[HardtailHack]

Hey peoples,

I am going to get a Corsair Maelstrom without the rear shock, so what are my options?
At the moment I race in the DH hardtail class so I want a bike that still feels lively yet ramps up hard at the end of the travel(if possible). I have owned a Balfa BB7 but it had a 5th on it and I couldn't get it set like I wanted it, so I sold it.
I am really keen on getting an Avalanche al a carte but I'm worried about getting it set right. The other option is a Vivid which I really like as it has end of stroke comp/rebound adjust which I would love as that is what was wrong with the 5th, it either had to much damping at the start of the travel or not enough at the end.
I hope this make some sense,
Thanks for the help.

 

[jonKranked]

One thing to keep in mind... that frame uses a 3.5" stroke shock (I think its 10" i2i). Not all shocks are available in that size currently (at least to the best of my knowledge).

Also, since the frame has a roughly 2:1 ratio and uses a lighter coil, you may need a lighter damping tune. There's a good thread about it in the freeride forum:

http://ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=216872

Also, unless you are an experienced shock tuner, I wouldn't recommend the Avy ala carte.

edit: you will also need a lighter spring than you would for other frames.

 

[sethimus]

all boutique shock companys should make one in this size...

 

[jonKranked]

There's a good selection actually. I *think* marz makes one, Elka makes a 10.5x3.5, Manitou Revox, Fox DHX, so its a decent selection. SRAM isn't listing a Vivid in this size on their site.

 

[Brian HCM#1]

If you go with Avalanche have Craig build it for you, don't go with the al a carte.

 

[time-bomb]

There's a good selection actually. I *think* marz makes one, Elka makes a 10.5x3.5, Manitou Revox, Fox DHX, so its a decent selection. SRAM isn't listing a Vivid in this size on their site.

This is true. It does take a 10.5x3.5. You can also get a CCDB in that configuration. I have seen an X-Fusion shock in that configuration but I don't know if they are producing them yet.

Although Marzocchi doesn't list it on their site, I am almost certain they make the Rocco WC in a 10.5x3.5 spec as well. I would be willing to bet dollars to donuts on that. As a matter of fact, the Crown DH can take a 10.5x3.5 w/out the blow off shock and I am positive Corsair has run this config w/the Rocco.

Nice choice in frame BTW. That was one that made my short list for a new frame.

Also, as jonKranked mentioned earlier, it is a 2:1 leverage ratio so you will need a lighter spring. Doug or Pablo from Corsair can help you figure out what spring you will need and most of the suspension companies should be able to figure it out too.

One other thing, check out the postings on the new CCDB valving. It will be more expensive than the other options but it sounds like it would be the shiznits on this frame.

 

[Uncle Cliffy]

There's a good selection actually. I *think* marz makes one, Elka makes a 10.5x3.5, Manitou Revox, Fox DHX, so its a decent selection. SRAM isn't listing a Vivid in this size on their site.

Don't forget about Cane Creek... Hopefully the new CCDB's dampening is light enough for a 2 to 1 frame. I heard some numbers, but they weren't that low. I also read the Roco was a OEM thing, and Fox is doing the RC4 in 10.5 X 3.5 as well.

There's a thread over on MTBR on a flossy Maelstrom and the owner got an Elka for it. He is ubber-impressed with it's performance up to now and Tony's ran some really nice equipment in the past. (He can really ride too... )

 

[time-bomb]

One other thing to consider when getting a shock, the Maelstrom was designed to run at a totally linear rate. The only way you will get a progressive set up is if you tune the shock that way. This will also impact your spring weight choice. Some of the shocks mentioned earlier are going to be better than others for this. I think the top choices to achieve this would be Elka, CCDB, and Avalanche since they can custom tune the shock for you. If you get a Fox or Marzocchi, you may want to consider getting them PUSH'd.

 

[HardtailHack]

Cheers guys, I wish there was more info on the suspension characteristics on the Corsair site. The linear rate setup is a bit of a bummer, I was hoping it would be rising rate. Members have mentioned certain shocks ramp up more towards the end of the stroke, which shocks are like this?

I am keen on the AVY because I can service it at home and I know I can get help from AVY if I need it. Cane Creek have no importer in Australia, same with Elka so I am hesitant to buy something I can't easily repair at home or work.

Are the 8mm dia shock bushes on the Corsair a fairly standard size, or will I have to buy/make something to adapt an aftermarket shock?

I still really like the idea of the Al a Carte, and I would be in no hurry to get the bike setup right. I really don't want a dually but I want to race in a higher grade instead of racing kids.

 

[Transcend]

There is currently no vivid in this size. The RC4 just launched in this size, and most distributors will have them in stock. I am currently running an Elka in this size and am loving it. Great support and a fantastic shock. Will have a review on them shortly.

 

[jonKranked]

I still really like the idea of the Al a Carte, and I would be in no hurry to get the bike setup right. I really don't want a dually but I want to race in a higher grade instead of racing kids.

Again, I want to stress that I would avoid the ala carte unless you are an experienced suspension tuner. If you don't know what you're doing, you risk not only a shock that isn't set up properly, but a shock that flat out doesn't work (and could be dangerous if ridden).

edit: not only that, Craig doesn't have the 10"/10.5"x3.5" shock size listed as an option for the ala carte.

 

[HardtailHack]

Hmmm how bout a Curnutt air shock, Would Foes sell one without buying a frame? It makes good sense as this shock is designed to run on a 2/1 ratio frame and it would shed a bit of weight from the frame(and my wallet).

 

[jonKranked]

Eh the Curnutts are reliable, but they are still a shock with position sensitive damping (not ideal for DH). A friend of mine had a Foes RS7 with the Curnutt air shock. The small bump compliance needed for DH just wasn't there, regardless of how he adjusted it.

Also, because they are proprietary shocks for the foes frames, I'm not sure they are available in the i2i/stroke the maelstrom needs.

 

[HardtailHack]

Cheers Jon, I guess I'll just have to order an Elka. I'll have to try and get one direct as the importer over here doesn't have them as an upgrade, Marz only.

 

[jonKranked]

I would recommend trying it with the stock Roco at first (unless you are dead set against it for some reason), I spoke with a guy this past weekend who had one and he seemed to like it a lot with that shock. Roco's are also relatively to service, I'm sure you could find someone in the region that could tune it for you.

Also, just a bit of information about the ala carte from another thread specifically about that shock:

Craig explained to me that many of his customers are overseas and shipping individual parts is obviously costly. This way shops overseas can buy kits with all the parts they need to re-size shocks. BTW, he was very clear in saying don't buy one of these kits and expect 24/7 technical support! These are for people "who don't need instructions to build a shock".

 

[Supa8]

I would recommend trying it with the stock Roco at first (unless you are dead set against it for some reason), I spoke with a guy this past weekend who had one and he seemed to like it a lot with that shock. Roco's are also relatively to service, I'm sure you could find someone in the region that could tune it for you.




Yup. ROCO was A OK for me. Set my sag and rebound put in 170 PSI for bottom out and did not think about it again all weekend. Pretty impressed with the bike. Hope to get a day in the dry somewhere this coming weekend to really give it a go.

Hey Jon you did not end up grabbing a beer ( although I think you already had one in your hand at the time )

 

[IH8Rice]

Hmmm how bout a Curnutt air shock, Would Foes sell one without buying a frame? It makes good sense as this shock is designed to run on a 2/1 ratio frame and it would shed a bit of weight from the frame(and my wallet).

you can buy the shocks from them if you want, but you have to realize their frames arent really 2:1 and they dont have a 3.5" stroke shock.
my RS7 has 7" of travel from a 3" stroke shock and my 10" DHS has a 4.5"(iirc) stroke shock.

the Curnutt XTD Air is nice, but it doesnt have the small bump compliance that most people are looking for.

 

[time-bomb]

you can buy the shocks from them if you want, but you have to realize their frames arent really 2:1 and they dont have a 3.5" stroke shock.
my RS7 has 7" of travel from a 3" stroke shock and my 10" DHS has a 4.5"(iirc) stroke shock.

the Curnutt XTD Air is nice, but it doesnt have the small bump compliance that most people are looking for.

I am not even sure if a Curnutt would fit due to the spring diameter. I had an FXR (Ti spring) and a Fly (steel spring) a couple years ago they were almost twice as wide as a normal spring. Even if the i2i and stroke worked out I don't think it would fit in the lower frame cradle where the link drives the shock.

I am not sure how big the air shocks are since I never tried them but they look bigger than the standard air shocks out there too. Definitely get all the dimensions before trying the Curnutts out.

This would be an interesting experiment though. I always wondered how these shocks would work on other frames. I found them to be very reliable and the small bump compliance wasn't as much of an issue running the Ti Spring either.

 

[IH8Rice]

I am not even sure if a Curnutt would fit due to the spring diameter. I had an FXR (Ti spring) and a Fly (steel spring) a couple years ago they were almost twice as wide as a normal spring. Even if the i2i and stroke worked out I don't think it would fit in the lower frame cradle where the link drives the shock.

I am not sure how big the air shocks are since I never tried them but they look bigger than the standard air shocks out there too. Definitely get all the dimensions before trying the Curnutts out.

This would be an interesting experiment though. I always wondered how these shocks would work on other frames. I found them to be very reliable and the small bump compliance wasn't as much of an issue running the Ti Spring either.

the air shock canister is ridiculously huge on my XTD Air and just by eying pics of the Maelstrom, it looks like it would fit, but the piggyback version would have to be used. the RS7's come with a external reservoir Air version and they dont have it in different hose lengths and or angles.

the small bump sensitivity on my DHS's coil over is a lot better than the Air, but then again, most coils should.

as much as id like to see a Curnutt on something besides a Foes, the prices for them dont justify it one bit.

 

[time-bomb]

the air shock canister is ridiculously huge on my XTD Air and just by eying pics of the Maelstrom, it looks like it would fit, but the piggyback version would have to be used. the RS7's come with a external reservoir Air version and they dont have it in different hose lengths and or angles.

the small bump sensitivity on my DHS's coil over is a lot better than the Air, but then again, most coils should.

as much as id like to see a Curnutt on something besides a Foes, the prices for them dont justify it one bit.

Just curious, do you think the coil would fit? Looking at the picture on Corsair's site (I tried to paste it but couldn't) the Swinger ISX they show is a snug fit as it passes through the frame. A potential issue I see with the air version is if the rebound knob would pass through the frame cradle as it is being compressed. If the other end fit, you would most likely run into the same issue with the air valve.

What ever the case, if you could get them to fit it would look sweet. There is something cool about really big shocks. Curnutts ramp up really nicely too. It would be very easy to make the linear suspension of that frame much more progressive.

 

[IH8Rice]

it looks like the XTD Coil might, but there might be a clearance issue at the bottom shock mount because of the Curnutt's large spring diameter. you would also have a hard time getting to the already hard to reach rebound adjustment on the shock, but the coil version with adjustable i-t-i might make it work. id rather have the rebound hidden than the XTD valve and air pressure valve

 

[HardtailHack]

I would recommend trying it with the stock Roco at first (unless you are dead set against it for some reason), I spoke with a guy this past weekend who had one and he seemed to like it a lot with that shock. Roco's are also relatively to service, I'm sure you could find someone in the region that could tune it for you.

Also, just a bit of information about the ala carte from another thread specifically about that shock:

Marzocchi is not an option, at least half of the people I ride with have either front or rear suspenion repaired under warranty, some are lucky enough to have both ends stuff up. I won't have any dramas tuning it and as long as I can get a detailed exploded diagram and oil volume I will service it myself.

 

[jonKranked]

Marzocchi is not an option, at least half of the people I ride with have either front or rear suspenion repaired under warranty, some are lucky enough to have both ends stuff up. I won't have any dramas tuning it and as long as I can get a detailed exploded diagram and oil volume I will service it myself.

You mean for the marz? You can find exploded diagrams online, as well as the bleeding manual. Also, rear shocks don't go by oil volumes the way forks do.

 

[IH8Rice]

You mean for the marz? You can find exploded diagrams online,

theres no online diagrams for the new forks, only for the 2007 and older

 

[jonKranked]

theres no online diagrams for the new forks, only for the 2007 and older

We're talking rear shocks here chief.

 

[FreshwOOd]

The Maelstrom is shipped with the Marzocchi Roco World Cup. We also offer the Elka shock as an upgrade option. Both companies have configured their shocks to work optimally on the Maelstrom. In fact, Elka uses a Dyno to assist with creating a perfect configuration. So far, both shocks have been very reliable. Remember, 2:1 leverage ratio and spring-rates around 250 pounds make the life of the shock much easier versus a typical suspension bike with 3:1 leverage ratio and 500+ spring rate.

 

[HardtailHack]

You mean for the marz? You can find exploded diagrams online, as well as the bleeding manual. Also, rear shocks don't go by oil volumes the way forks do.

Sorry, I meant for any shock, as long as I have detailed instructions I am happy to service it myself.
Also, would you recommend going straight for a Ti spring? I've heard some brands of steel spring being way of their advertised spring rate. If I find the correct rate in a steel spring what are the chances an equivalent Ti spring will be slightly off? I just really don't want to waste money buying various springs.

 

[jonKranked]

Sorry, I meant for any shock, as long as I have detailed instructions I am happy to service it myself.
Also, would you recommend going straight for a Ti spring? I've heard some brands of steel spring being way of their advertised spring rate. If I find the correct rate in a steel spring what are the chances an equivalent Ti spring will be slightly off? I just really don't want to waste money buying various springs.

When it comes to rear shocks, there aren't any drastic differences as to how they fundamentally operate (with the exception of the CCDB and its twin tube design). I learned shock tinkering on a Progressive 5th element, and was then able to apply what I learned from that shock to tinkering on my Roco.

When it comes to springs, yes, Ti springs have tighter tolerances - ie they are more likely to be closer to the weight they are labeled. I have heard most steel springs can be off by as much as 25lbs from what they are labeled.

One of the guys at Corsair said that the Elka High Tensile steel springs are much better quality than normal steel springs, and lighter too. Doubt they're as light as ti, but ti is $$$.

 

[HardtailHack]

I ordered a frame today I'm not building it up for a couple of months as I am still waiting for my custom DH hardtail frame to arrive. I'd love to say I'm keen to get on the Corsair but honestly I'm not, I love my hardtails but I also like the idea of being able to walk when I get old.

Thanks for the help people, I'll wait and see if the Elka has any dramas before I buy one.

 

[HardtailHack]

Does anyone know if the new improvements to the CCDB damping adj will be enough to allow it to work properly on a 2:1 frame?

 

[HardtailHack]

Sorry to bring this one back up, I am really keen to try a DHS-3.50 on the Maelstrom. Problem is the lightest spring AVY makes is a 300lb, I'm guessing with all my 220lb I'd need a 275lb spring.
Will any other springs out there fit?

Also what's the difference between a DHS and a MTN shock(other than needle rollers)?

 

[HardtailHack]

^^^^^^
Anybody know? I want to order a shock this week.

 

[HardtailHack]

Ordered a Stage five as it was too hard to get any info from Craig at AVY, he really seems to hate email(or me).

 

[time-bomb]

I don't know the answer to your earlier question but it doesn't matter now anyway. I am sure you will be happy w/the Elka, I have heard nothing but good things about them.

I am surprised you never heard back from Craig, did you try calling him. I have had no problem getting in touch with him lately. I have been picking his brain about having a Manitou Swinger modified by him and he has been very helpful about answering any and all my questions. I hope to have the Swinger soon and ship it off to him in the near future.

Anyway, enjoy the Elka and post up a review of how it rides when you get a chance.

 

[HardtailHack]

No, I have called Craig before and he was very helpful but because of the time difference and my work times it is a pain in the arse to have to call him if I want info.

My Elka showed up today, it is suprisingly light, there is no point in me reviewing it as I am going straight from a hardtail to this. There is nothing worse than an opinianated review from someone that knows zero about said topic.

 

[HardtailHack]

Well I went to put the shock in my frame and as my luck is, well non existent it doesn't fit. The rocker style likange setup hits on itself which worries me as when I do get the shock in there I am probably going to gt a nice clunk at top out. Also the lower shock mount holes do not line up with the holes in the frame which means that if you do try and feed the bolt through it goes in at an angle.

I am super impressed with the QC at Corsair, the frame will match my Kowa forks perfectly.

 

[slowitdown]

I am super impressed with the QC at Corsair, the frame will match my Kowa forks perfectly.

I think that quality control means a whole lot more than chi-chi bling color matching.

Maybe Corsair is like Crank Bros, all about appearance and not about performance? I submit this might be true:

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155406

Bling? yes. Performance reliability? no.

 

[fluider]

Maybe Corsair is like Crank Bros, all about appearance and not about performance? I submit this might be true:

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155406

Bling? yes. Performance reliability? no.

Man, that site is totally unreadable for me (after 11 hours in front of LCD)! What's the issue described in there? Sorry for my lazyness.

 

[HardtailHack]

I think that quality control means a whole lot more than chi-chi bling color matching.

Maybe Corsair is like Crank Bros, all about appearance and not about performance? I submit this might be true:

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155406

Bling? yes. Performance reliability? no.

That whole thread is about a pulley? No wonder companies hate us forum people so much. I know once I sort my little dramas all will be sweet but I would have preffered no dramas at all.

 

[Speedgoat9]

The Maelstrom is shipped with the Marzocchi Roco World Cup. We also offer the Elka shock as an upgrade option. Both companies have configured their shocks to work optimally on the Maelstrom. In fact, Elka uses a Dyno to assist with creating a perfect configuration. So far, both shocks have been very reliable. Remember, 2:1 leverage ratio and spring-rates around 250 pounds make the life of the shock much easier versus a typical suspension bike with 3:1 leverage ratio and 500+ spring rate.

Hardtail,

Freshwood is Doug from corsair. If he is saying they offer elka's as an oem upgrade then the shock should most certainly work. I'd talk with either doug or pablo from corsair and see what's up. Hope things work out.