[grom-dom]

i have a couple of questions for whomever can answer them for me.

1. what's your trick for drainage and stuff? i get these big shallow puddles at random places and they take a while to dry and generally sorta suck. i need all the dirt i can get so it's helpful to dig below ground like a trench etc. also, do you guys set up a big hole with gravel or something along those lines at the bottom to drain properly? what do you use to line the bottom to help it empty?

2. when bowling/pitting out between jumps, what do you do to get correct size and distance to make it accurate? just kinda etch a general area and then dig and hope it works? and what is the drainage trick for these?

3. how the hell do you build a berm? i can't for the life of me get it to work.

4. what's your fave tool for getting through large amounts of roots?

5. how much filler do y'all use in your jumps for those that do?

any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[scag]

1&2: Simple physics, water flows to the lowest area. You may just have to dig a trench off to the side and have trenches from you puddles leading to that master trench. On the positve side, If you can have the water flowing cleanly into some hole away from the jump, you'll have a great reservoir for moist dirt (hopefully clay). Just make sure leaves dont flow into that hole too, or the dirt will be useless. I would also suggest keeping the hole somewhat away from the jump so its not dangerous or ruin plans for future lines, lips, landers, etc. In the bowled out tranny, just cut into one of the walls about two feet and dig a a deep hole. Make sure its about midway throught the tranny so the water will flow to it.

3. Berms are trial and error. Just keep shaping. They usually dont come out perfect the first time. Or 2nd and 3rd for that matter. I usually dig out a trench in the shape I want the berm and throw the dirt on the outer edge. Half the work that way. Just keep trying. I've also found that the berm will start to shape itself after its ridden a bunch..even if its been packed well.

4. Roots suck. Chop hard with the spade. I use a machete for the medium stuff. Hard core limb trimmers work great for the big stuff. Chain saw is the quickest, just dont stick it in the dirt too far or it will bog up.

5. NO FILLER. I cannot stress this enough. Just take the extra day and make it solid dirt. Keep packing it with a tamper. Only use filler as a total last resort and it has to be stuff that wont bio-degrate in the current millenium i.e. a refridgerator, car motor, big stuff. Dont waste your time with little things or worst of all...sticks...They will make your life a living hell if you ever want to change the jump (which despite what you think, is inevitable if these jumps will be around a long time.) Also, sticks decompose and your jumps will turn to ****!!!

Wow, enought typing for me.

Here you can see the pit i'm talking about in deep bowled tranny's (on the left). This one is like 4 foot deep...

 

[ssk]

for cutting roots, take a flat hand file and sharpen the edge of your shovel. for big roots try a corona pruning pull saw they cut like nothing else. to remove small to medium stumps we take old saws and push into the soil and basically saw roots and dirt the whole way around the stump. pop it out with a shovel and keep on digging.

 

[grom-dom]

word. thanks dudes.

i use filler to minimize dirt used because the jumps are in my front yard. i use logs and whatever else i can find.

prob gonna bowl out like 2 or so feet before this 2nd lip.

 

[skatetokil]

For your berms, get a stick or tape measure or whatever and mark a consistent radius for the turn. Then cut down on one side and pile up on the other.

 

[sb317]

scag pretty much nailed it. I'll go out during or right after a good rain to see how things are draining just to see if I can make it any better.

 

[Cru Jones]

There's already some good info in here already. I'll try to answer #2 a little better....

We always say that the bowls should be "nike symbol" shaped. That way, you'll get the bottom of the bowl closer to the lip, which is better for building speed and converting that speed into air time. If the bowl is too "u" shaped, you'll lose too much speed while going up the lip. As far as how far apart they should be, that's more experience and preference. In general, the slower you are going, and the smaller the jumps, the closer together they can be. I've heard a general rule is to keep the bowls about twice as long as the gap of the jumps. That's an OK place to start, although I usually prefer my jumps to be tighter than that.

I know for our jumps, we're always thinking about speed. The key is to keep everything going downhill, even if you're on flat or the ground is going slightly uphill. So, that means making big landings that are steep on top, then mellow out, but continue going downhill all the way to where you want to start the next lip.

Hope that helps.

 

[cmc]

5. NO FILLER. I cannot stress this enough. Just take the extra day and make it solid dirt. Keep packing it with a tamper. Only use filler as a total last resort and it has to be stuff that wont bio-degrate in the current millenium i.e. a refridgerator, car motor, big stuff. Dont waste your time with little things or worst of all...sticks...They will make your life a living hell if you ever want to change the jump (which despite what you think, is inevitable if these jumps will be around a long time.) Also, sticks decompose and your jumps will turn to ****!!!

i see what you're saying about not using logs because they biodegrade....seems to make sense in theory. but in practice it hasn't been a problem, at least here in austin. there are a few jumps at 9th street that have been there 10+ years, they have logs in the base, and they're not collapsing--they're solid as ever. maybe it has something to do with the super hard-drying black clay we have, or that it doesn't rain as much as other parts of the country... but it really hasn't been an issue.

 

[Strauss]

don't use filler. It can become a danger issue and packing dirt is more reliable.

Kids like to throw old computers inside the jumps around here... its grotesque and they would have only saved themselves and hours worth of digging/packing.

Think of the environment! Don't put crap that can't be returned back to nature. It's not a land fill so don't use filler. Sticks and logs rot eventually.

Every jump in Ohio has a damn log or something in it. It gets annoying and pretty much makes absolutely sure nobody else is going to help maintain the jumps because they won't want to touch it for fear that it will get messed up more.

 

[WestCoastHucker]

the problem with filler that most of these kids don't realize, is that it makes your jumps infinitely weaker and that much more prone to crumbling. the problem is that the dirt doesn't bond to the filler like it does to more dirt. it ends up being a thin layer over it that seems well packed, while in fact, it is much waker because of thin spots...

simple explanation of filler in a lip -

black line - the exterior of the jump on a cross section
red line - filler
green line - weak areas now created because the filler in the jump causes thin spots

 

[Zach Dank]

black line - the exterior of the jump on a cross section
red line - filler
green line

Sweetest diagram eva!

 

[Defenestrated]

dats some tight ms paint skillz yo

 

[jonKranked]

hey for the questions about the roots... a friend made a thing that we called "stampy", but it was basically a tamper made of 1" thick plate steel that was about 10" x 10", then we took a plasma cutter and made 4 frikkin HUGE teeth in the side... roots, no problem, its even good to break through rocks up to the size of a large pineapple.

after googling... its a lot like a lamberton rake ( http://www.lambertonrake.com/ ) except ours were constructred of thicker plate steel, and had much larger teeth.

the one in the upper left corner looks closest to what we had.

 

[Cru Jones]

 

[WestCoastHucker]

...WCH on his sweet jump...

hahahaha!!! i rule....

 

[Defenestrated]

 

[grom-dom]

haha. i use logs but they're completely inside the jump. never trash or stuff. these jumps are in ym yard, so they have to look decent. the jumps around here have concrete drainage pipes for filler, they've been here for 15 years at least. so yeah. i have clay too so packing isn't a problem. capped off pvc pipe is dope, but expensive.

 

[don]

Scag covered everything with such great detail it'll be hard to add anything. But here are a few things:

- Don't use filler. If you need any more reason than WCH's diagram, I can tell you I used a small piece of wood for a lip 2 years ago. Things changed and I reshaped the lip a couple weeks ago. Sure enough found the log as I wanted the lip steeper. I'll be working on that lip for a little while longer now as I try to dig out that piece of wood.

- Drainage - I don't use any trenches but it works out like that as we have our place built into a hill. Typically a good dirt jump spot will have some slope so use it to your advantage. Like someone said go after a rain storm or better yet during some precip and see where the water is going.

- Just wanted to add - for your top coat try to get as many of those little twigs and rocks out of you dirt before you slap it on. Once things firm up and those things can drive you buggy with the final shaping or tweaking. I usually get a shovel full of dirt and pick the stuff out before it's tossed then I'll pull even more items as the "magik sheen" process is going on.

 

[sealclubber]

just like the above post mentions, filler sucks for when you want to carve away to reshape a lip a few years later, hit a log and youre fvcked, gotta dig it out and start all over

 

[cmc]

I see yall's points, but I gotta respectfully disagree.

5. NO FILLER. I cannot stress this enough. Just take the extra day and make it solid dirt. Keep packing it with a tamper. Only use filler as a total last resort and it has to be stuff that wont bio-degrate in the current millenium i.e. a refridgerator, car motor, big stuff. Dont waste your time with little things or worst of all...sticks...They will make your life a living hell if you ever want to change the jump (which despite what you think, is inevitable if these jumps will be around a long time.) Also, sticks decompose and your jumps will turn to ****!!!

If you are building a spot basically by yourself (maybe occasional help from not-very-committed diggers), it will take a lot more than "a day" to make a decently sized double purely out of dirt that you dug. How many wheelbarrow loads can you dig in a day !?

Biodegrading logs will ruin a jump is a myth. My proof is simply that every jump at very well known 9th street trails in Austin (which has been running strong for 15 years) has logs under it. None of the jumps are collapsing due to logs.

don't use filler. It can become a danger issue and packing dirt is more reliable.

Kids like to throw old computers inside the jumps around here... its grotesque and they would have only saved themselves and hours worth of digging/packing.

Think of the environment! Don't put crap that can't be returned back to nature. It's not a land fill so don't use filler. Sticks and logs rot eventually.

Every jump in Ohio has a damn log or something in it. It gets annoying and pretty much makes absolutely sure nobody else is going to help maintain the jumps because they won't want to touch it for fear that it will get messed up more.

I agree not to put trash for environmental reasons. But if every jump in Ohio has logs in it, then maybe everyone else is right and you're the one that's being so damn picky !! Ohio has had some of the best trails spots in the nation for at least a 15 yrs. Are you saying all those trailbosses didn't know wtf they were doing ??

the problem with filler that most of these kids don't realize, is that it makes your jumps infinitely weaker and that much more prone to crumbling. the problem is that the dirt doesn't bond to the filler like it does to more dirt. it ends up being a thin layer over it that seems well packed, while in fact, it is much waker because of thin spots...

All this proves is that the layer on top of the logs is too thin. That makes sense. It does not prove that you shouldn't use large solid heavy logs as a base or foundation on which to build. As for crumbling, even good packed jumps eventually dry out and crack if not maintained well. Dry cracked soil, no matter how sticky the clay was originally will break apart. That's what crumbles. Solid logs under the jump will actually support the general structure and shape of the dirt. When you case and take a huge chunk out of the top of a landing, it's DIRT that is crumbling. It's LOGS that don't crumble. Biodegradation of a log takes years. Your soil will dry out and crumble in a matter of weeks/months of neglect.

Scag covered everything with such great detail it'll be hard to add anything. But here are a few things:

- Don't use filler. If you need any more reason than WCH's diagram, I can tell you I used a small piece of wood for a lip 2 years ago. Things changed and I reshaped the lip a couple weeks ago. Sure enough found the log as I wanted the lip steeper. I'll be working on that lip for a little while longer now as I try to dig out that piece of wood.

Why not throw more dirt on instead of taking it away?

just like the above post mentions, filler sucks for when you want to carve away to reshape a lip a few years later, hit a log and youre fvcked, gotta dig it out and start all over

There again, go get a wheelbarrow and dig about 5 new loads, dump it on there, wet it appropriately if necessary and start the shaping anew. It's not my job when I build a dub from the ground up that you have an easy time of shaping it 2 years from now!!

DISCLAIMER.
This all comes from my perspective of a solo mission on buildling a new spot from the ground up. The sheer volume of dirt required to make stuff worth riding means it just makes sense to use logs as base/foundation.

 

[WestCoastHucker]

....If you are building a spot basically by yourself (maybe occasional help from not-very-committed diggers), it will take a lot more than "a day" to make a decently sized double purely out of dirt that you dug. How many wheelbarrow loads can you dig in a day !? .....

WHAT?!?!?!? you fools are straight slackers! i built this in a week(and you can see i also had a handicap of nursing a broken colarbone). all straight up dirt, no filler. not to mention i had to rope up 5 gallon water jugs and sling them over my bars to bring in water...

 

[don]

WHAT?!?!?!? you fools are straight slackers! i built this in a week(and you can see i also had a handicap of nursing a broken colarbone). all straight up dirt, no filler. not to mention i had to rope up 5 gallon water jugs and sling them over my bars to bring in water...

Jeeezz, true burliness. That's a sh!tload worth of work in one week. But if you know how to build stuff and don't fart around it can be done. Big props.

And CNC - I got that lip fixed. Got the pry bar all steel shovel and the log came out without issue. I got some fresh clay and patched it up and it looks 100x better. I couldn't just add more dirt as I wanted the lip steeper (ain't that always better?) and needed to take material off of the bottom.

I hear what you say though and have thrown logs down many a time. If there a good enough dirt source nearby I'll skip the logs - if I'm being lazy I'll throw them in. I still think all dirt is the best way if you have the patience.

 

[Stoked]

rebuilding a line at the trails. this beast has a ton of filler at the base. granted its not a lip.

 

[Strauss]

I see yall's points, but I gotta respectfully disagree.





If you are building a spot basically by yourself (maybe occasional help from not-very-committed diggers), it will take a lot more than "a day" to make a decently sized double purely out of dirt that you dug. How many wheelbarrow loads can you dig in a day !?

Biodegrading logs will ruin a jump is a myth. My proof is simply that every jump at very well known 9th street trails in Austin (which has been running strong for 15 years) has logs under it. None of the jumps are collapsing due to logs.




I agree not to put trash for environmental reasons. But if every jump in Ohio has logs in it, then maybe everyone else is right and you're the one that's being so damn picky !! Ohio has had some of the best trails spots in the nation for at least a 15 yrs. Are you saying all those trailbosses didn't know wtf they were doing ??



All this proves is that the layer on top of the logs is too thin. That makes sense. It does not prove that you shouldn't use large solid heavy logs as a base or foundation on which to build. As for crumbling, even good packed jumps eventually dry out and crack if not maintained well. Dry cracked soil, no matter how sticky the clay was originally will break apart. That's what crumbles. Solid logs under the jump will actually support the general structure and shape of the dirt. When you case and take a huge chunk out of the top of a landing, it's DIRT that is crumbling. It's LOGS that don't crumble. Biodegradation of a log takes years. Your soil will dry out and crumble in a matter of weeks/months of neglect.



Why not throw more dirt on instead of taking it away?



There again, go get a wheelbarrow and dig about 5 new loads, dump it on there, wet it appropriately if necessary and start the shaping anew. It's not my job when I build a dub from the ground up that you have an easy time of shaping it 2 years from now!!

DISCLAIMER.
This all comes from my perspective of a solo mission on buildling a new spot from the ground up. The sheer volume of dirt required to make stuff worth riding means it just makes sense to use logs as base/foundation.

In response:

The trailbosses 15 years ago DID know what they were doing. The lazy kids that have since taken over the spots *and* drastically changed the topography do not know what they are doing.

Ohio trails 10 years ago = some of the best. Ohio trails now = Trash and mostly un-maintained jumps that were half built, half carved and forgotten.

Each year the erosion on the jumps is so bad that you get to see all the 'filler' they used by the time spring hits. Nobody wants to bother with that crap so they move on to other trails/lines and let the old ones die.

 

[Cru Jones]

rebuilding a line at the trails. this beast has a ton of filler at the base. granted its not a lip.

That's rad. You should call it "draino."

 

[Defenestrated]

go too slow and you end up in the drink

 

[t1maglio]

I guess at this point its a pointless arguement. If you are ok with building your jumps with stuff in them, realizing at some point if you have to rebuild you will have to deal with digging the stuff out, do it.

If you have the extra dirt, don't mind the whole thing taking a little extra time, and want to get the "ok" from the guys on here, well, do 'em solid dirt.

Me, if I'm digging solo and I have some logs at my disposal I will use them, its honestly not that big of a deal to move a log compared to moving a ton of dirt. With enough cover over the logs you won't have them poking out. Its all in how you do it, and I can imagine there are some pretty poor set-ups, but when done right I've never had issues (and I've built both ways, fill and no fill).

Go build some jumps, man.

 

[don]

rebuilding a line at the trails. this beast has a ton of filler at the base. granted its not a lip.

Holy Sh1t!! That's a beauty. The other local at our spot was talking something similiar to that. I'll have to forward him some pics to get him some motivation. Charlie and I need to get up there this summer - your spot is looking amazing.

And filler for berms ain't that big of a thing. I actually throw whatever dirt I can find on berms. They eventually get worn in.

 

[grom-dom]

i'd f*ck that thing stoked. nice shovel work. i'm slowly trying to figure out berm building. it's hard