficult if one can think through the process of what they normally do as a reflex action and explain it all while demoing it. I have taught many male and female beginner level riders and have always had success in helping them become better riders in very short periods of time.

Also, some turns require use of the front brake, so your general statement of "not using the front brake on a turn" is erroneous at best.

 

[sanjuro]

Women can easily feel stupid, especially when it comes to our athletic abilities when pitted against a man.

If she wants to learn it herself (and perhaps impress you later), pick up Masting Mountain Bike Skills by Brian Lopes. He gives some great tips.

I've also struggled with these skills. I think the main thing is to practice, practice, practice. Dont be just a weekend warrior. Give her some incentives to keep up the constant practice. I've found that keeping that outside foot planted is a good tip, as is leaning more than stearing. Also, draw the diagram of turns (Lopes has them in his book too) and show her the Apex etc. so she can start to visualize her line first thing. The other biggie is not braking. This is the difficult one!

I noticed many men badger their female partners, so I avoid doing that.

Good tips as well.

 

[Jeronimo]

not sure i agree with that. if she's new to mtn biking, she might be annoyed if you keep telling her to watch your moves.

You might be annoyed, but all of the women I have held skills clinics for have thought differently. It's only annoying if an overbearing idiot knuckle dragger is instructing females.

 

[sanjuro]

You might be annoyed, but all of the women I have held skills clinics for have thought differently. It's only annoying if an overbearing idiot knuckle dragger is instructing females.

Mr. Amydalyna?

 

[Jeronimo]

If she wants to learn it herself (and perhaps impress you later), pick up Masting Mountain Bike Skills by Brian Lopes. He gives some great tips.

Patience and understanding are a lot less expensive than trying to buy one's way out of this, in more ways than one. If a male practices being patient and understanding in the learning process, when they get out on the trail, it will become just as natural as their skills in a turn.

 

[jonKranked]

if both feet on the pedals, inside foot forward. keep the pedals level at worst, and leading foot slightly above - better, once she gets crazy mad fast, leading foot somewhere around 45 degrees. also she'll turn better/faster if she looks where she'll be going when she comes out of the corner, and turning the shoulders will help even more.

 

[robdamanii]

Patience and understanding are a lot less expensive than trying to buy one's way out of this, in more ways than one. If a male practices being patient and understanding in the learning process, when they get out on the trail, it will become just as natural as their skills in a turn.

The book helps a LOT to be able to visualize the techniques that you need to be successful on the trail. You learn how to visualize your turns, your lines, etc etc. There's also a fair amount of psychology involved in the book, which is a good read. Definitely not a poor investment, and certainly a better investment than a headset or something like that.

 

[Jeronimo]

The book helps a LOT to be able to visualize the techniques that you need to be successful on the trail. You learn how to visualize your turns, your lines, etc etc. There's also a fair amount of psychology involved in the book, which is a good read. Definitely not a poor investment, and certainly a better investment than a headset or something like that.

Gee, then I guess all of those skills clinics and dirt camps are just a waste of time and money since a book can help one visualize better than in-person experience.

 

[reflux]

if both feet on the pedals, inside foot forward. keep the pedals level at worst, and leading foot slightly above - better, once she gets crazy mad fast, leading foot somewhere around 45 degrees. also she'll turn better/faster if she looks where she'll be going when she comes out of the corner, and turning the shoulders will help even more.

I disagree. She should consider cornering however it feels most natural. I downhill with my right foot forward the entire way down. I have tried changing it up depending on the turn, but it feels most unnatural and I have trouble finding my balance when I do so. I think Sanjuro was right on the money - it is important to maintain one's weight centered over the bike while cornering. I would even go so far as to suggest that she "feel" like she's over the front of the bike, as she may be too far off the back of the bike.

 

[sanjuro]

if both feet on the pedals, inside foot forward. keep the pedals level at worst, and leading foot slightly above - better, once she gets crazy mad fast, leading foot somewhere around 45 degrees. also she'll turn better/faster if she looks where she'll be going when she comes out of the corner, and turning the shoulders will help even more.

I prefer the outside foot forward, so I can pedal during or right after the turn. But I have to be careful not to overlap the wheel....

 

[Snacks]

Get orange cones and set them up on different types of hills and flat ground.

Outside foot sould be down. I can't see how anyone can tell you what foot should be forward. I'm left handed and lead with both feet, it just depends where I am in my pedal stroke when I come to a corner.

 

[sanjuro]

Get orange cones and set them up on different types of hills and flat ground.

She is an advanced beginner, so that kind of cornering is not required.

I could see where off-camber terrain is difficult, so that is the next step...

 

[bluebug32]

Patience and understanding are a lot less expensive than trying to buy one's way out of this, in more ways than one. If a male practices being patient and understanding in the learning process, when they get out on the trail, it will become just as natural as their skills in a turn.

It all depends on how you learn. Some learn from watching, other from reading and having precise steps to follow and a reference point they can keep referring back to.

 

[amydalayna]

Gee, then I guess all of those skills clinics and dirt camps are just a waste of time and money since a book can help one visualize better than in-person experience.

i don't think that's what he was saying. he was saying that the book is a good investment. and i agree with that.

 

[Snacks]

She is an advanced beginner, so that kind of cornering is not required.

I could see where off-camber terrain is difficult, so that is the next step...

Eh, they are always good for practice. It's fun to see how fast you can go on steep hills, great practice for switch backs.

 

[jonKranked]

I disagree. She should consider cornering however it feels most natural. I downhill with my right foot forward the entire way down. I have tried changing it up depending on the turn, but it feels most unnatural and I have trouble finding my balance when I do so. I think Sanjuro was right on the money - it is important to maintain one's weight centered over the bike while cornering. I would even go so far as to suggest that she "feel" like she's over the front of the bike, as she may be too far off the back of the bike.

definitely maintain the weight. I am right foot dominant as well (highly dominant, as that is my leading foot for trials), so left foot forward feels extremely unnatural for me. It was hard to get used to at first, and still feels weird, but I find I have more control through turns, and its easier for me to control my weight over the bike (as well as front/back CoG).

Sanjuro, i like inside forward cuz i got some decent sized feet (size 11) and my toes tend to overhang a lot, and that helps my avoid the foot rub. and i can still pedal out of it, just takes practice and some different weight shifting to get used to it.

 

[robdamanii]

i don't think that's what he was saying. he was saying that the book is a good investment. and i agree with that.

Precisely. There's a difference between visual, aural and kinesthetic learners. The book certainly does help visual learners. It's a good investment for anyone. It gives you a different look at things that you may have not considered before.

 

[Jeronimo]

There's a difference between visual, aural and kinesthetic learners. The book certainly does help visual learners. It's a good investment for anyone.

Nice contradiction. How can it be good for aural and kinesthetic learners as compared to a visual learner? The best way to learn and get good at anything is to just get out and do it.

 

[robdamanii]

Nice contradiction. How can it be good for aural and kinesthetic learners as compared to a visual learner? The best way to learn and get good at anything is to just get out and do it.

Absolutely false. A kinesthetic learner can get out and do it and learn just fine. Many people need it explained to them and THAT'S how they learn, and many people need to see it, and THAT'S how they learn. Or are you denying years of research showing that there are different learning types?

Your point is stupid. How is it a bad thing to have more than one viewpoint on things? Or is YOUR viewpoint the only correct one in the world?

 

[amydalayna]

Nice contradiction. How can it be good for aural and kinesthetic learners as compared to a visual learner? The best way to learn and get good at anything is to just get out and do it.

The reason the book is good for visual learners is that it breaks it down into many images. When you watch someone go off a drop or take a corner at speed, it goes by really fast.

The books shows these things broken down in split-second images. So you can see how your body should be without it going by too fast.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

It's also important not to get too theoretical. The best way to learn to ride is to ride, fall down, and ride more. There ain't no right way.

 

[robdamanii]

It's also important not to get too theoretical. The best way to learn to ride is to ride, fall down, and ride more. There ain't no right way.

Quite right. Get out and ride. Ride with people who are better than you are and you'll pick up loads of skills without even realizing it.

 

[sanjuro]

I let her use my Rally FR pads, kinda of silly, unless she went down...

 

[Jeronimo]

Absolutely false. A kinesthetic learner can get out and do it and learn just fine. Many people need it explained to them and THAT'S how they learn, and many people need to see it, and THAT'S how they learn. Or are you denying years of research showing that there are different learning types?

Your point is stupid. How is it a bad thing to have more than one viewpoint on things? Or is YOUR viewpoint the only correct one in the world?

Gee, what was the last point I made? Then you posted this:

Get out and ride. Ride with people who are better than you are and you'll pick up loads of skills without even realizing it.

How does it feel to talk out of the side of your mouth more than Dick Cheney?

 

[Jeronimo]

The reason the book is good for visual learners is that it breaks it down into many images. When you watch someone go off a drop or take a corner at speed, it goes by really fast.

The books shows these things broken down in split-second images. So you can see how your body should be without it going by too fast.

Do you buy books to teach yourself how to do everything? Barnes & Noble both love you.

 

[robdamanii]

Gee, what was the last point I made? Then you posted this:



How does it feel to talk out of the side of your mouth more than Dick Cheney?

I was referring to getting out and not listening to an over-inflated egotistical jackass such as yourself.

Regardless of however many people you think you've taught, by discouraging the use of visual materials you're not teaching everyone to the best of their ability if they're not a kinesthetic learner. Years of research backs that up, yet apparently you don't get that. But then, if you're a teacher and find no value in books, I question your ability to understand the most mundane things.

Gee, then I guess all of those skills clinics and dirt camps are just a waste of time and money since a book can help one visualize better than in-person experience.

And thought I'd go back to this: NOBODY can see exactly what you're seeing. By outlining something in a picture, you can BEGIN to explain what you are seeing, and perhaps what they should be seeing as well.

But wait...books are useless. I guess everyone has telepathy, huh?

 

[robdamanii]

Do you buy books to teach yourself how to do everything? Barnes & Noble both love you.

Do you think surgeons buy books just for the hell of it? Do you think trainers buy books just for the hell of it?

You're an idiot if you think everyone can "just do it" without any other teaching media.

 

[sanjuro]

Do you buy books to teach yourself how to do everything? Barnes & Noble both love you.

Hey, I know your personal tutor must be Brian Lopes, but I have read Lee McCormack's book and I found it very interesting and informative.

This is not one of those, "don't use the front brake", type of advice, but rather advanced stuff on how to do step downs, drops, and jumps.

Unless you are going to Lopes' camp, this is the next best thing. Most of my friends, even the ones who can do this, are not exactly the best teachers. They lack the patience or the technique to teach these things correctly.

Obviously it would be better to take a long skills camp, but for $20, a good book to have.

P.S. I noticed McCormack is only charging $100 a hour for lessons...

 

[bluebug32]

I love how the rep disappears and suddenly people start jumping on one another once again

 

[Skookum]

I am going to show how to do these steps, but the very obvious details are not so for a beginner. For example, not using the front brake on a turn is obvious to most, but not so for a beginner.

Not true, you're advice on body positioning is correct. But you need to use that front brake almost exclusively on low speed switchback cornering especially on off-camber. Front brake provides traction and control while preventing skidding.

Approach using front and rear brake equally to slow to cornering speed.
While in the corner no skid, body position correct, now using more front brake to dig the front wheel.
Out of the corner zoooom....

 

[amydalayna]

Do you buy books to teach yourself how to do everything? Barnes & Noble both love you.

No weirdo. I like bikes alot. So I bought a book on improving biking skills. Call me crazy.

 

[sanjuro]

I didn't know Mr. Amydalayna allowed you to read...